SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're missing the point. You shouldn't have to just "accept her truth."

Not missing the point at all. I really don't have the energy for this shit. Either we just separate, or I protect the fuck out of myself and reconcile.

That's all I got the energy for. I don't know which to choose, but I know I am not going to spend hours and hours trying to get to "The Truth" if honestly I just don't care that much about the relationship. Kinda says a lot right there, doesn't it?

To be honest, when I was considering my path I didn’t want to know the details. People can make horrible selfish choices…and still remain good at the core and will learn and better themselves. Why carry the eminence burden?

I later started talking to my ex and almost submitted to a fling even after I met my now wife…I feel very guilty about my thoughts and looking back I could have easily gone too far and what would I have done???fessed up or buried it as something I have to live with and try to make up to her everyday? I still think of myself as a good person and give my now wife every consideration possible. I did tell her most of the story…well maybe I am an ahole after all.

I would make sure she understood how close to the cliff she came. That amount of texting was completely unforgivable but somehow im able to consider forgiving but there better be many many kisses to my ass for a very long time to keep me from coming back to my senses and kicking your disrespectful ass to the curb

Why not just move forward with the divorce and no alimony. If you want to stay together and try to R after that, you can. If she cooperates with the divorce and accepts no alimony, you will feel a lot more reassured that she is actually trying to reconcile.

I think she is pretty much counting on you being too tired to get the truth and make any moves.

I think she is pretty much counting on you being too tired to get the truth and make any moves

Let me be 100% clear on this as it's been discussed many times. No mater what I decide to do, I will NOT have to pay alimony.

Let me explain: In my state, marital misconduct is a bar to alimony. To prove marital misconduct, I need to show "inclination" and "opportunity". I have both hands down - "inclination" - 32000 texts and "opportunity" - staying be herself at the beach where he lives. I know this and she knows this, her attorney even knows this and told her.

So to protect that IF I reconcile, I will get a postnup which will allow her to waive her share of the marital assets, or a reconciliation agreement which will allow her to waive alimony...for any reason...if we divorce in the future. Either way the dollar value is about equal.

So no, she isn't trying to wear me down. She knows she is going to lose something NO MATTER WHAT. She has accepted this and it is a non-issue.

Hi there.

I believe you on the terms. Sounds like you’re well researched on it and the lawyers are strong and well versed.

You don’t have to rush into a decision as you know. They only thing that may get difficult as time goes by is getting any forensic type evidence (texts, hotel videos, etc) but you are comfortable with your decision right now and I think even understand you may regret it later. But it’s your choice to make.

As I mentioned before, I would let her do whatever she offers to do. Make amends not only to you, but also family and friends, preferably with you present or hearing back from those she talks to after is important healing steps for not just you but her as well. Make sure she knows she cannot sugarcoat what she did.

That also starts the trust building. Don’t ignore it or waive it off.

And tell her you need to see her not just following your lead, but taking the lead herself on rebuilding. She should present opportunities to show you she is all in, and confirm with you that they would be beneficial.

Finally, if it were me, I’d want her not only to be a good partner in life, but take the initiative with you like she did the AP. Show she desires you and wants to win you as a partner again.

These could range from writing you letters, to planning dates, to daily signs of affection, to amping up the flirting with you far beyond what she showed the AP.

This of course is not in place of doing chores and being a good mother again and the day to day aspects of marriage, but in addition and only when you feel comfortable to receive these signs of love, lust and desire again.

Remind her this will be a long road, measured in years but built day by day. It’s the only way to do it.

And her IC needs to be permanent for now. Make it a weekly part of her life only until you both agree she has fixed what was broken in her. That is also a multi year process.

Finally out of that, she at least has to admit that she put herself in a position, or planned to, where there was opportunity for physical cheating. Having drinks at a bar with an old flame near a secluded hotel room implies that even if it was not her focus, physical interaction was a possibility depending how the evening went. She had opportunity to do so available.

