SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not all cheating is the same but cheating is a honesty filter like nothing else . Who was she in the affair ? Well you already know

1. Did she protect you

No , clearly the heater incident shows that she willingly went along not only with sex but with the ap s need to be cruel mocking and humiliating towards you

2. Did she protect the marriage at any level

No she said infact that she wanted to leave you and move on with him .

3. How much of a liar was she

For two whole years ( not one drunken night ) she baldy lied to your face and would be lying to you today if BW hadnt clued you in

4. Were emotions involved

You read the texts . Two whole years , either she was in love or she is a complete psycho .

Being cruel isnt. a mandatory part of divorce or cheating , its entirely optional. Also even during the affair many ws s make it very clear to the ap that they still love their spouses and they dont want to hear anything negative about them . iMo thats the only real requirement to consider a R

I actually dont think the worst part of your story is the sex the worst part by far was the complete lack of respect / contempt she displayed . Again , you know her alot better than I do but from my pov you already have enough hard evidence to not consider R . If i were you Id take her temporary goodwill and just quickly work on separating the finances

[This message edited by siracha at 7:59 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

AHG, do the timeline and polygraph if you want to. There is healing and moving on in knowing the truth. Ask her to do it and see what she says. If she balks or tries to weasel out of it any way, start the D process.

I'd also like to point out that it's very telling to me that her big talk attempt at getting you back STARTED with her justifying calling OM. Not an apology. Not an acknowledgment. A justification for more lying. To me, that says everything about where her head is at. It's not on you and your pain. It's on herself and the consequences of her actions. If she truly believes there is any justification for breaking NC and not coming clean about it, she hasn't learned a damn thing about R and will be okay doing it again in the future if she has reason to. That is where her remorse is lacking.

AH, some people need to know everything. What they don't know plagues them more than what they do. They know there are missing things and unknowns. Some people don't. Just because someone yells (capitalization) doesn't mean they have a stronger argument. People are different. I needed to know everything. I never found out everything but I needed to know.

The heater incident bothered you because you couldn't imagine such depraved behaviour. That kind of depravity isn't in you and it's hard to imagine the person you had pledged to love and cherish and tried to live that way could have it.

My XWW invited me to a company BBQ which just happened to be at her COW AP's place, a farm on the edge of town, 5 minutes from where they worked. She had been there numerous times, dozens by then. He was cooking the hamburgers. We were face to face. XWW got to allay any suspicions any of the other staff might have had about them if she brought her loving husband. Same with her loving husband.

I walked the ground she had walked so many times to go in and get fucked. No issues for her, though, about me and him being in the same vicinity. None at all. I challenged her that there must have been a lot of chuckling and contempt about my lack of knowledge. She claims no. Do I think her POS didn't feel any superiority or contempt for me by knowing he was fucking my wife. Same in your case. Depravity.

The very first time our house was empty of our daughters and my XWW's mother who stayed with us for a while after she had a stroke. I went away for a three day conference. The very first opportunity XWW brought POS to our house and they screwed in my office space.

My XWW and your WW showed that depravity. You don't understand it because it isn't part of your psyche. It's beyond your understanding that someone who claimed, in the past, to have loved you and who you loved could do that.

These things will stay with you whether you R or D. They will lose their impact with time and, in my case, lots of IC.

I'm a born again Christian. It took a long time before I was able to forgive my XWW and that was a process in itself. The forgiveness is actually for me. I needed to know what I was forgiving. Forgive doesn't mean forget.

Stay strong, AH. Strength of mind and clarity of thought.

AH I am sure that what you say about the home/property is true insofar as your heating/cooling business operating from there and utilizing the storage bldgs.

But is it as unsolvable or intractable a problem as you currently think?

We all tend to catastrophize in these situations.

I know you must have a pretty extensive network of business connections. Is it really the case that there’s not a solution for you should you sell the house and property?

I’m asking bc your WW seems to be clinging pretty hard to the notion of keeping that house and property. She’s doing the bird In one hand thing after she previously disdained what her self made husband has built.

It doesn’t seem tenable or a fair divorce to me that she gets to keep a home and property earned off your back - unless she can buy you out. Seems it should be sold and whatever equity is available split.

But is it really the case that there’s no solution for you to keep your business and sell the home at the same time?

This is in part why I recommended a “worst case scenario” visualization. Because if you know you’re resilient and can not only survive that but feel liberated, then you know the right way forward.

Your wife is very manipulative.

Initially she said she'd do anything.

Nope she lied because now you discover 'anything' has conditions: you give her another chance and she gets to live in the house forever.

Among other things cheaters are: entitled, selfish, deceitful, and lack empathy for their spouse.

