SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AH

If you are feelling ambivalente about D or R, would be a good idea to ask your self what would It take for you to be open to R? Not succed in R, just to give it a try.

What would It take from your side?

What would It take from your WW side?

Then make a list

On your side, analyse each point and think if you can do it.

On your WW side, just ask her. You have nothing to lose for asking.

Just remember, cheaters lie. As others have stated, all you need to know about the A must be validated by a Poly. By just askig her to take it, you can assess her reaction and see if she is still liying.

Last thing, she Will say all the rigth things, dont trust a word she says!She Will need to prove her statement by actions. If she agrees to take a Poly, go for It!! She may be just trying to look honest.

The problem is that personal change, REAL change, can only really be demonstrated over time. There has not been enough time since all of this began to really know if she has changed and is now remorseful or if she’s simply trying to hold onto her old life.

If you divorce and she is still trying, still showing that she’s making this effort then R might be possible, but I think that without D, you’ll wonder if it’s her life she’s trying to hold onto - rather than you.

D does not preclude the option to R, if both sides want it and agree it is worth the effort to start over again.

AH,

So many counselling reconciliation. You will gain nothing from this course aside from additional misery. You have not and would not treat your wife as poorly as she has treated you.

Consider the following. If you choose to divorce her you don't really lose her. Why? You lost her six years ago. If not then certainly within the last 2 years when she all but in name made another man her husband. As others have suggested, after divorce you can entertain any effort she makes to win you back and forge a new relationship. At this moment there is only one person that stands to lose more than the other - your wife. Why does she want to keep a marriage that she spend the last 2 years shitting on? One she was actively planning to leave for the other man. Why does she want to keep a marriage that she likely checked out of 6 years ago? Entertain any excuse you like to answer this but why weren't these excuses enough to keep her honest and invested before she cheated? Example - she doesn't want to break up the family. She decided to do that anyway the last 2 years when she was planning to monkey branch to the millionaire. Do as I say, not as I do. It is only bad if someone other than your wife does it, like you for example. She planned to leave you for the AP and she was fine, she could justify it even with the affair and live with it. She can't accept that you are leaving because she cheated and defiled the marriage for 2 years. That's not reason enough to end the marriage in her mind.

You have more to gain leaving than staying. Don't let fear of the unknown steer your course. Here is what you do know. You grew apart 6 years ago. Maybe your own issue was one of complacency and an inability to communicate. Still doesn't justify her decision to cheat. For 2 years if not the entire 6 she had left the marriage and lived life as a single woman. She has disrespected you in the worst way possible for the last 2 years without a second thought about anyone but herself. You may place value on all the years you have spent with her before the last 2 or 6, but all those years meant very little to her. She threw them away quick enough when she started up with the AP.

You can find many examples on this forum and others where a betrayed husband later regretted giving the gift of reconciliation to a cheating wife. Either he couldn't forgive, recognized the wife wasn't really invested in the recovery or most common she never stopped cheating or started up again. You won't find many if any examples where a betrayed husband regretted divorcing his cheating wife.

Your wife wants a second chance that frankly she doesn't deserve. What has she done to even earn such a gift? She has done nothing that other cheaters before her have not done. She has tried to shift blame and minimize all the harm she has inflicted. She has claimed as your wife she is owed the gift of reconciliation. Do you think that she would have considered for even a minute reconciling with you if nothing had derailed her plans to leave you and marry her rich AP? You would not have been given a second chance. She would have laughed in your face and closed the door.

Her actions, not her words have shown you who you have been married to and who you are dealing with now. She has shown you who she really is as a person. Believe her. Otherwise you will very likely find yourself repeating this terrible experience.

It's not inconsistent to love and forgive - but to divorce.

Everyone is different. Some process betrayal better with the finality/closure of divorce before considering a new marriage between (as you said) two now different people.

Ask for two timelines covering the last 6 years (subject to a polygraph(s)).

One general and the other very detailed.

You can set the detailed version aside for now but it's there when/if you need it.

lot to respond to but let's start with this from Waggingthedog

I have never done this before, but I think I know where you are coming from as I’ve been where you are. My guess is that you’re flailing around for a plan for the next few months or year.

