SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Awoken

At the ceremony where you made your wows there were only you two – the rest of the world are not stakeholders in your marriage. Frankly nobody cares if you are married or not – people care for your happiness.

It’s OK to disappoint others. Really. It is. What is not OK is to disappoint yourself.

Your wife having an affair does not reflect you as a failure.

I’m a Christian. I have my shortcomings but work diligently at recognizing them and making amends. On some I succeed, on others I fail. Some I note, some I don’t recognize. What I can’t do and won’t do is pull out the Christian-membership card and wave it around at times that it benefits me and then hide it away at other times. Was your WW Christian those two weeks traveling with OM? What about when she had sex in the car? Was your drinking faith-based?

There is nothing anti-Christian in refusing to remain in a bad situation.

Heck… I don’t think the Big J and his dad look as much at what you did in life as they do to what you did with your life. Please – the only certainty we have despite our belief is that this is the only life we have. Don’t waste it because that’s possibly the biggest sin.

Don’t worry about the dating situation in the world these days. Remaining married because you can’t manage Tinder is a terrible reason to remain married.

What I encourage you heavily to do is to examine your options.

What would divorce really look like.

I am not going to be so direct as to suggest you divorce. But IMHO it’s necessary to understand what it is, the process and the consequences. I think the moment you can tell your wife something along these lines is the moment you can possibly start your personal recovery and – if possible – the marriage recovery:

“Wife. I envisioned growing old with you, but I have made a ground-breaking realization. As much as I fear being without you then even more, I fear sharing you. I have realized that for most of our marriage I have at best shared you, and maybe for parts of it only cohabited with you. I refuse to share.

Immensely worse than losing you would be to discover you are still in contact with OM. Even worse would be to think things are fine only to discover you have once again started your infidelity (like you did last time you “ended” it).

I don’t really see any hope in the infidelity being over while you seriously think me and my actions led to it. I refuse to accept any blame for your decisions to cheat. I am willing to change, but if you truly think I made you cheat there isn’t any way I can ensure I won’t make you cheat again. Therefore, I might just as well cut my losses now.

You are totally free to be with OM. You can date him, travel with him, have sex with him, have him openly in your life. But not as my wife.

Until and unless you tell me openly and vocally that you want this marriage, I am simply assuming you are still in infidelity.

Until and unless you give me a good reason for why we should work things out I am simply assuming this marriage is over.

If you want this marriage, then you need to do the above. You also need to accept certain terms and conditions such as commitment, openness, honesty, a willingness to seek help – both individually and as a couple.

There is no rush per se. There are laws that will ensure we both get fair treatment in divorce. We can be as amicable as possible. “

And then you go do something else.

If she tells you she wants the marriage you hammer on the why.

Whatever answer she gives shoot it down.

Divorce will be embarrassing. Yes, but only for a short while.

Everyone thinks we are perfect. Well – we aren’t.

We can’t afford divorce. Yes, we can.

What you want to be left with is only ONE reason:

She wants to be married to you because of you.

Awaken – I hope you realize that if you remain married you are both in for at least 2-3 years of both individual and joint therapy.

I would just ask again why you would ever want to be with this woman?

She has lied to you and denied you sex which she gave to this other guy for 18 years. She has not been your wife that entire time.

Who do you think you will get now?

The same person from those 18 years. Why would you want her?

Dating may be scary, but you should at least peak behind the curtain because you seem to think there aren't other women out there.

- she said for the 1st time in our marriage she can be completely honest with me after everything came out so things will be different going forward

But she cannot, because she is not an honest person. She is still not being honest. She refuses to admit her egregious acts that have all but destroyed the marriage, instead focusing on your faults. She has shown no real remorse or contrition whatsoever. Those are not the hallmarks of an honest person.

It’s funny regarding the dating side of things as literally the day after I confirmed the affair, I downloaded a bunch of dating apps and started going through a few - Tinder and POF being the first 2. I set up a generic profile with zero photos and played around with it for a day. I then deleted the apps as it was just a knee jerk reaction and I am nowhere near ready to date yet.

I ended up telling her about it in one of our talks, and then the other day she tried to twist it on me saying how do I know you didn’t use the apps in the past and went behind my back?

I responded - no problem - happy to show you on my phone the 1st install date of the app which is kept in the phone even if you delete the app, and it will show you it was the day AFTER I confirmed the affair.