She's still the same deceitful, entitled and self centered person that cheated on you. And she still lacks empathy for you.

She's learned to hide it better by using the words/terms she learned in therapy & reading books.

Furthermore, under the circumstances, in order to protect yourself in an adversarial situation, you should assume she knows as much about the law as you do. Realtors meet a lot of attorneys for her to reach out to.

Therefore, it's fair to assume that she knew her 'offer' would not hold up in court.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 8:16 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Can you split the land so you get the outer premises / vehicle storage while she lives in the house itself with a small garden Not that you need to , but its good to know if its even possible

[This message edited by siracha at 8:47 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

I'm just an old soldier who believes that everyone is guilty of something and deserves a second chance if they REALLY want one and they EARN that chance

While this is certainly true, consider an analogy: let’s say you had a longtime business partner who had developed a terrible gambling habit and then embezzled from your business to finance his debts. The embezzlement put you on the brink of bankruptcy.

It went on for years under your nose, and you’ve seen texts with his gambling buddies in which he jokes about how stupid you are and how it’s so easy to take you to the cleaners. In one case he managed to convince you to come to the gambling den and fix a heater so he could keep the poker game going with the cash he stole from you. You only found out about this later.

You discover all of this and confront your partner. He asks for forgiveness, says he’s going to get help for his gambling (but hasn’t yet taken any action on this). He has still been in contact with his gambling buddies.

He says he tried to tell you about his gambling problem but you were too busy. He says he started gambling because while the business was successful it just wasn’t enough for him and he wanted more out of life. He also tried to get you to invest in more expensive equipment but you were too conservative. He says you didn’t listen to his ideas and didn’t appreciate how hard he worked.

All of this, he says, contributed to his gambling problem. He’s been to church and prayed and asked for forgiveness from the Lord.

And now he wants you to stay in business with him while he figures out his gambling addiction. He’s not offering to pay back the stolen funds but he says he will continue to do the bare minimum required in his job. Also while he’s not offering any specifics, he says if you stay in business with him, he will be the best business partner anyone has ever had. He wants you to meet with his pastor so you will really understand how serious he is.

Does he deserve a chance at redemption? Of course.

Does he deserve to stay your business partner with his hand in the till? No.

You’d tell him to go get help for his gambling problem and unfortunately you can’t be his business partner anymore because you’re focused now on saving your own financial situation and clawing out of bankruptcy. You’d wish him well but say you need to focus on your own situation now.

That’s the way it is.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:34 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

First, I just want to say I think you are doing a fantastic job dealing with the Hell that she has thrown you and your family into.

Although, I THINK, she may be beginning to realize what she has done, she hasn’t come close to realization the true depth of the damage she has done to you or the kids.

She is still in self-preservation mode. Yes, she has quit her job, but she really had no choice. I believe that you described your community as small. That means everyone in the area, especially in that field knows. Everyone she works with now knows who and what she is. Her colleagues don’t want to work with someone that sleeps with wealthy clients, even if it was only one. They don’t want their company to be tarnished by her actions. I would not be shocked if new (scumbag) clients approached her company in the hope of getting the added benefit of having a slut take care of them, whether it was your wife or one of the other women in the company. The women of the company want nothing or as little as possible to do with her.

As for the home and your property that you need for the business....

It can be tough finding a suitable location for your business in the best of conditions. You also said that you believe that she will probably have a difficult time affording the house.

How about if you split the property? Subdivide it and have everything filed with county/state.

She gets the house, and you get the barn/garage and parking area for work?

If the area is zoned for residential, You may have to do a bit of work on the barn to create a simple apartment over the garage/barn so that it isn’t strictly a business in a residentially zoned area.

The people here have all been through what you are going through now. We have taken out individual different paths to get out of Hell. Some have swept everything under rug, pretended nothing happened, had revenge affairs, stayed in empty and pretend marriages until the kids graduated from school, or gotten divorced and moved on with their lives. Although I do not agree with the advice everyone gives, I will say that you have been given advice that covers the entire spectrum. But through it all, you have handled yourself brilliantly. You have been dealt a blow that is crippling. But you have gotten up, dusted yourself off, lifted your head up and pushed your shoulders back. I know that you may not believe this, but you have handled this very well! You have made a decision of who you are, what is in your best interest, and you are moving towards it.

Years from now, I believe that you will be able to look back on this time, and when you look at your conduct and actions, you will be able to do so with pride. Your children, while in pain themselves caused by their mother, are looking at you and are putting you up on a pedestal because they are seeing how a loved one deals with such a devastating situation. They are thinking to themselves that if they ever had to deal with a betrayal, personal loss, or calamity, they hope that they could be able to handle it with 1/4 of the strength and character that their father has.