If she truly wanted to catch up with this man as friends, she should would have planned for you and her to have a meet up with him and his wife. People dont become friends with old flames decades after years of Marriage to someone they want to stay with. Tell her this. If she is being truthful she’ll admit it wasn’t just platonic or Intended to be. And if she won’t, I think I would be forced to move forward with full divorce. If she does admit to how I characterized it above then you have something to work with.

Doing all these things together is how she rebuilds the marriage and shows she is truly all in. I hope you will take heed and require this of her especially if you are going to end investigation mode.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:17 AM, Friday, December 2nd]

Some times people are fine with where they are when it comes to their WW spouses. RoverGuy has had a VERY level head on his shoulders thoughout this.

He knows he may not R with his wife, and honestly, it looks like he could go either way. He knows he may not have all the truth as far as further info goes, he also knows what he has to look forward to no matter what road he takes.

He also knows theres a very good chance lines would have been crossed if the AP hadnt flaked. He knows she had an EA. 2x4'ing him isn't going to change things at this point. He has enough for himself to go forward on this. Yes, he doesnt know what road that will take, but he's satisfied with what he knows. Further hitting him about the head and shoulders will not make it any easier on him at this point. He may regret it later on, but he knows its a risk he'll be taking.

In fact it may make him less inclined to come here as he moves forward and ask for insight others may have, further down the road to R or D. I half expected him to be chased away by now. Yes, I do agree he perhaps should know more, but he IS satisfied with what he knows and his feelings towards that knowledge. That in itself should soften some of those 2x4's. When someone has found what they feel is a good position from which to make the decisions they need to make, screaming and hollering at them will do more harm than good.

He's been rational, level headed, did so much right, secured a good lawyer, so instead of shoving him to the door, we circle the wagons a bit and go with his judgement of what he wants to do, or not to do.

If she can get into IC and finds out whats wrong with her and does the work, I hope he can find away to through this and has a happy marriage. Even if she does and he can't forgive her, I hope he has a great future after they part. He will find whats right for him at some point.

Its sort of like teaching your child to ride a bike (not inferring RoverGuy is a child) at some point, after helping them and teaching them what they need to know, you have to let go and let them pedal it on their own.

We're at that point here.

[This message edited by LegsWideShut at 7:45 PM, Thursday, December 1st]

I know you're exhausted; that's why the onus should be on her do everything that she can do to get you the truth that you need and take a proactive role in the healing process.

All she's done thus far is make promises, which she may or may not be able to keep. She could prove that all her texts and photos were innocent by recovering them. If she was confident that messages would exonerate her, she would jump at the chance... if not to save her marriage, then to give her attorney some basis to argue for why you should still have to pay alimony.

But she won't do that. She is expecting that this will all blow over in a few weeks.

Fact of the matter is, she has shown herself to be a liar and manipulator; she no longer deserves nor should she expect the benefit of the doubt. If you decide to reconcile, it should be based on actions that she has taken to earn that opportunity, not empty promises or dubious assurances.

To address LegsWideShut's point...

He's been rational, level headed, did so much right, secured a good lawyer, so instead of shoving him to the door, we circle the wagons a bit and go with his judgement of what he wants to do, or not to do.

RoverGuy, I've told you before how much I admire how you've handled yourself throughout this. To be clear, I'm not-- and I don't think anyone else is-- criticizing you or badgering you to take any specific action that you don't want to take. We're not living your life and whatever decision you make has to be one with which you will be able to live.

Every single one of us here has wanted to believe the best of our spouses; we wouldn't have married them otherwise. We just don't want you to get a bomb dropped on your head months or years down the line or suffer from uncertainty and anxiety because everything was swept under the rug.

I have just one question for you Rover and you may have answered this already. Were any "I love yous" exchanged between your WW and her boyfriend?

Can I just say I felt the way you do and it’s a big part of why I never fully shared my experiences.

This place has an inherent bias… it’s like doing research on cancer in a doctors surgery. Sounds like a good idea but there’s bias because you’re only seeing people who seek treatment.

