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I will always have a certain amount of shame attached to my A. And I think that's ok. It's not debilitating. It's that shame, the shame of hurting someone I love, the embarrassment of who I had become that stops me from ever behaving like that again. That shame is healthy. But if you let it control your life or define who you are, well that shame is unhealthy.

It's my belief, that the more you own your behaviors, the more you learn to accept them, the debilitating that shame becomes.

Yes!!!

Darkeness,

I can relate...

I believe I am rightfully ashamed of my behavior, what I did was shameful. Fucking an OM in my husband's house was shameful. Lying to my husband about where I was going and what I was doing so I could fuck a man other than my husband was shameful. I was absolutely acting like the sluttiest of sluts during my affair.

I would meet my OM in the parking lot and fuck in the backseat of his car. WTF was I thinking...oh yeah right, I wasn't. I didn't feel that it was wrong at the time. I thought I was in love with him and he with me and just wanted sex. I feel so dirty now and have a very hard time looking myself in the mirror. My BH called me a slut and a whore...slut rightfully so...wish I would have gotten money out of it so the whore thing would be accurate...Just the way I feel...

Thank you for introducing this thread.

It seems I'm on the other side of this. Growing up, sex was definitely discouraged. Sexiness was frowned upon. "If you dress provocatively, you will encourage men to think about sex. It's sinful." Marital sex was hinted at, but never talked about. Mom taught us the "mechanics" of sex, but even as I neared my own wedding, she didn't ever mention how to lose myself in my husband sexually (or otherwise). Even thoughts of sex were shameful. It used to be that when I finished masturbating, I would lay with my arms over my head, as far away from my ___ as I could get them. (Nowadays, I don't really masturbate unless it's with my Husband.) My affair cracked me out of my shell. Since DDay, I have found my kink with my husband. I have realized that sex is good and fun and we can do whatever we want because we are consenting adults. I am much more "slutty" now than I ever even allowed myself to think about before. And, of course, this is one of those many things that I could have figured out without Hurricane Affair.

This does not by any stretch minimize the Shame I feel for the way I behaved during my Affair. Giving myself to someone else was the most despicable thing I've ever chosen to do. The Shame is what makes it difficult to talk about. I think I'm getting to where I can set the Shame aside to discuss my actions, but damn, it sucks.

^^^Hurricane Affair^^^ Great description!

I also have been called whore and slut by my BH, among other things. It hurts to be called those things by the one who loves me most. I think, in his anger, he was trying to cause me some of the huge amount of pain he was experiencing. Not that I think it's ok for him to call me these things, but I can understand why he would do it. I agree that I did things that were slutty and whorish, but I refuse to let those words define me. I did things that were totally outside of my character, so that period of my life does not dictate who I am or who I will be. I truly believe that I'm a good person that made a series of bad choices based on poor coping skills. Yes, I am ashamed of my behavior, and will continue to be. This shame is how I will prevent history from repeating itself, and how I will be able to continue to work through all of my issues and become a better person.

On a separate but related subject, some of you ladies have mentioned that women have more stigma then men placed on them when it comes to sexual issues. Do you ladies think that, because of this stigma, men have a harder time reconciling after their wife has been unfaithful, then a woman has reconciling after her husband has been unfaithful?

[This message edited by ChanceToChange at 8:22 AM, March 10th (Tuesday)]

Do you ladies think that, because of this stigma, men have a harder time reconciling after their wife has been unfaithful, then a woman has reconciling after her husband has been unfaithful?

Yes. Think about it this way... If a man cheats, it's because he's a pig. If a woman cheats, it's because he's a pig.

ETA: The views expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the SI community, founders, or the OP. In the wider world, however, this attitude is alive and well. Imagine what The Good Wife would be like if she were the cheating politician and he had to deal with the aftermath? That male character would have been written as a total prick, no matter how much of a nasty bitch she was. She would still be the more "sympathetic" of the two characters. (We don't watch that show anymore, BTW.)

[This message edited by Neznayou at 9:43 AM, March 10th, 2015 (Tuesday)]

How long does it take for Adult Reason to override FOO Bullshit? My Husband tried so hard to get me to open up and throw myself into him, but I had these deeply engrained FOO lessons which made it impossible to be authentic. (My emotional wall was so well built that I could take you to the hardware store and show you the building materials.) I am 42 this year. Our wedding was 21 years ago. How did 19 years with my parents hold on so stubbornly?

After thinking a lot about what I posted yesterday and the slut-shaming of women:

I don't think my self-shame is because I was attracted to the OM and wanted to fuck him again. It's that I was married and therefore lied and sneaked to do it. That is the shame. Not the biological power of attraction.

If a man cheats, it's because he's a pig. If a woman cheats, it's because he's a pig.

I think if a man cheats, it's because he's a pig. If a woman cheats, it's because she's damaged. I should clarify that that's not what I believe, but I feel that it's a societal view. It seems as though it's easier for people to wrap their minds around a man who has an affair for sex, but for a woman there has to be something much deeper, much more pathological going on for her to want the same.