Right now, you feel a horrible depression and a lot of pressure to make a decision. The issue is that you might not be in a mental place where you feel comfortable making a life altering decision. There are a lot of things clawing at your mind right now. You feel betrayed (duh), you feel emasculated (who wouldn’t), you feel scared (it’s natural, but hard to admit), you feel like you want to run back to what’s safe, but what would normally be safe isn’t safe anymore. You want to make the ‘right’ decision but you don’t know what that decision is now.

That’s OK. It’s natural. We’ve all been there.

If you’re like me, then you’re looking at statistics, stories and some other clear blueprint to determine a course forward. There’s the kneejerk reaction – she cheats then you leave. That’s what society expects. It’s what you ‘should’ do, and so that feels natural and you’re pulled there. On the other hand, you still feel that love for her that you have just found out isn’t nearly as deep on her end as you thought it was for the last several years.

What to do?

It’s OK to say to yourself that you’re not ready to make a final decision on the relationship right now. You may be prepared to make a decision on the marriage contract, but that depends on what is in your best interest.

You have the permission to be selfish now.

Seriously, you have that permission. Everyone gives it to you. You should give it to you too.

this is describes exactly how I feel, i couldn't write it myself with this accuracy. You are reading my thoughts Waggingthedog and you are right I have other options other than an immediate jump on D or R. I will update you when it is appropriate but we are negotiating an agreement that hopefully will be acceptable for for both of us.

So AHguy, this is what you need to answer for yourself. WHATEVER your wife does to "make up" for her actions... Can you eventually accept sharing your life with her, trusting her, living with the triggers like on the boat, rekindling a physical relationship with her after she gave everything to another man who she planned to run off with?

can you believe that I can't answer your question with confidence? I don't know.

AH,

I’m sorry if you stated this already.

I know that you have said many times that you are going to divorce the cheater. But has she been served yet? If not, when is that going to happen?

No she hasn't been served. my plan was never to serve her because I wanted a Consensual D which requires a terms agreement, the problem we never sat down or proposed nay agreement other than few talks. Initially I kept the option of serving her on the ground of adultery as last resort if we can't agree on a consensual but now there is a 3rd option that just came up it was suggested by one of the members her via a private message. I won't say his name unless he wants me to, this gentlemen has helped me so much in so many ways privately. I will give an update as soon as I can.

we have mentioned the need for a polygraph, some of us have told you repeatedly to sit her down and ask her these "tough questions", the "stick your head in the sand" approach NEVER works, so again, whether you ultimately decide to D or R, it's best you make that an informed decision with as much info as possible, so I suggest you sit her down (don't do it by email/text) and ask her at least ask her these questions (of course you may add you own set):

I'm not ignoring you Buster123, you have mentioned this many times others too. let me explain, I do want to know everything don't get me wrong. but at first I wasn't in state of mind to want to talk to her at all,now I just couldn't find an appropriate circumstances to ask her those question, how can bring it up while I'm discussing the possibility of separation and D, hey I want you to agree on a separation and by the way tell me how many times you slept with him, it just doesn't seem to me to be appropriate.

Once i get a chance I will ask all of those question and maybe even ask for a timeline like many here have suggested. I'm not ignoring you Buster i actually appreciate your time and efforts.

Thanks Hellfire. That is a list and is some things for AHG to answer if he wants. I don't think we know about any of those things from what he's posted so far so hard to say if she has done much beyond the email, the offer to quit and reading some books.

sure let me try to answer hellfire's questions the best I can.

Has she been tested for stds? Has he seen the results from the doctor?

yes she said she did, no I did not see them personally but my daughter did and apparently she still hasn't got all the results she is still waiting on something.

Has she told him she will answer all of his questions, for as long as he needs to ask them?

She said she would do anything so I assume answering questions should be one of them.

Since she says she has been reading about how to heal from this, has she said she knows it will take years to heal?

I don't know the answer to that, but I know the her pastor told her that the process would take time, also the elderly couple from the church mentioned something like that when they came to out house.

Has she given him full transparency? Does he have passwords for everything?

She is willing to do that.

Has she run a recovery on her phone,and given him a printout of all messages and pics?

Has she scheduled, or taken a polygraph?

Is she in IC?

Has she stopped blaming her journey away from God for her behavior?

