SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey CM70, how are you doing?

I hope everything is going well for you.

I am doing good, been laying low for awhile as things have been quite. I took a good ski trip with some buddies up at Winter Park this last weekend & had a good time.

The WW has virtually cut down her texting, calls & going out by 50%. She has stayed away from the affair "friends" and actually recently been reaching out to her older friends (high school & college) and people that are stable and not surrounded by drama. She is acting normal most of the time and continues to go to the IC and her mood is much improved. I have tracked her via her phone & she is good so far. What does this mean for us as a couple I have no idea. She continues to ask for forgiveness and has been much better as of late.

CM70,

Did you ever put the VARs back? This provided you with pretty good intelligence in the past and would likely help you understand if she's making true progress now or just keeping her head down...

Sounds like some progress, but pay attention to the older friends. Do you know who her high school/college ex’s are?Even if she’s not contacting them directly they may be in included in the social circles of those she is in contact with. Not saying she’s looking, but old flames can go from innocent catching up to rekindled quickly.

Take her phone to a phone expert and get a recovery done if you haven’t. You’ll regret it if you don’t. You need the full story/picture.

Ok. But at some point you will have to address the fact that she has admitted (not to you) to loving and desiring the OM more than you.

We just don’t want you to subject yourself to a lifetime with someone who is always on some level pining away for someone other than you. You deserve better.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:52 PM, March 11th (Thursday)]

If she took the VAR out and has not mentioned it then she is still talking to him.

The old friends she is talking to are women not men & I have known these people for decades as well so they are not an issue.

Concerning the WW & the AP she has told me that she is 100% committed to trying to win my trust back, & their relationship was a fantasy and not real. This is what she has recently told me after her continued individual counseling with her IC. Do I believe her? No I am not there yet & may never be. I have taken out the VAR's for the last month. I doubt she would have phone conversations in her car at this point after figuring out I was listening previously.

I understand and saying the words that she is going to regain your trust and that she knows he was a fantasy is a start. But only the first step on a long journey.

I just want to make sure that you are conveying to her that you deserve not to be in a relationship where you love and desire your partner but she loves and desires someone else and that just pushing down her affection for another man is not good enough to rebuild this marriage.

She needs to find her desire for you and ALSO find her disgust for the man who helped her so terribly hurt her husband, the man she vowed to protect.

And she has the difficult task of making you to believe this with no doubt.

I gotta be honest. I know you won’t do this and you’ve made it clear, but if I were in your shoes I would require her to go live with the AP. I would force her to leave and confront her feelings for this man and tell her that in the meantime I was going to work on my own healing. I know it sounds crazy and many here may object, but to me it would be the only way for me to be sure that she no longer loved him.

Just saying it’s a fantasy because her mother and maybe IC told her it was would not be good enough for me. I’d want her to feel it. To live it. To realize what it was like to spend every day and every moment with this man. Have to figure out paying bills and other life stuff.

I would not want her ever thinking, perhaps after a low interaction with you, I gave up the life with the man I truly desire.

And if she found she loved him and wanted to build a life with him, at least you’d not be holding her back from finding her happiness and finding out years from now that she resented you for leaving the love of her life behind.

I appreciate that is all amazingly difficult to do. But when I really think about it, I wonder what other way she will be able to prove to you that she still doesn’t feel what she said on the VAR to her sister.

And because of that, I’d put the VAR back for a while. Maybe you will get lucky and you will catch her lying again about what she is telling you. Or maybe she will confirm what she is saying and it will help prove it to you. But that is just me.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:55 AM, March 12th (Friday)]

Stevesn, I told her multiple times a month ago if this guy is so great I will get a moving truck over here to pack you're shit up and put a red bow on your head & deliver you to him. She would just cry & say no I want to be here with you & the kids it was a mistake, I would do anything to turn back time etc., etc. Yes you are right my gut would have to tell me that she desires me and would do anything to be with me. So far that has not happened.

[This message edited by CM70 at 10:14 AM, March 12th (Friday)]

CM70,

It will be tough to determine whether your wife is experiencing regret or remorse. She certainly regrets the affair at this point, but remorse is another matter. What is she doing to help you heal or to show she understands how much pain she has caused? If she is walking down that path, you may have something to work with but it will likely take time.