I’m with you on this, it’s a hard notion to defend (believe me I know) but I get that gut feeling. I had it and rode it to separating on D-Day.

[This message edited by Kindern at 8:46 PM, Thursday, December 1st]

Obviously I am having a bad day. This rollercoaster sucks. But to Legs point, I believe that what I know now is all I am going to know. She will never change her story, OM will never change his story. I'm tired and angry and want to do anything but think about this.

As I stated before, I have HER truth only, which admits an inappropriate relationship with an EX, no meetup, no sex, no inappropriate pictures, etc. Then I have what is floating around in my head which is the opposite of her truth. So I am sure the real truth is somewhere in between. That's what I need to either accept or not. Right now, I am just fucking tired.

On another note, I owe some of my strength to this forum. I never would have it this far without it. Good or bad, I read every response and try to fit it in my situation and what I know of my WW.

Well our minds will always play the worst mental movies there can be, in most situations, not just infidelity. If there is more to find out, if the AP's wife finds more, with luck she'll let you know, if she doesn't ever find more, who knows maybe your wifes truth is closer to the full truth. And Im not saying you have it all, but to drive that point any harder would serve no purpose except aggravate you.

Deciding if her truth will be enough will be a tough decision to make. I know how tired and angry you are, and that road is still a bit longer. But the white noise does quiet and from there you can make a decision that, for better or worse, will be one you can be at peace with.

I've gone through this with 1 brother and 2 friends, along with what my exWW did, and theirs were not easy. I always wish for others to have the sucky ability to cut ties and thats that. Granted I couldnt just cut ties with my son, so I did sort of have to suffer through a sham marriage for a couple months.

Here's hoping your roller coaster flattens faster than you expect.

[This message edited by LegsWideShut at 10:45 PM, Thursday, December 1st]

Rover, this is the problem. Let’s say you R. And, I don’t buy that you don’t care whether your WW met up with OM or had sex with him. You will care, trust me.

The issue is this. You R. That takes a lot of time, energy, years, money for therapy, etc. R is a huge investment. If you find out down the road that your WW lied, trickle truth’d, met up with OM, or had sex with OM, you will be done. You’ll D her. However, all of that energy you invested into R, all those years of your life wasted, and for naught.

This will be true as well. R goes well. You’re happy with it. Then your mind starts moving and you start to have mind movies snd doubts. Now you think the real truth matters, not your WWs version of the truth. You then become resentful and angry. Now, a year later, you want a poly. What are the chances she’ll agree to that a year into R. She’ll tell you to take it or leave it.

Sure, you’ll have your money in D. Is that compensation for wasting all of those years of your life in false R?

Or, you can take the few minutes snd set up a poly. Are you looking at this equation logically?

Rover

The posts over the last couple of days have been tough from both sides. Maybe we try to find some calm?
I want to address two issues that I think are key. Answering them might simplify your situation:

On some things in my life I check, double check and triple check. I make certain that my info is as true and good as it gets. Very early on – before you knew the extent of the relationship, text and image content etc – you were told by your attorney that you had enough to remove any claim for alimony. Maybe that was under the assumption that they did meet and that the content was sexual.
I don’t pretend to be an attorney, and I definitely wont claim to be a specialist in NC law. But from the research I have done (to the extent of reading the definite case defining what is "adultery") then I would at least worry that you might be overconfident on this issue. Even considering Marital Misconduct (btw – throwing her out would have been marital misconduct…).
In your shoes this is a check, double check and triple check issue. It’s only an extra question next time you hear from your attorney.
But… the key issue might be that she thinks this gives you power. You can bluff a better reconciliation agreement if she really thinks you are holding a Royal Flush.

The second factor:
You don’t need the complete truth right now and chances are you never will get the COMPLETE DEFENITE TRUTH. Some truths are relative or based on perception, based on memory or deductions... Some are factual. Like if they met or not. Either they did, or did not.
What you need if you want to reconcile is to know if you can trust her.
No – not blind trust or that everything she says or does is to be trusted. But at least that the key-factors in her story are confirmed by passing a poly. That she’s being honest.