No to all these question, however she does want to start IC and was hoping I join her to an MC with pastor.

What is she doing to work on her anger and defensiveness?

Has she been digging deep to figure out why she really cheated?

I have no idea, I guess an IC could help

I believe the greatest hurt your wife is dealing with is the blow delivered by her AP when he said that she was only a cheap piece of ____.

I don't know if it is the greatest but I'm pretty sure it was a big blow. I wish i could clearly hear what she was saying at that time he had her on Bluetooth but wasn't clear. in a way it was strange and funny how he flipped in a second from trying to defend him self to attacking her with no warning. he must have no control of his temper.

[This message edited by AHGuy at 8:01 AM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

Just strength to you.

Buffer

Even if she is the scum of the earth ( not saying she is ) that still doesnt mean you have to D her ; but as others have mentioned see her for who she is and then decide whats best for your sanity

Read her letters to the OM again , juxtapose them with what she wrote to you . . Just make sure you completely understand the trick.

“Hello om im dying to sleep with you and run away with you because my husband is so useless , in his defense he does know how to fix heaters “

“ hello AH G i love you so much but you have to stop vacationing in canada“

“ hello om i would love to take some naked pics for you today how about 5 pm. Lets talk more about our upcoming divorce plans. I only love you “

“ dear AHG i love you but you make me cheat on you “

“ hello om i hate florida i will not have sex with my husband because im loyal to you . Hahha hilarious . I only love you“

OM has a message for your wife at this point

“ you were nothing to me but cheap ass “

“ dear Ahg the only thing more flawless than you is my eternal love for you. I never loved that other guy . When i say i love people that is really contingent on what i want except when its completely true and you have to take my word for when that is

Also I do love this house and im keeping it no matter what . Ok? . Now lets focus on how you can forgive me. . “

R or D get a lawyer get a therapist get the truth and finally please SEE the truth about her ; if you can love her despite seeing her for who she is then more power to you and hopefully years after therapy she can one day be the wife you deserve

[This message edited by siracha at 12:37 PM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

AH. Your post re the poly is spot on.

She said she would do anything so I assume answering questions should be one of them

Don't assume. Lots of wayward say they will do anything to reconcile. And, the truth is, they mean anything they want to do not anything the bs needs.

And, respectfully,a pastor may mean well,but they are not equipped to counsel a wayward wife, or a couple going through the infidelity aftermath. Heck,many therapists aren't equipped. Many don't believe in transparency, and tell a bs they don't get to answer questions. Which is why a BS needs to vet the MC.

however she does want to start IC and was hoping I join her to an MC with pastor.

Yes to the IC, no to MC with the pastor. All the pastor will do is gloss over her affair, blame you for her desire to have an affair, and then guilt you into staying with her. Pastors are not qualified to counsel couples.

And if she does do IC, it should be with a fully licensed therapist who is pro-marriage and who will hold her feet to the fire.

I just couldn't find an appropriate circumstances to ask her those question, how can bring it up while I'm discussing the possibility of separation and D, hey I want you to agree on a separation and by the way tell me how many times you slept with him, it just doesn't seem to me to be appropriate.

I understand what you're saying but I think that precisely because you want to get to a separation agreement or D, by you asking these questions she will think that there's a slight chance that she could eventually R with you even after D, and therefore be more cooperative and flexible during the separation or D process.

As to the "appropriate circumstances" and how to bring it up, let me tell you that after a 2 year LTA it doesn't matter much, if she's remorseful and "Jesus is back at the steering wheel of her life" like she now claims, the time or circumstance should not matter, just tell her you would like to talk and that you have some questions and set up a time, I understand that at first you were in shock but I think after your Dad told you to face the situation you seem to be in a "better" state of mind and with the courage to ask these tough questions.

Again you're trying to make a life altering decision, make that an informed decision and remember I'm not just talking about the 2 year LTA but from the time she started acting weird with many GNOs "5-6 years ago".