I told her I was being transparent with my phone but she won’t be with hers. She didn’t even want to see it on my phone as she had no answer for what I said.

Also this morning I asked her when she is going to break it off with him and she said she was going to call him to set a time in person but he is still out of the country and needs to quarantine when he gets back.

She is adamant about breaking it off with him in person and refuses to do it over the phone.

Also, whenever I bring him up or any triggers and thoughts I have, she says it brings us backwards. I told her this morning that I can’t control that and remember it was YOU that caused this to happen.

She just wished all of the bad stuff that is happening would disappear and we would already be past this. I told her to put herself in my shoes and imagine she got audio of me and another woman in the backseat of my vehicle - how calm and collected would she be? She doesn’t want to think about that.

A few weeks ago I told her that we were already in an open marriage but she never sent me the memo - she didn’t like that comment.

I have already come to the harsh realization that she is a manipulative narcissistic damaged person and those qualities dwarf her good ones.

I have been holding on to all of her positive qualities, but in reality her negative qualities are the deal breakers.

A couple of realizations I just had

- she developed a case of OCD likely just around the time the affair started - I mean insane level of OCD

- she started wearing thong underwear around the same time as well and started looking after herself more down there - I can’t believe I missed that at the time

[This message edited by Awoken at 12:50 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Sounds like you know you are getting divorced and I really think you should. The lack of continued transparency and the desire to meet in person are just signs of the way she really feels. I personally would quit having these discussions with her. They are pointless and what she thinks is that you all are negotiating all of this right now when you discuss. I'd just tell her what your demands are and as Bigger is wont to say, "Go make a sandwich". There is no reason to discuss comparing anything you are doing with her, or having her discuss the mechanics of breaking up with her other husband. You tell her what she has to do for you to even continue discussing a life with her and she does it or not.

She can Facetime with the guy right now to see him in the eyes if she has to. Being in person is only so she can physically touch him. My gut would tell me what she really wants to do is give him a last chance to make her #1 and if he won't do it then she will come back to you and say she is all in for this marriage. Don't give her that chance. She doesn't deserve it.

She just wished all of the bad stuff that is happening would disappear and we would already be past this

My God, 180 Now!

Also this morning I asked her when she is going to break it off with him and she said she was going to call him to set a time in person but he is still out of the country and needs to quarantine when he gets back.

She is adamant about breaking it off with him in person and refuses to do it over the phone.

Why don't you just file for D and put an end to this sham of a M, don't worry about her and her boyfriend, just extricate yourself from this situation, you don't need her permission to do that. You need to "WAKE UP" and fast, have you EXPOSED her to family and close friends yet? if not, why not?.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 12:59 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Beenthereinco, she can’t be his number 1 as he is already married - since he is Muslim, the best that would happen is her being wife #2 and there would be 2 more after her.

With respect to filing for Divorce, I am not meeting with lawyer until next week.

I honestly try to look at both sides and will always push to fix a marriage first. But without full transparency that wont happen. She puts conditionals and controls on everything to limit you and for her to also blame you she is hiding from her own problems. As many would suggest I do believe its time to get a lawyer and consult on your options.

If there is any shred of a marriage left here that you want to try and save it's time that you make demands. No ifs, buts or coconuts.

Write everything down that you want. Everything little condition to make it easier for you to track and keep on top of what she is doing. Call it a social contract and if she breaks it or doesn't agree with it outright then its time to move on and tell her to move out.

I think she is definitely hiding from her own problems.

I think that she could have never imagined that she could have ever had an affair, especially with her upbringing.

As a result, it screwed with her head and to rationalize it, of course it had to be my fault because she is not the type of person that would do this. I know she is full of shame as she has broken down with tears about it many times.

However, I honestly don’t think she has fully come to terms with what she has done and what the potential long term consequences could be.

One day she will fully realize it, and that will be a very very dark day for her, and by that time I will already have been long gone.

She wants to break it off in person with him = one last romp in the hay... Oh, hell, no...!!!!

Call him now and say it's over or pack your bags. No more free room and board!

You can have a boyfriend OR me, but not both and with this history, maybe choosing the boyfriend is for the best!

Apologies for being too be blunt, but it's time to put your foot down, military style!

