SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Mickie500

For those of you who had online affairs- did you ever meet up with your AP? Was your BS more forgiving because it didn’t become a physical affair?

It was partly online and partly in person. The online part was disturbing to him because he thought the AP would try to blackmail him and he was worried about protecting his family and having it be out in public. That was a different kind of worry, not greater or lesser than the in person part, just a different range of things to worry about. And I'm sure it bothers him that the AP has digital mementos. The "more and better" approach helped my husband with that.

Hi everyone! If anyone would be willing to give me some insight in this I would appreciate it very much. So my WH is finally in IC. Two years post Dday.his fourth session. I know we are not supposed to discuss what is he doing in therapy but last night I snapped at him precisely for something his therapist told him. I don't know exactly what he told the therapist (it was something about the fact that I expect him to feel some kind of regret/compassion for the OBS - because of the hurt he caused) but her answear was that he doesn't have to have any kind of feelings or to apologise because the OBS is not was not friend or someone who he knew prior. I think this triggerd me, because if he can't feel compassion of some sort of regret for other people who were hurt by his actions, I can't believe he will ever start to have empathy for me. Am I asking for too much? Am I wrong? For him to give some thought of the colateral damage he caused? I don't know. I just want him to realise the hurt he caused innocent people. Even if you don't personally know the people you hurt, I would expect him to consider the harm he did to that person.

Motheroftwocats

I suppose I could understand what his IC was saying if the context was “focus your energies on your marriage”. IMO empathy has to start from the center and work it’s way out. Meaning, his energies should be focused on you and your children first. That’s not to say he shouldn’t care how his actions affect others but I know most WS lack the emotional wherewithal to do that.

In my case, my AP was still technically married when we started our A. I listened to her stories about him and what a shitty husband he was. I never even considered what she was telling me was anything other than the gospel truth.

It wasn’t until 3 years after the A ended did I stop to consider that what she said could be total BS. I’ve never met the man but I feel bad for him nonetheless. I have little doubt that I was not her first A. Although I wasn’t the cause for the ending of her marriage, our A could have negatively impacted him nonetheless.

IMO empathy is like a muscle. Use it often and it stays strong and healthy. Don’t give it the exercise it needs, it withers and becomes weak. It can take a long time to strengthen it but it’s an absolute must in order for R to have any chance. It has to be built slowly over time but it can work.

he doesn't have to have any kind of feelings or to apologise because the OBS is not was not friend or someone who he knew prior

I find this position baffling. So if you steal someone's car or break into their house, you don't have to feel badly about the damage you cause as long as you don't know them?

If she actually said he doesn't need to worry about the damage caused by his poor choices, she isn't much of a therapist. On the other hand, that sounds so off that I have to wonder if she actually said it, if there was some miscommunication between them, or if he's simply making it up.

...I have to wonder if she actually said it, if there was some miscommunication between them, or if he's simply making it up.

Seconding this.

The problem at a larger scale is that he is applying a filter to “who rates” empathy and compassion- Which indicates a transactional perception of healing. “Picking and choosing” is extra effort up front, the kind of rationalizing that will ultimately lead to giving oneself a pass.

It’s the same sense of hubris that will ultimately get him to “I’ve made myself feel bad about this for long enough.”- It’s what I did.

While folks need a space to unpack things on their own, if this is a trend of misperceptions from IC, this is the type of scenario where it might be suitable to pursue a joint session- Just to build a shared understanding of the challenges and current state of healing and potential for rebuilding. My STBXW’s IC knew us both fairly well at DDay, and there were a couple rudder steers during our brief attempts at R that were helpful.

Many WW's have said that they cannot remember their affair.

Did writing a timeline help you to recall things?

If writing a timeline helped, how much did it help you to be

able remember more details and better be able to answer

your BH's questions?

How many years after your affair did you have to write your

timeline?

Many WW's have said that they cannot remember their affair.

Did writing a timeline help you to recall things?

If writing a timeline helped, how much did it help you to be

able remember more details and better be able to answer

your BH's questions?

How many years after your affair did you have to write your

timeline?

@oldtruck: Writing a timeline helped me recall a lot of things I had shoved away. My BH didn't have a lot of questions and still doesn't, so my timeline ended up being more for me. It's available for him to review whenever he wants and I offered unprompted for awhile, he's just not someone that wants a lot of details.