Those three questions I suggested? They will answer the key issues. She passes all three and wham! You are on a much better path. Don’t need to go through those messages or pics.

There – two actions and you are in a much better place:
Confirm your legal understanding reg the effects of her actions on alimony
Get the poly over ASAP.

Rover I want to focus on what I wrote above.

Finally out of that, she at least has to admit that she put herself in a position, or planned to, where there was opportunity for physical cheating. Having drinks at a bar with an old flame near a secluded hotel room implies that even if it was not her focus, physical interaction was a possibility depending how the evening went. She had opportunity to do so available.

If she truly wanted to catch up with this man as friends, she should would have planned for you and her to have a meet up with him and his wife. People dont become friends with old flames decades after years of Marriage to someone they want to stay with. Tell her this. If she is being truthful she’ll admit it wasn’t just platonic or Intended to be. And if she won’t, I think I would be forced to move forward with full divorce. If she does admit to how I characterized it above then you have something to work with.

You may never get her to say that she intended to take it a step farther and get physical and intimate with her ex. But if she cannot admit that how she was trying to set it up made it look like if she made the choice in the moment, she’d have ample opportunity (3 days with her own room in a beach hotel, very romantic) to make it happen if she wanted to with no one around but him to see what he was doing.

If it were me, I would let her know that I could not move forward with rebuilding if she could not at least admit that she set up the possibility of romance with this guy even if her Intent wasn’t there (I’m convinced it was, but since you won’t try to retrieve the texts we won’t be able to prove it).

As I wrote above, I would tell her if she had only innocent motives in reconnecting and wanted to protect the man she vowed to love honor and protect as her husband, she would have asked to meet with you and him and his wife as two couples, instead of a secluded rendezvous. I would actually tell her that.

If you are looking for her to be honest in rebuilding with you, that is where I would start. Again if she cannot do that, you have no starting point to begin with.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:41 PM, Friday, December 2nd]

Thanks, Bigger.

Other than RoverGuy, have you had sex (as we defined sex earlier on) with any other man since you married him in 1996? [This is a catch-all and it would probably be best she knows she will be asked about the past. She has the chance of coming clean if she hooked up with the pool-boy back in 2001 or whatever.]
From 2020 have you met or been in the same room as OM? [She denies having seen him at all. If she passes the first question yet fails this one = they met but no sex. If she fails the first one then she’s already failed…]
During your affair with OM did you send personal pictures with sexual content? [She claims there was no sexual content in the pics. This again is to confirm her honesty.]

So these were the three questions you posted. I spoke with no less than 4 polygraph examiners. 2 were non-law enforcement, 1 was retired local PD with 40 years of polygraph experience, and 1 was retired FBI with 30 years of polygraph experience. I don't know who on this forum has ever gone through with a poly, but let me explain what all 4 agree on.

1 - The movies and the TV are crap. That is NOT how a poly works.
2 - The poly is only a pass or fail. This means that you cannot know which questions someone is lying about, only that they were lying on one of the questions you asked.

One of retired law enforcement examiners gave me some advice. The first was that the poly won't matter...I will believe what I want to believe. He told me a story about a woman whose husband SWORE she was cheating. She said lets do a poly so I can prove I am not. She first went to one of the poly examiners that advertise heavily online. The result was not favorable. So she reached out to one of the law enforcement examiners and begged them to give her a poly. The first time she did it with them it came back "inconclusive". She begged to do it again and she came back the next week and took it again. She passed with flying colors. She called the examiner a month or so later and told him that her husband still didn't believe her. The second was think about whether this is worth throwing away 26 years.