I’m sure that in the future, men who have discovers they have been cheated upon will be sent to your threads to see an example of how strong and confident men should deal with the this Hell.

So, believe or not, the most difficult part is now behind you. You know what you want and what course you are going to take. Congratulations. There will still be bad moments and days ahead, but those moments and days will become less and less I their intensity and the space between them will increase.

Many people who look at grief say that the 5th stage is “acceptance”, but this is technically wrong. The 5th stage is actually “Acceptance and/or Hope”. I believe that you have reached this point. You have accepted what she has done and the all of the results of her actions. She is no where near this stage. At best, she is balancing between stages 2 and 3 (anger and bargaining) with a little of stage 4 (depression) thrown in there. I believe that while you still hurt, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. The light is getting t bigger and brighter. And you can tell they once you get out of the tunnel, it is going to be a bright sunny summer day, with the potential for anything.

The situation is very different for your cheater. She may now

Be realizing that the light at the end of her tunnel that is growing bigger and brighter is actually a freight train heading straight for her. That is why she is willing to offer anything and everything. She is becoming to the realization that the ONLY thing that can save her reputation, her relationship with her kids and extended family members, her standing in the community, church, and profession, as well as her lifestyle and standard of living is YOU and your complete acceptance of the long term affair and reconciliation. She NEEDS to be seen walking into church or down the street holding your hand and very often turning towards you to give you a kiss. That is why she is now beginning to offer you everything under the sun. And her offers will become more extreme and maybe even bazaar. It is the ONLY thing that can save her!!!!

Moving forward, I strongly recommend that you start seeing a

Counselor. As I’ve said, you have been handling everything exceptionally well, but it always helps to have quality professional to talk to. For me, I needed someone to help me with my fear of having trust issues and my anger.

I also suggest that you may want to try and find a way to help

Your employee that just discovered he too had a cheating wife. It sounds like he is sweeping everything under the rug. Shortly after I discovered my wife was cheating, I found 2 guys

at work had been in similar situation. One had to deal with it a long time previously, and the other one, I believe, a

Year before. Our group ultimately grew to its present size of 5. It is very therapeutic to be able to talk face to face with those that have been in or are in your situation. It feels great to be able to help others in their time of despair.

So, I didn’t mean for this to be this long, and for that I apologize

Continue to be strong.

Good luck

And when you finally do take that last step out of the dark tunnel and into the the sunlight, be proud of yourself for what you have done when thrown into Hell and how you marched straight out of it!

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 9:04 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Initially she said she'd do anything.

Nope she lied because now you discover 'anything' has conditions: you give her another chance and she gets to live in the house forever.

Exactly. This is the behavior of someone who is regretful but NOT remorseful. And it reveals the underlying substance which is an attempt to salvage plan B (you) and protect herself above all.

Why have a poly if you're moving forward with divorce? It's meaningless and in some ways provides her with a false sense of R.

Get your attorney and file. Start the process and look forward with your life.

AH

Why dont you just ask her what you need? Timeline, answers to specific questions (about planning to leave you, about the AC in OM House incidente, etc) An ask her if she would be willing to take a Poly. Tell her that you can not forgive what you dont know; and even if you were able to R, this would be the 1 step. If she bargain on It, or refuse the Poly, you Will know all you need to know.

In reagard of you Daugther, I Belice you should just let her know of the facts in the call. Your impressions, even if requested, Will just involve your DD even more in the meses. Please notice that even the call was to ene for good the A, what your WW agreed, and promissed, to your DD for her help is titally other thing. Maybe your WW told your DD that there was NC and she wont Contact OM, along other things like that WW really loves you and not OM. Rey call mean that she played her DD as well, and I think thats why she is very angry

AH

IMO as D is for sure, your WW has nothing to loose by answering your questions. By doing It she Will prove that she is un 100% and she has stop lying. You should tell her this.

It is human nature to be afraid of change, fear of the unknown is a defense mechanism meant to protect us from putting ourselves in harms way.

Your wife is in self preservation mode because she is afraid of the unknown. She knows her life with you, it represents comfort and security, divorce is the unknown, the fears creep in about financial abilities, retirement, living situation, etc.

The reality is that your wife checked out of the marriage long ago, she was no happier in the marriage than as you are now but her fear of the unknown drives her to the lesser of 2 evils, you.

If this was not true she wouldn't have had a 2 year affair and we are all sure that had the AP given the word she would have dumped you in a heart beat to run off with him. Now, since that door has closed, she trying to hang tightly on to plan B but the truth is, in the long run D will make both of you happier.