The timeline was very helpful as to sitting with my actions and putting things into stark perspective. It's kind of morphed into a sequencing of my life in general, the choices, the motivations, the different crossroads. So, for that reason, I'm not sure that my timeline will ever be complete, but I'm only two years out.

Oldtruck,

Many WW's have said that they cannot remember their affair.

Did writing a timeline help you to recall things?

For me it did help.

If writing a timeline helped, how much did it help you to be able remember more details and better be able to answer your BH's questions?

When I wrote my timeline I did it all at once and didn't stop until it was completely finished. My BH also had wrote down the questions he had and I wrote all my answers down at the same time. The timeline helped me with some of the questions and some of the questions helped me with the timeline. It took me about 12 hours because once I started, I didn't stop.

How many years after your affair did you have to write your

timeline?

It was about a year and a half after d-day that my BH decided he wanted a timeline and needed the answers to some questions he had.

While I do have a pretty good memory, I struggled with some of the details and there were a couple of things, I just couldn't remember, no matter how much I tried.

my wife was an extreme trickle truther. i never even found out

who her OM was. never did anything to upset you with the OM.

then just oral, then sex, but just once. then finally got rid of

gold jewelry from her OM. this all took twenty years. could

not remember how they met or when it started.

then switched from not wanting to talk about and getting angry

she went to i do not remember and getting angry, threatening

to leave me if i did not stop talking about it.

40 years out, last few months we have have a few short talks,

explaining why i needed to know details, how not knowing

created issues. almost dead bedroom.

i asked her how often did i think about the past for the second

20 years. She, no idea, told her everyday.

claims she cannot really remember anything more now.

hopes we do not waste our last years together.

she has been a great wife and mother since we got back

together, last 40 years. no desire to leave her yet not being

able to talk about this has stopped me from living in the

past. and I know I am over due to do this.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 3:07 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

What is the I was protecting you thing when not telling the truth? My WW used that a lot as things started to come out.

Which story would hurt less

WW: 30 years ago i only had sex once with the OM.

WW: 30 years ago i had a PA for ten years, all the children

are the OM's. i sorry that i am told old to now give you an

heir and at 65 you are too old to start over with a young wife

to have her give you your own heir.

now my example is an extreme case but as you can see the

longer an affair went on, the more people that knew and the

BH was clueless, that the amount of sex they really had,

the sexual things she did for the OM that she never did for

and now still refuses to do for her BH.

so the WW limits to what a fraction of what she did to hurt

her BH less. though if she is honest with herself the WW is

protecting herself from going through the pain of telling all

the things that happened with her PA. WW also tries to

reduce the pain of recovery or divorce making things easier

for her.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 8:37 AM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

This may be a difficult one to get an accurate answer for, because by being on SI I expect most WWs here have gone though some degree of learning and growth but I also assume that there are some that took time to get to that point and may remember what their answer would be before they developed

Anyway

WWs do you respect your BH for giving you the chance to R? Or do you / did you think that BH stayed because he couldn’t do better?

I don’t mean do you feel fortunate, or grateful but do you respect your BH for staying? Do you see it a positive character trait or a weakness?

Hope all that made sense, just something that’s running around my head today because I’m pretty sure if tables were turned I’d be out on my arse and not in a million years would I have been given this opportunity.

Hi Two Dozen.

WWs do you respect your BH for giving you the chance to R?

Yes! A million times, yes!

Or do you / did you think that BH stayed because he couldn’t do better?

This one is trickier because it's not about my mindset, but his. Unless you're asking me if I think he couldn't do better than me and that's why he stayed? Then, no. Absolutely not. He couldn't do better than a woman who cheated on him? Puh-leeze. That's a low hurdle to overcome. But part of his mindset may have been an evaluation of who I am and all of the traits he likes and those he doesn't and then asking himself what he wanted and whether I had those things even considering my A.

I don’t mean do you feel fortunate, or grateful but do you respect your BH for staying? Do you see it a positive character trait or a weakness?

Definitely a positive character trait and not a weakness. I do think that both BH's who leave and stay have a strength of character in them because both things are extremely hard to do. But I can only speak from my situation. I think my BH is the strongest man I ever met. He is a man of immense character and integrity. There is no one I respect more than him. Period. Full stop. And that's not lip service. I saw what I put him through and what he had to carry. And for him to bear that burden and be a husband and father and then have the grace to offer me R. How is that not the epitome of strength?