I don't think my self-shame is because I was attracted to the OM and wanted to fuck him again. It's that I was married and therefore lied and sneaked to do it. That is the shame. Not the biological power of attraction.

Excellent!!! THIS is the point I was trying to make yesterday. Yes, there is shame for the hurt we caused, the fact that we did what we did while in committed relationships. But somehow we need to separate the infidelity shame from the sex shame. The "whore" aspect of what we did has to come out of the conversation. We had sex. That isn't wrong. We were unfaithful to our partners and that is very, very wrong.

I get the shame. I really do. I understand looking in the mirror and not liking who you see looking back at you - even hating the reflection. I get wanting to wash away every last dirty thing you did. I get wanting to hide, even wanting to die. I get feeling unlovable and unworthy. I get hating yourself for how you've hurt others. I know what all that feels like. I fight it every single day.

But I've read your stories....everyone's stories. I've poured over every word you've shared, the pain, the humiliation, the embarrassment and what I see isn't shameful. I don't see any of you as dirty or a whore or a slut. I see you as beautiful, strong, scared, and brave. You, like me, got yourself into situations that became so much more than you ever intended them to be. It spiraled and only in hindsight could you see the damage left in it's wake. You made mistakes, you stumbled, you fell, you hurt others, you hurt yourself. And now you're picking up yourselves and the pieces of your life fighting like hell to make up for the destruction and hurt you've caused. You are anything but broken. You're courageous.

Chin up.

Is there any way the stop sign can be taken off this so MH can post?

I think every one of us exchanged sex for "currency"

I'm conflicted on this. I think it's too simplistic that all women want is emotional kibble and men just want physical. At different times during my A I wanted, and gave both. Women can enjoy sex as much as men and there's no shame in that. The shame for me is rooted in my ability to compartmentalize during my A. That I was able to separate myself from the feelings and needs of my H and children for such a long period of time. Now I understand why I did it, the path that got me there, but still... HOW? I see this as a permanent character flaw and something I will always feel bad about. Not sure I even want to get over that.

Is there any way the stop sign can be taken off this so MH can post?

However, if we do this a BS could post. We want this thread closed off from them, right? I do feel bad MH WW can't post though.

MADHATTERS: Please post from the Wayward perspective only.

Thank you!

I think it's too simplistic that all women want is emotional kibble and men just want physical.

ITA. Of my two APs, one was over the top with ego kibble, I was the most intelligent and amazing person he'd ever met, so beautiful, blah blah. And I was pretty "meh" about him. But I was way more into the other one, who was more aloof and (in retrospect) put in the minimal effort to get me to put out. Sure, the emotional part was important, but I never said ILY (even though they both did), and I was mostly pursuing the PA.

That said, generalizations exist for a reason. My unscientific analysis of anecdotal evidence from SI indicates that WW are more likely to get stuck in "the fog" and have tougher, longer withdrawal periods than WH. FWIW. YMMV.

ETA: In any case, I believe some form of currency is exchanged in every A.

How long does it take for Adult Reason to override FOO Bullshit?

Approximately 16 months of weekly IC. For me it wasn't so much FOO as CSA trauma. In June 2013, when I started IC, I was nearly 100% governed by my CSA damage, with a side of FOO influence. Now IMHO I act rationally about...80% of the time. One year hence, though, I may evaluate March 2015 as nearer to 50/50.

[This message edited by 20WrongsVs1 at 1:11 PM, March 10th, 2015 (Tuesday)]

Thank you mods!!!

You know, I was called those names a couple times. It WAS who I used to be. It is no longer. It doesn't bother me that I was called that.

I have shame that I didn't protect myself (from affair and sexual assault), and I didn't see what men wanted for what it was. I thought people looked out for each other. I was wrong on so many accounts, including looking out for myself. It turns out values need to be very deliberate, not casual thoughts or actions.

It turns out values need to be very deliberate, not casual thoughts or actions.

This really hits me hard. It is probably the biggest lesson I've learned in all of this.

Neznayou I'm right there with you. XBH tried for years to pull me away from toxic FOO, and to trust in him. but my brain asked for an explosion.

I felt so dirty after my ONS. Ex bs I think called me a slut one time. Im sure I deserved it but I dont think im a slut. I am trying really hard to forgive myself but I cant get there. He didnt why should I forgive myself???

Wayflost, I used to tell people that I grew up in the Cleaver family - no arguing, no fighting, mild upset easily smoothed over, everyone was happy. It's been very recently that I've begun to see the toxicity for what it is. I like living in another continent! Except I do miss my sister and brother. We were all subjected to the same Pollyanna family.

MADHATTERS: Please post from the Wayward perspective only.

Great!!! Glad all the MH ladies can join us!

Thanks for removing the stop sign - I'm officially a MH, even though it's not in my profile (as somehow I don't feel like one...)

I guess being called a slut and a whore isn't something that WHs can really be called. Well they can, but for a woman those words really hurt deeply. My BH did use those words right at the beginning, but my shame doesn't come from the sex itself. It comes from the lying and the hurting BH and the whole actual having an affair altogether!