In the interim, how is your IC going? You're the one that has experienced trauma, so you really need to take care of yourself first and foremost.

Ugh. I feel so bad saying these things to you. I want you to know if I could wrap up reconciliation in a pretty package and hand it to you to simply open I would in a second. I’m sorry to keep harping on this.

But what you said to her a month ago and what I am saying are different. It’s nuanced and tough for me to explain. But it is different.

So you gave her the choice. “If he is so great, I’ll help you move. Just say the word!”

That’s not what I am recommending.

Instead I am saying that you tell her you don’t believe that she doesn’t have feelings for this man and until she actually proves she doesn’t, you are not interested in rebuilding with someone who desires another man more than you.

In this way you have control of the decision. You need to control it instead of letting her make it.

So instead the conversation should be something like this:

I know you. I know my wife. And I can tell you still have desire for this man. I do not believe your words. I don’t believe you are telling me the truth. Perhaps we should ask the question under a poly.

That’s my recommendation buddy. It’s an impossible task I know. But if you really think about it, after what she has said to you and you heard her saying to others, I truly believe it’s your best chance. At the very least you will find yourself on a path to freedom where you can find the person you are supposed to be with!

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:21 AM, March 13th (Saturday)]

"Yes you are right my gut would have to tell me that she desires me and would do anything to be with me. So far that has not happened." So what has she been doing? Have you told her so far she's done nothing to show that she wants to be with you?

dbl post

[This message edited by Tempocontour at 9:24 AM, March 13th (Saturday)]

How is it going CM70? It's been a while. Hope everything is going good for you.

It's going my wife is having a rough go as of late. She could not get out of bed this morning due to her anxiety/depression issues and took a sick day. She just sent me a text saying:

"I am sorry I am mess right now. You don't deserve to have to put up with me. I know how stressed you are at work, and I am just adding to it. I'm sorry"

I have pressed her for open communication, as she calls her Sister & Mother for hour long calls and then comes to me and says do we have to talk tonight? She has not been going out at all & tries to act like everything is OK. She has not been to her IC in 2 weeks (schedule conflicts) but resumes tomorrow.

CM70,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

Just curious - has your wife always had anxiety/depression issues or has this developed as a result of the affair fallout? Is this being addressed in her IC and/or with a medical professional?

Have you brought up the calls with other people and the fact she doesn't want to communicate the same way with you? Her lack of transparency/communication with you seems to be at least a portion of the problem here and she needs to realize that. I am wondering if she is still hung up on the AP and just doesn't want to tell you...

I’m sure your mind went to this place already, but it sounds like she is still having these conversations with her mom and sister where she is stuck on AP and can’t figure out how to fall back in love with you. It feels like the only thing keeping her in the marriage is your insistence that you will be telling the kids if you divorce.

It sounds like your wife is finally starting to measure her lies and betrayals against her image of herself as a good person, and it isn't going well.

Most of us want to be the good guy in our story. Some psychologists think, for our own mental well being, we have to be. This is why so many people when caught cheating try to justify it, defend it, rationalize it, because if they can't, then they're just some lying, self centered, asshat who doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy.

Your wife is coming to the realization that this mental self image she holds of herself as a good mother, wife, person is a lie. She isn't in the good guy in her story, she's the bad guy. In her story. In your story. In your children's story.

She created this false narrative in her head where everything she was doing was find and good.

And yeah, once you pulled the lid off of all of it, sooner or later something had to give, and now she's paying the mental price for it. Realizing that not only are you wrong, but accepting that you're a liar who has betrayed your spouse and possibly destroyed your marriage, that's a hard pill for anyone to swallow.

As much as it sucks for her its a good thing. Guilt over what she's done, fear over what happens next, and shame, a lot of shame. All of this points to her finally accepting what she's done. Whether or not this is enough to save your marriage and turn this ship around, that's up to you to decide.

@MountainGuy,

While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with your point about CM70 being in the driver’s seat of reconciliation. He had the VARs which provided amazing insight into his WS’s inner thoughts and it is clear she fell out of love with CM70 when she fell in love with AP. All of WS’ actions right now indicate that she doesn’t want to reconcile, but feels she needs to reconcile because it is the “path of least destruction” for everyone. CM70 is still second place. The worst reconciliation is the one where it happens through logic not love or both logic and love.