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It doesn't really matter. It is like saying a PA is worse than an EA or a LTA is worse than an ONS. They all result in the same thing.....hurting someone you are suppose to love and have made a commitment to.

1 - I did not know either AP, but I imagine that a double betrayal would be the worst of all...though they're all Really, Really Bad.

2 - The original A kills the M; after DDay, I did not "owe" my husband fidelity - rather, my faithfulness to our M was and had always been a function of the value I placed on fidelity in the first place. In my mind, an RA is only worse if the BS has an RA with a married OP; inflicting that kind of hell on yet another innocent person KNOWING how awful it is? Truly despicable.

To my mind, this is a smashing display of lack of empathy. I am a BS.

As a woman, I don't even have to have a living mother, stepmother, stepdaughter, sister or sister-in-law to understand the volumes of additional pain that would cause.

You have friends, some you must consider best friends. The closer they are, the more betrayal it would be - albeit of a different kind.

I did know her, as the mother of a friend of my child who attended the same school. When I now go to school or sporting events for my child(in a new town at a new school), do you think I look at the other moms and wonder if they'd like to see a movie and have a glass of wine or go kayaking and hiking or be my friend? Or do I wonder if they are trying to f* my husband?

My opinion on RA is that the initial offender broke the marriage contract. If it's out in the open, so be it. Personally, I would not do it for a number of reasons, but I see no comparison to the original affair.

1. Easier if its a nameless/faceless person you've never met.

2. Yes, of course.

1. I think it's equally as bad, just depends on your situation. For me, his AP was a COW which made it hard for me, knowing he was with her every day at work!

2. RA...still an affair. Maybe worse because you are aware of how devastating it is for the BS.

I'll admit to considering it though...right after D-Day. I even joined a site, something about "looking for an affair partner"...but when I received that first email, I started crying and deleted my profile. I wanted him to feel the pain I was feeling, but then I realized that would just double the pain in our relationship and probably give us ZERO chance of healing.

1) I think this is tricky(like all of this) because on the one hand you don’t actually want to know you e chosen to let two people into your life that could hurt you that intimately, in the case of a friend. In the case of a work place affair, it would be challenging to get past without it having serious financial impact ( due to quoting) or emotional toll of dealing with potential contact. However that feels like it would be “easier” to reconcile something sliding down that slope due to familiarity and proximity than knowing he chose to cross that line with a stranger. Just my thoughts tonight.

2) I don’t think it’s worse, at that time you feel like shit, the emotions are so overwhelming you almost can’t feel. I thought about it briefly to feel something other than either cold or overbearing pain. And as far as inflcting that pain on others/him, the fact that he could do this to mean, he didn’t love me and would be completely unphazed if he were to find out... was my thought process, what little there was. It was mostly reacting. Lots of loud music and extremely ho showers it overloaded the senses

I think you cannot try to manage which is worse for your betrayed. The worst would be to minimize, hide or lie about the exact nature of the affair, including with whom the affair/s occurred. I do think the more people involved in lying to the betrayed, the worse it is for the betrayed.

I feel the same regarding "revenge" affairs. It is the lying that is awful. Any chance at reconciliation is predicated on honesty and authenticity being the foundation. Now, if a BS were to never lie, withhold, obfuscate information, was fully honest and transparent and sought a sexual relationship outside of the marriage under these conditions, then the wayward could make their own informed decisions about whether this "revenge" affair was something they could tolerate or not. And, under such conditions, no I don't think it is worse than the original affair. Obviously sex with another is horrible, but it is the lying and gas-lighting above all else that makes it beyond horrible.

1. Person you don't know is probably easier to live with. Worst case scenario is where you (BS) are forced to interact occasionally with AP (like parent of a child that attends the same class as your children, etc.)

2. Original affair is way worse.

RA can be just as destructive, of course. If it happens during R, if it involves sneaking, lying, deceiving.

But if it happens when WS is remorseless, when marriage is destroyed totally, when the only thing indicating that you are married is piece of paper, when it has no potential to inflict more damage to the children (family is already torn apart), when the only thing that can be hurt is overinflated ego of WS, then I see no harm in RA (I'm not sure we can even call it that in this case). When contract is broken, both sides are free of it, not just one. I won't recommend it, but I won't ever judge BS who has RA in non-R conditions.

If nice enough woman came and spread her legs for me when I was in shock after finding out that instead of going straight to the pool, my WW drove to see AP2 (happened DDay1+3days), I would have fucked her. No such woman came and I didn't go looking for one, I had more important things to do. But don't you dare to compare such thing to affair, that was planned and executed in cold blood, that involved days, months, years of lying, deception, gasslighting. And, please, there's no need for bullshit about poor coping skills in this case - no one has right coping skills for such kind of shock.

1. I think not knowing the person would be way better. No face or name. The face and name also brings this person closer to you. Although it’s an affair so it’s just terrible in general. The downside is just knowing the person is something else to focus on when processing it all.

2. All affairs are bad. I look at it as, what does a ra do to a marriage ?

Pros:

Your bs can potentially better understand your pain. However it’s probably not as shocking if it happens shortly after learning of the affair.

For a marriage that’s going to be repaired, less of a feeling that you’re simply taking one for the team. Recognizing that your ws also is going through a similar challenge to heal.

Cons:

You are no better than your bs

I see the possibility of this creating a “culture of cheating “ in a marriage being repaired. Now that each spouse has cheated,

I could see how easy it would be to just have another affair if the going got tough.

More work to repair a marriage you want to repair

It doesn’t matter who the AP is. The lies and betrayal is still very painful, destructive in ways I don’t think most waywards get. . Continued lies and gaslighting make it almost impossible to rebuild trust.

1. Does it matter who you/your WS cheated on you with. Is it easier if its a nameless faceless person or does that make it harder.

