SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t think she had seriously considered divorce as a final outcome.

AmbivalentOne

You would think that being a dependable nice guy that loves his wife would make the marriage stronger (i.e. less likely to have an affair). With certain people it can make it more likely.

They think that they are working with a net. First, they will never be caught because their spouse trusts them so much. Second, if they are caught their spouse will never divorce them. All they have to do is say the right things and it will blow over.

A1

Good job! I believe you are taking the rigth steps, no Matter if D or R.

What are your plana for Christmas ?

If you havent I would suggest yo not read what your Wife hace you about her terapy before discussing It in IC. Also not al IC are good and give very bad advise.

Good luck

Wow. Great job!

She took the mention of D pretty hard. Said she couldn’t imagine that happening

Wow. What a world she must live in. I wonder what color the sky is in her reality?

After a 9 year affiar that she did not end. After all she did, wrote, and lied about. 18+ years.

And the idea that all of that could result in a divorce is beyond her comprehension? Even after all that therapy you paid for?

She was hurt when I wouldn’t hug her or say I love you back

.

I bet. Must have hurt real bad. Almost as bad as when her lover died.

Still a Wayward. Still selfish. Still wanting what is best for her.

You are doing great. Stay NC as much as possible. Keep her at a distance. Let this year of Seperation be about you. A time for you to figure out what you want.

My heart goes out to you. This is a truly confusing, emotionally exhausting time.

One of my prior concerns with a formal separation/ property settlement approach so soon is that it pulls a post-nup off the table. This is an alternate approach that can sometimes work well. There are downsides too, and how well they work can depend on state law. But a well-crafted post-nup can provide financial protection should the marriage later fail, with less drama than a separation agreement. Unlike a separation agreements, which feels like (and is) the first step towards divorce, a post-nup feels different emotionally. There could be less fighting over the contents. In my state (also in the mid-Atlantic), they can work well and can be enforced (if your lawyer is good at them).

The other concern I had with an early formal agreement is the prospect of spousal support. If you’ve been married for more than 20 years, and your wife doesn’t work, then you may be facing lifetime spousal support at a fairly high level. If you hadn’t formalized the agreement now, and encouraged her to find a job in the interim (as you sorted through your emotions), she may have been willing to do so. In other words, without the immediate formal separation, you had some leverage and say in what your wife does. But you no longer have that, unfortunately. Her lawyer will most likely encourage her to refuse to work to protect herself and maximize her support payments. Any decent lawyer would do so.

Separation and divorce are business transactions and change the dynamics. If she retains a lawyer and fights back, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she doesn’t love you or wouldn’t be fully committed to a reconciliation should it be offered. But she’ll need to financially protect herself, just like you. Any good lawyer will encourage her to do so, along with family and friends. I sincerely hope that this doesn’t inadvertently push you both towards divorce unless it’s what you truly want.

In the end, the only one who has to live with the outcome is you. Please don’t let anyone in JFO push you in any direction. You aren’t actively in infidelity, so you have options, including pulling back and taking your time.

I also strongly encourage you to post something in the divorce / Separation section of SI. You’ll gain access to advice you may not see here, eg the notion of post-nups and the ins and outs of spousal support.

I second hpv50‘s suggestion and think you should read that post very carefully.

Earlier on you said that there had been no decision made on divorce but now it sounds like it’s the course you are set on.

Your biggest advantage is TIME. USE IT!

With as impartial a mind as you can have then look at your attorneys and CPA’s separation suggestion and think: “Is it fair? Will it be fair in court?”

If I was your WW brother I would probably spend about 6 hours chewing her out for her stupidity, but then 60 hours ensuring she got a fair deal out of the separation (and therefore likely divorce) settlement. I would DEFINITELY tell her to counter the first offer. Like hpv50 says: it’s a business transaction and hasn’t got anything at all to do with emotions.

Look at valuations. Like your family home – is it a fair valuation? I have a degree in advanced finances; I could convincingly argue that a dollar was really valued at 90 cents. I could also convincingly argue it’s worth a buck ten. Is the valuation based on property-tax value? Market value? Evaluation by an impartial relator? How about savings; present value? Payout value? Future value?

You could use time to change the dynamics of your assets/debts to portray something that is more to your advantage.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING SHORT-CHANGING HER!

But could nudge figures to your advantage. Want the family-home? Rather than a slime-ball low valuation then a convincing and believable lower-fair one. The car she takes? The newest most expensive at top-market valuation… things like that.

MAYBE – just MAYBE – a post-nup with a fixed one-time-buyout would be a better idea. To sweeten it the post-nup might even have a limited lifetime (apply for the next 5 years). That way the separation agreement might be limited to contact and living arrangements as well as to establish a separation date, but the actual divorce settled by a post-nup per se.

I think A1 has handled this disaster very well so i don't understand the concern about people here pushing him in any direction. He hasn't allowed anyone to do that yet.

A1, I am sorry that your WW lacks understanding of the gravity of her actions. I truly think you have a gameplan and direction at this point and I applaud you fo r that and your ability to process what all posters are saying here, despite being told at times who to listen to or not

You handled yesterdays situation well as most would have lost it.

I hope you get your elk

I understand that the concept of support has to be frustrating considering the fact that she abused her role as a SAHM to facilitate a brutal affair and now you are paying for her sins in more ways than one. You are a s successful person and i am sure you will get the ending result that you seek

Western;

Could you elaborate on this:

I think A1 has handled this disaster very well so i don't understand the concern about people here pushing him in any direction.

Anybody pushing him in a direction?

There are 3 post congratulating him for wise decisions.

There are 2 posts that seem to focus on how bad his wife is.

There are 3 posts suggesting strategies for how to carry on with the separation/divorce.

What "direction" are you refering to?