You will not be able to live with her after what she has done and you won't be able to live with yourself if you try. It won't be long before she wonders back to the same mindset that made her unhappy enough to cheat in the past. A 2 year affair is not a one night drunken mistake it represents a significant portion of your history with her and it can't be undone.

There are cases where I'm a big proponent of R but in this case R is simply a life sentence to misery for you both.

[This message edited by leftbroken at 10:19 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

As a successful realtor your wife is very situationally aware - plus she is an expert in reading you (she knows all your hot buttons, including your reluctance to date and/or be alone).

She also knows you are a white knight and have a natural tendency to want to rescue her (even in your pain).

It's not by accident that you waiver after listening to her stories of 'suffering' and 'hard work' to make herself a safe partner and regain her family.

It's part of her strategy and why she believes that if she can get you to play husband & wife for a year - the white knight will rescue her.

I wanted to respond to your comments but today seems to be one of those bad days. I want to vent here because I have nowhere else to go.Bad argument with both my wife and son. I'm holding myself not to blow everything up. He has always been mama's spoiled boy while I have always been the discipline enforcer. I just wanted to talk to him man to man and present to him all the possibilities including a scenario where we could lose our business, all I wanted to do was to assure him that he will be fine regardless. I don't know what he told his mom but she came to me thinking that I told him that she was going after my business. she was crying and blaming me for trying to worsen her relationship with the kids. I was first calm and explained that wasn't the case and that he is not a kid anymore he is almost a 21 years old man. she said that she made it clear that she was willing to give out her rights to everything including the business. she said that I'm not looking for solutions at this moment. I had enough and told her to leave the basement and never come down. I went outside and was surprised to see my son still there when he was supposed to be helping in a job site. I asked him what the f he was doing he said he quit. I was so mad I almost called the lawyer and asked to go nuclear option, if it wasn't for the moral responsibility to inform my other employees. I went for a long drive and started wondering what my life would look like once I end my business and file for D. I started preparing what I would tell my guys, it is fucking sad. My wife texted me later apologizing saying it was a mama bear response she wanted to make sure that her son is protected, I told her I'm the last one you should worry about protecting your kids from because I can give my life for them, she said she wanted to make sure that our problems do not affect our kids.

I' fucking sad, I feel weak. I am weak . I' am easily influenced like if I don't have strong ground to base my decision on. the comments here influence me easily so are her words and when I read Oldlion posts I'm influenced too. why? because I'm weak that's it. let me admit something, I cherry-pick some of the comments here so I can direct the influence. I keep reading Thomus comments over and over so I can eliminate all other influences. is it healthy or right? I don't think so but for a guy like me I'd say fuck it. I'm done.

I'm sorry if I'm wasting your time I really am. I'm typing this while fucking crying like a baby, this isn't supposed to be me.

I talked to my lawyer and he informed me that her giving up her rights to both properties doesn't mean much in my state. it would only give me the sole power to manage them like if I wanted to sell or rent. but if we divorce I still won't be able to deny her anything. so after all she isn't offering much.

So basically her offer is symbolic. But practically doesn’t really amount to anything.

Doesn’t seem like it’s worth another year with her for that.

Just saw your post.

You’re not weak. You are gutted. She has eviscerated you. It’s not weakness it’s pain.

Man you’re in the thick of it right now. You’re going to be raw. Your emotions will be up and down for a while.

And I can tell you it’s normal and I can tell you it’s expected, but that sure as hell isn’t going to make it any easier to experience.

I can say cut yourself some slack. Deep breaths. You will get through this.

Edited....Just wanted to add some thing. Do not internalize her poor decisions. And do not internalize her behavior. This will keep you from beating yourself up. Keep the focus of your anger where it belongs.

[This message edited by ramius at 10:56 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

So basically her offer is symbolic. But practically doesn’t really amount to anything.

Don't want to rub salt into your wounds, but it's probable that being a realtor herself, your wife knew all along how symbolic her offer was.

You are handling a lot - none of which you asked for - right now. It’s very normal to be completely shattered.

You really only have two choices - let it define you or move forward. You’ll get through this.

she said she wanted to make sure that our problems do not affect our kids.

AYFKM? That's RICH.

Hang in there, AH - that is why they call it the rollercoaster. You are not weak - as Ramius said, you are in PAIN. And now, thanks to your WW who could not be faithful to you and was downright cruel to you, your kids are now affected. Her fault, not yours. Don't worry about your son - he will come around - he's in pain too and pain/fear makes you say and do things out of character.

Keep posting. You're not cherry picking - you are taking what you need and leaving the rest. You don't have to do anything you do not want to do because we recommended it.

Sending strength...