Sorry, this was by far my least eloquent post, but some things need to be communicated plainly.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 1:43 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

I think she is definitely hiding from her own problems.

I think that she could have never imagined that she could have ever had an affair, especially with her upbringing.

Stop looking for excuses for her cruelty - she's already found enough of them, whether she told you or not.

Find your anger, please.

I think there might be some misunderstanding on the Muslim polygamy issue.

But even then – his religion or his marriages or even your then-ex-wife’s future marriages are of no concern to you or to us. What matters is YOUR marriage.

When a spouse wants to break it off in person with the OP it’s a lot like the alcoholic that wants to make one last stop at the bar before his first AA meeting.

It shows the level of commitment and belief in that what’s ahead will work.

Awaken – You really don’t give us anything to work on.

My stance that any marriage can be saved if both commit to it. Her insistence on your blame and her insistence on breaking it off in person with OM clearly tell me she isn’t committed.

There is not a single comment you make about your wife or your marriage that makes even the most positive posters think you have a salvageable marriage. That could change, but only if her attitude towards the marriage changes. That won’t happen while you still think your marriage is so special that it’s the one everyone looks up to.

I have zero interest in ultimatums - I think they are weak.

I also have zero interest in playing ongoing detective. If I have to do that going forward, I am with the wrong person.

Plus, she can always delete calls once she makes them, deletes threads then creates fake ones, uses apps then deletes them - the choices are endless.

Having access to her phone is the illusion of transparency as there are still many ways around it. The ONLY way is to recover her entire phone and analyze with software for things she deleted.

I am assuming that you live in a country that has both Christians and Muslims. You say the POSOM is Muslim and you two are Christians. Is it normal for the two religions to intermarry ?

If this is not the case, would her family disown her if they knew she was with a Muslim (a different religion)? Also you say the POSOM is from South Asia. What language do the two of them (and you) converse in ?

Could you give us an example of an ultimatum you don’t agree with?

If it’s what I shared (and personally don’t see as an ultimatum but rather as a logical reaction to her decisions) then think of your two options:

You can refuse to share your wife

Or

You can accept she’s seeing OM and you live in a loveless and sexless marriage.

She is adamant about breaking it off with him in person and refuses to do it over the phone.

Tell her if she goes to see him she will come home to changed locks and her belongings on the front porch. You will not be disrespected one more day.

Its not normal for the 2 religions to marry but his 1st wife is Christian and I believe she converted.

Our entire families on both sides would be appalled by her behaviour as she is the last person anyone would suspect of behaving this way.

Not sure if her parents would disown her as she is still their daughter, but they would be heartbroken.

Her father is a very smart guy and he sat me down a month and a half ago and said I have changed, that I am not funny anymore and am much more serious. I asked him when he thought that changed. He said November 2019 (the EXACT month I started making all my changes). Very insightful of him.

My mother in law (who I love like my own mother), flat out asked me if I had another woman. She said whenever men lose as much weight and get as much in shape as I have it’s usually because of another woman. I had to bite my lip at the time to keep my mouth shut.

I have told 2 friends of mine about this. The first (a lifelong friend) thought I was lying to him because he knows her very well and was floored. He just went through his own divorce where his wife had to “find” herself and realized she is bisexual. She even offered him a 3some which he declined.

The other friend of mine said congratulations. He said you will be the envy of other men our age as you have everything going for you.

Bigger - by ultimatum I mean I am not going to give her a list of things that she needs to do to stay with me. I think it’s because I have mentally checked out and don’t care and I will be moving on.

[This message edited by Awoken at 2:01 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Her needing to talk to him in person is just wrong. If she truly ends it they will have "one last time" together. She needs to end it now, block him from all sources of contact. To be honest, she should get a new phone number. She is not acting like a woman who wants to save the marriage. She is acting like a woman who is trying to control the outcome. She is still trying to protect him at your expense. Bigger's quote is a really good one. But she seems like the type that will have to do it her way or not at all.

How in the world does she propose to work this out and to get past this?

And by getting past this does that mean going back to a sexless marriage?

I missed the link, is the guy she is with now the same guy that used to work with you? Or is that another shoe ready to drop?

Any way, you are quite correct that she cut you off so as not to be unfaithful to her boy toy. Sick.

You have put up with this for the vast majority of your life together. Not one minute more.