A long time ago, friends of mine dated until she cheated. He forgave her and she broke up with him. She told me, I knew if he could forgive me for that, he'd forgive anything and I would never be held accountable and could get away with anything."

If you are in R, do you feel that you can get away with anything now? That nothing will push your BS to leave you?

Hi SadieMae.

If you are in R, do you feel that you can get away with anything now? That nothing will push your BS to leave you?

I think there are two parts to your question. I would say that if your mindset is that you looking to "get away with" anything then you're not really in R.

And then I also think it depends on the BS and why they chose to stay. I guess what I mean is that in my situation my BH stayed from a position of strength, not weakness. So I know that if I cheated again he'd divorce me in a heartbeat. Not only that, but if I hadn't put in the effort into him, myself and my M after my A, he likely would have left as well. Which kind of goes back to my other point about you're either in R or you're not. And looking to get away with things, particularly after you've cheated on someone, is not R at all.

Oh, and I should probably mention that being in R and being forgiven is not the same thing. I am in R but have not been forgiven.

Old Truck - I am glad you are talking to her. I don't know if there was a specific question you wanted answered?

WWs do you respect your BH for giving you the chance to R? Or do you / did you think that BH stayed because he couldn’t do better?

I respected him. I worried if he would change his mind. I felt I didn't deserve him, especially after all I did, and I definitely thought he could do better.

I don’t mean do you feel fortunate, or grateful but do you respect your BH for staying? Do you see it a positive character trait or a weakness?

I saw it as he had a sense of commitment that I did not have. He had integrity I didn't have. I saw it as he had patience, that he loved his family and wanted to see if he could put it together again. I definitely felt it was strength.

TwoDozen,

WWs do you respect your BH for giving you the chance to R? Or do you / did you think that BH stayed because he couldn’t do better?

I absolutely respected and still respect my BH for being willing to see if we could try and R. I also never thought for a second that he stayed because he couldn't do better than me.

I don’t mean do you feel fortunate, or grateful but do you respect your BH for staying? Do you see it a positive character trait or a weakness?

I respect my BH for not only staying, but for knowing what he wanted on d-day and being willing to at least see if we had anything left of our old M to even try and R. I also respect my BH for believing that I was worthy of redemption and for following his own path in trying to R.

I saw just how strong my BH actually was on d-day and how much strength he continued to have after. Never did I consider it a weakness in his character for being decisive in what he wanted or for the path he chose.

I’m pretty sure if tables were turned I’d be out on my arse and not in a million years would I have been given this opportunity.

I'm curious if there something specific that leads you to believe this or is it just a general feeling you have? Why do you think that your WS would not have been able to or willing to try and R if the tables were turned? How do you think that your WS sees you and/or the decisions you've made since d-day? How do you see yourself and/or the decisions you've made since d-day?

SadieMae,

A long time ago, friends of mine dated until she cheated. He forgave her and she broke up with him. She told me, I knew if he could forgive me for that, he'd forgive anything and I would never be held accountable and could get away with anything."

Let me start by saying that I sure hope this friend got some much needed IC for herself. First to find out why she cheated and what she would have done if he had broken up with her instead. But I also really hope that she got help in figuring out why she needed to have someone else hold her accountable for her actions or behavior, instead of being able to hold herself accountable.

If you are in R, do you feel that you can get away with anything now? That nothing will push your BS to leave you?

I would not consider a wayward to be in R, trying to R or even R material if this is actually what R means to them or how they see their BS.

I've known since d-day that my BH wanted to see if we could try and R, but I've also known that he could have as easily have decided to file for D.

So no, I have never, ever felt that R was some kind of proof that I could get away with anything in our M or think for even one second that my BH could never leave me.

In the situation with your friends, I wonder if either one of them would have felt or decided differently if they were married instead of dating?

Let me start by saying that I sure hope this friend got some much needed IC for herself. First to find out why she cheated and what she would have done if he had broken up with her instead. But I also really hope that she got help in figuring out why she needed to have someone else hold her accountable for her actions or behavior, instead of being able to hold herself accountable.

I view this she broke up with him but did not have the courage

to tell him to his face.

She hoped he would catch her and dump her. Being her plan

did not work out she then had to man up and dump him. Then

she spins the story to make herself look good with the I cannot

respect him. Yet she had no problem respecting her own

lying and cheating ass.

OT,

thanks, sorry for what you are going through.

I kind of thought that but figured if she loved me just a little she might actually try to protect me, alas no