AH

Make sure they test the blood for the herpes antibodies. You have to ask for it as most Dr don't check for it as 1 in 6 people have HSV2 (genital herpes) and 1 in 4 have HSV1 (coldsores) and you can get either one in either place. Also since there's no cure and it isn't life threatening my experience is that they look at it as if it's just a reoccurring rash or skin disease. Many people are asymptomatic and don't know they have it. After years they can have a outbreak. It would be best if she were to be tested as it would have been in her system longer to develop the antibodies. If after the D you marry a younger women who wants children and you have it you could transmit it to her. During child birth she could transmit it to the baby who could be blinded and even dye

AH

Make sure they test the blood for the herpes antibodies. You have to ask for it as most Dr don't check for it as 1 in 6 people have HSV2 (genital herpes) and 1 in 4 have HSV1 (coldsores) and you can get either one in either place. Also since there's no cure and it isn't life threatening my experience is that they look at it as if it's just a reoccurring rash or skin disease. Many people are asymptomatic and don't know they have it. After years they can have a outbreak. It would be best if she were to be tested as it would have been in her system longer to develop the antibodies. If after the D you marry a younger women who wants children and you have it you could transmit it to her. During child birth she could transmit it to the baby who could be blinded and even die.

I hate typing in this phone!

My 2 cents, why not ask WW a few questions and tell hew she will have to take a poly after.

1. Is this your only sexual contact with another man besides me

2. Were you going to leave me

3. Was the furnace hook up set up ahead of time.

That should tell you if you were plan b and if she is now

Telling the truth

Was the furnace hook up set up ahead of time.

It doesn’t matter much imo if it was set up Ahead of time tho that certainly makes it worse.

Just the way it played out makes it bad enough

Just setting the record straight: According to what AHGuy knows the furnace/heater repair was a complete set up. The way it went down speaks VOLUMES about the kind of person his WW is.

Correct me if I'm wrong AHGuy, but here's what you've told us:

1. Your wife and Mr. Millionaire wanted to have sex there prior to you fixing heater, but it was too cold.

2. So your WW arranged for you to travel at least one state over and fix the heater a few days after their first liaison attempt at the cabin (I'm assuming West Virginia).

3. She arranged it so YOU drove her to the cabin. So she had you act as her chauffeur to the fuckpad as well.

4. Then you fixed the heater.

5. Then she managed to convince you a co-worker was going to give her a ride back.

6. The AP was waiting for you to leave.

7. They texted about it, she gave him the all clear, and they joked at your expense and the AP talked about how he was grateful to you for fixing the heater so the AP could screw her like the real man she deserved.

8. And she laughed about it.

9. And they had sex.

Accurate?

It doesn’t matter much imo if it was set up Ahead of time tho that certainly makes it worse.

Just the way it played out makes it bad enough

It will tell AH if she is still lying

Correct me if I'm wrong AHGuy, but here's what you've told us:

1. Your wife and Mr. Millionaire wanted to have sex there prior to you fixing heater, but it was too cold.

2. So your WW arranged for you to travel at least one state over and fix the heater a few days after their first liaison attempt at the cabin (I'm assuming West Virginia).

3. She arranged it so YOU drove her to the cabin. So she had you act as her chauffeur to the fuckpad as well.

4. Then you fixed the heater.

5. Then she managed to convince you a co-worker was going to give her a ride back.

6. The AP was waiting for you to leave.

7. They texted about it, she gave him the all clear, and they joked at your expense and the AP talked about how he was grateful to you for fixing the heater so the AP could screw her like the real man she deserved.

8. And she laughed about it.

9. And they had sex.

What I know for sure is that he was in the same town the same day and time based on a message he sent. I also know that she had a house she was preparing for sell with her colleague D few miles away. I didn’t want to go there nor could send the only guy I trust with service calls. She convinced me that he is a valuable costumer and that I could charge extra for repairs or replacement if needed. She also said that since she has work in that town the same day she would ride with me. It was just a flame sensor that went bad I fixed it in less than 5 minutes, I was supposed to take her And drop her at the property where she would meet her colleague D, she told me that D was on her way and that I could leave. I found out that she was texting with him maybe as soon as I left or maybe when I was still getting my stuff out. She told him heater is fixed and that I was charging him $500 he told her I deserved $5 million for bringing her to him and that I’m a good husband for making sure my wife will be warm and cozy while having sex with him the right way. Or something like that.

Her explanation is that she didn’t mean to cuckold me she didn’t even think about it. She said that I did all of his HVAC work and that wasn’t any different. She claims that they didn’t have sex that day