EX: cheats with a co worker you have never met

OR

Cheats with the woman who lives in your town and see on occasion at the grocery store

2. Do you believe that if a spouse has an A and then the other spouse has a RA that the original A is worse?

1. It matters because OM/her boss knows me. We had a professional relationship. There was an additional layer of disrespect to deal with. Especially once it became public.

2. RA is based on pain. The original affair is so much worse.

Does the AP matter? Yes and no. Cheating with a random partner is painful in it's own right. The depth of pain caused is indescribable. Cheating with someone your BS knows or may encounter in every day life adds another layer to the pain. Cheating with someone close to your BS is a double beyrayal. Now, not only do they have the pain of YOUR betrayal, they must now deal with the pain of being betrayed by a friend or family member. Recovery becomes that much harder.... Your mind is always revisiting time spent with the AP. Feeling more the fool for not seeing tge A happening before your eyes. Thinking your WH and AP were looking out for you, but in reality they were looking for ways to sneak around. Both gaslighting you... It's a really hard pill for a BS to have to swallow...

As far as RA's. I understand them to a degeee. The BS is hurting and wants the WS to hurt just as badly as they do, but an A is an A. I don't think one is worse than the other. They are equally wrong IMHO. I've read some sitations here where RA's happened and that was tge final nail in the coffin of the marriage and I've seen where it wasn't. Both spouses seemed to feel it put them on an even playing field. An RA is not for me.

1. Two people of low character, and no morals screwed each other behind their partners back.

2. Two people of low character, and no morals got together and screwed each other behind their partners back.

^^^ I love this answer.

Why ask the questions? I'm just curious

1 - I have seen several photos of WH and his AP. Sexual photos and just some of them together smiling. They haunt me. I have also seen several screenshots of txts/messages. I read for myself the sexting, the cover stories, "I love yous", insults of me. I've seen it all. And I can't get it out of my head. There was no denying - it was all right there.

2 - An A [regular or RA] is always wrong. There is no justification for either. An A is the one of the worst things one person can do to another. Especially someone you love.

1. Two people of low character, and no morals screwed each other behind their partners back.

2. Two people of low character, and no morals got together and screwed each other behind their partners back

.

OK- but does this apply if the supposed “RA” is NOT a lying secret, is fully disclosed prior and transparent, and done so after the BS declares they no longer feel committed to the relationship and consider themselves separated? If there is no long, TT, gaslighting, or blameshiftng, just the unde standing that for now, the original WS A was a dealbreaker and the BS now considers themselves separated? Is the simple piece of paper that is the marriage certificate what defines character and morals? Perhaps religious context? I think morals and character are really about honesty at the end of the day. Is honesty descriptive of low morals and character? I’d disagree, ESPECIALLY if It’s just a consequence of the WS actions. False R, and going behind the back of the WS under pretenses.. that’s a True RA. Maybe that’s a better fit for your definition of low morals and character.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 10:04 PM, January 19th (Friday)]

1.

he had an EA ---- devastating pain because he actually cared about another woman. He felt for her.

he had a PA ----- devastating pain because he had sex with another woman. He kissed her, stroked her and then he orgasmed for her.

Both are equally devastating, in different ways.

2. The original affair is worse. A revenge affair is a manifestation of pain and anger designed to exact vengeance. The original affair was done just for fun and out of selfishness and entitlement.

* Both affairs are wrong. I just understand the way one could be driven to seek vengeance after infidelity. What's the saying, whats good for the goose.....

[This message edited by LongSigh at 11:20 PM, January 19th (Friday)]

For me, my wife's first adultery partner (1993) was a high school friend that we both wrote encouragement letters to and prayed for when he was discouraged. He was thrown out if the army for being mentally unbalanced, and was much better situated financially/assets-wise at the time. So there's a few plusses for the home team you'd think.

But I was warned internally about him when he popped in for his first (and last) impromptu visit with my wife at our house unannounced. Quite remarkably, I felt and somehow intuitively KNEW there was some sort of "emergency" situation at home and drove over 90mph to get there, and threw a fit when I saw his truck in my driveway and him and her together in the back yard.

I told him to leave and told my wife never to be alone with him again and that I didn't trust or feel right about him. But when he called her at her work and set a new "date" for them to reunite over dinner at his place, she went straight into the trap and screwed him the first chance she got. Then after another round or two with him behind my back, she left me for him, and was gone for 3 months. That's a lot of minuses for the home team right there.

AP# 2 a year later, after false R (1995), was basically a co-worker of hers that was faceless to me. I struggled like mad during our recent "rug cleaning" to just try to get a handle on that ghost so I could face him in my own way, but it didn't happen until a certain viral music video my wife recently saw triggered her memory as to his appearance and mannerisms. I was hammered hard to FINALLY see what I essentially was up against, but at least I've gotten some closure and acceptance of sorts after the renewed grief and trauma settled down somewhat.

As for an RA, I better "plea the fifth" for now. I will say however that something I seriously struggle with is that I saved myself for my wife and she's STILL the only one I've ever been with...EVER.

But the knowledge that she's had FIVE others AFTER our vows were said...that she has repeated first hand sexual and visual experiences with so many others so many times and had me played like the fool...the naive, trusting, grieving, changing-myself-for-the-pick me dance, village IDIOT while she was dating and rolling in the hay with ANYTHING/anyone she took a fancy to...That's not such an easy thing to be so emasculated and humbled and shamed by the girl I drove six hours one way just to date and courted for two years before marrying...And I wasn't that desperate either. I just loved and treasured her that much. I wish I wasn't quite so stupid and feeling so "left behind" in so very many ways.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 1:04 AM, January 20th (Saturday)]

I'm saddened by your expectation that the answers to these two questions will somehow help you.