So my point with this is that with those 3 questions, if she fails, I won't know if it's because she had sex 20 years ago or if she was in the same room with OM in October. And honestly, I believe they have not seen each other in over 30 years. I am not questioning that. I also believe that my WW would never send sexual pictures. She obviously has self-esteem issues, and as I stated, after being married for 26 years, I have received ONE picture from her...and believe me I tried! She would never send one to an ex.

I have checked, double checked, triple checked, and quadruple checked. What I have s enough to bar alimony. She is not questioning that at all and is completely open to a postnup or reconciliation agreement. There is really no need to bluff since she destroyed all the evidence. And believe me, without a postnup or reconciliation agreement I will not even consider R.

At this point I think I know all I am going to know and need to make a decision.

But if she cannot admit that how she was trying to set it up made it look like if she made the choice in the moment, she’d have ample opportunity (3 days with her own room in a beach hotel, very romantic) to make it happen if she wanted to with no one around but him to see what he was doing.

She has admitted this several times. This is actually one of the topics we talk about a lot and the main one that I am stuck on. She freely admits it looks horrible. She freely admits that she was excited to see him. She also admits she had no intention to take it further than a drink, but she was interested to know if it was going to be "weird" or if there was still a spark. She also says that she has boundaries and would never have acted on anything, which is why they were going to meet in a public place and that she would never have acted on any impulses. This is where I get stuck. From a man's point of view, if the situation were reversed, I would 100% think I was getting laid. That is probably why the OM backed out. I mentioned before that the OM has nothing, everything he owns is in his wife's name...everything. So he wasn't willing to even be seen in public and jeopardize his entire life.

Rover, if your search this sight for polygraph threads, we have had quite a few members who have gotten them. We have had members whose WS only failed on certain questions. We have had examiners that will ask up to 5 questions, 3 questions, or only 1 per test. I remember one whose WW failed a question, admitted to more, then passed on a new test. Perhaps a general pass/fail is standard for your area but plenty of administrators, even retired LEOs, have performed tests this way. Posters here speak from the experiences we get here and I'm assuming none of those posters are lying and don't understand what they would gain by doing so.

He told me a story about a woman whose husband SWORE she was cheating. She said lets do a poly so I can prove I am not. She first went to one of the poly examiners that advertise heavily online. The result was not favorable. So she reached out to one of the law enforcement examiners and begged them to give her a poly. The first time she did it with them it came back "inconclusive". She begged to do it again and she came back the next week and took it again. She passed with flying colors.

I'm very surprised that this man thought this was a ringing endorsement proving that she was telling the truth. You can learn to pass a polygraph while lying. There are techniques that can skew the results in your favor even if you aren't trained. He may see a woman who had a bad run of things at first but having been a poster here for years, I see a WW who failed and kept taking tests until she passed potentially as a way to gaslight her BS. Unless he had a good reason to believe she failed the first one due to some kind of error, why do only the third test results count as the truth? Sounds like he too wanted to believe what he wanted to believe about her. I'd be curious to know why her BH believed she was cheating so strongly. Maybe he had evidence.

You don't have to get a polygraph if you are satisfied with what you know and believe it to be the truth.

My polygraph experience..

Retired LEO.

4 questions.

He failed 1. I was told which 1.

Turned out he failed because he lied. I know this because I eventually found evidence that he lied.

You know your wife would never send sexy pics(they don't have to be naked to have been wildly inappropriate). I get that. Did you ever think she would have an affair?

BTW, people have been pushing for you to get the poly,or dig for the truth (which often comes from digging and not the WS), because we know that you are going to attempt R. It's been clear. We don't want it to be false R. If you find out you've been lied to,months from now, it will set your healing back to day one. So,although you're frustrated with some of us, we're not on some witch hunt. People are trying to protect you from further pain.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:19 PM, Friday, December 2nd]

People are trying to protect you from further pain

I know this, and it means a lot.

What does it say about me that I haven't shed a single tear over this? Not a fucking drop. And a week or so after d-day, I really don't feel pain anymore? Disappointment, betrayal, anger, yes. But it really doesn't hurt.