Bigger,

HPV50 above said this

"Please don’t let anyone in JFO push you in any direction".

I was emphasizing that I don't think that's an issue and stating an opinion isn't always 'pushing him'. That's what these forums are for, letting posters know what each one of us think.

And yes, I stand by the fact that I feel he has handled this situation well. If any other poster disagrees with this, I would like to know what is inaccurate about that statement. Regarding his wife, we are on an infidelity board and yes, her affair was one of the most intense and worst cases of betrayal I have seen here over the last 2 plus years. So there will be some criticism and I think OP recognizes this and has tolerated it well.

Maybe someone needs to define what 'pushing' means in reference to this thread

And I say all of this respectfully of course.

Considering the level of betrayal, I think the posters on this thread have been quite tame

[This message edited by Western at 7:29 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

A1, thanks for the update. In my opinion, you’re still handling this very well; you’ve set your course, but kept as many options as possible available to you. Legally, I wonder if it is possible to offer a post-nup and remain separated (to keep the clock ticking on the 1-year requirement should you decide to D). Perhaps that is a question for your lawyers.

I imagine it was frustrating to hear your WW express disbelief at the thought of D. I admit her statement, along with her dismay at not hugging or replying to ILY, took me by surprise. However, it is consistent with my earlier impression that she is only beginning to understand what she has done. The hard part in your situation will be that she’s had so long to reconcile the A with herself, and on her own terms, that she seems to be overlooking that R is a two party project. It almost seems like she’s thinking, “I’ve forgiven myself, why can’t he?!?” That suggest to me that her IC work did not address the wayward mindset which includes the selfishness she identified as the root cause of the affair. Despite her “work” I question whether she is a safe partner and thus a candidate for R.

A1,

Did she state what she is planning on doing ?

Staying away ? Staying with sister ?

Does it look like she's been taking care of herself ?

I think that his actions show significant wisdom. He is 100% in control of the situation, he understands he has some decisions to make and has bought himself a year to make these decisions.

All of these legal queries that are being put out there are certainly material but at the same time he has access to qualified legal representation which can offer him guidance. Further, what’s some money at the end of the day. It’s inportant but for now it’s not - we are centered around how to get A1 into the mental, legal and logistical state to make some important decisions. He’s getting there quickly because of him taking definitive action. If he wasn’t he’d be a shell of a man in a rough spot, one only has to browse through a few threads here to see what that course of action achieves

A1,

You're in complete control.

That's what surviving infidelity is all about.

has bought himself a year to make these decisions.

By offering a legally binding separation agreement that addresses division of assets he hasn’t bought himself a year. He has placed the first offer that the possible dissolvement of the marriage might be based on. Due to its formality, it must be air-tight.

This first offer might be made by a CPA and an attorney, but they are AO CPA and attorney. WW can choose to accept or counter and she would be a world-class fool not to get legal advice. Maybe she is and if so then great for AO. But I wouldn’t be surprised of a counter and then we can expect a drawn-out and expensive process.

The alternative is to take time to make sure the offer is fair and well argued. Or do a separation agreement that addresses finances for now as well as formalize the separation, but allow for the year (use the time!) before filing formally and then doing the math.

Or do a post-nup based on the present numbers but focusing on what AO wants out of the divorce.

It’s just different paths to the same destination. That’s all.

I don’t get what the “burn-the-witch” crowd are so huffed up on. I think both hpv50 and I are offering advice geared to a good settlement for AO. I don’t think cheering someone on and congratulating him for driving straight is a clever idea if there might be a precipice ahead.

He's not driving straight towards a cliff. Every move by A1 has been calculated and analytical in nature.

Some here, including I have applauded him because in my life, I have seen people fall apart or make catastrophic decisions based on conditions not as severe.

We are all supporting him, just in different ways.

There are risks, benefits and detriments whichever way he goes. I just wonder how many in the 'pro-R' crowd would reconcile if they faced the same situation as A1. I would suggest very few IMO

And agasin its A1s decision and this is the path he chose

He is choosing his own path forward. Thats a good thing during a bad time for him

[This message edited by Western at 10:24 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

Said she couldn’t imagine that happening and that she would do anything to prevent it. I don’t think she had seriously considered divorce as a final outcome

A1, of course no one here can get into her mind and thought process. Looking at the situation though from the outside, she has had years to process everything. You've had next to no time. She has had no consequence regarding you and the M. She became a dutiful W by appearance, albeit while living a life of deceit. So as a matter of perspective, it is easy for me to see why she would have this reaction. She "fixed" herself post adultery through IC. Perhaps reconciled with her faith. Perhaps atoned by being a dutiful W. Definitely wayward thinking that she would expect an expression of love and a hug from you.

I would support any course you take (except rug sweeping). I do believe that the course you have charted offers the best chance for you to heal. You've bypassed a passel of triggers, avoided the pick me dance, and never got yourself into a state of limbo where you have no control.

Just a few weeks before you are with your daughters again. Love on them. Let them love on you. Soak it all in. You do indeed have a family that supports you, and needs your support.

Dads and husbands are bound by the 3 P's: Provide, Protect, and be Present. Your H role has been altered now. Now be all in on your Dad role. And kudos/props for you for letting your daughters be there for you.

I don’t think cheering someone on and congratulating him for driving straight is a clever idea if there might be a precipice ahead.

How is suggesting that he seek the guidance of the lawyer he views as most fit to offer him guidance and suggesting that he seek not only family council but individual counseling from a vetted and qualified counselor in any way delinquent?

On top of that he has a year to sort out his feelings.

Given he’s seeking out such qualified advice why would one suggest that he takes a detour into that shady looking town because it might have a restaurant that he likes.

The #1 rule in project management is to stay the hell out of the way of positive results. He’s achieving positive results in the path that he’s carving out.