SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's just so odd to me that she was a "good" wife and mother for 36 years and now it's like she's gone completely insane.

When you are dealing with things like Cluster B personality disorders, it's very easy to make excuses for them until you are staring the stark reality in the face: they really do NOT care about you, the family, etc., etc.

It's like the fable about the frog in the pot. Put a frog in a pot of boiling water and they will do their best to get out. Put a frog in a pan of cool water and slowly inch the heat upward and they will not. Living with a Cluster B disorder partner is like being a frog in the cool water that starts getting jacked up.

Because YOU are rational and view things through a relatively normal lens, you don't think that your partner is totally lacking in empathy or really sees you as their minion or extension, not as a separate person with feelings and perhaps different goals and ideals.

Rational people recognize individuality. We understand that a difference of opinion is just that: a difference of opinion. Certainly there are varying degrees of seriousness in differences of opinion, but we recognize for the most part that they are separate people and have separate ideas.

A Cluster B personality disordered person does not see this. To them, other people are extensions of them, and they certainly "must" share their views and perspectives. When they do not, it causes an "injury" which angers them. These people lack empathy in general and make very poor partners because they have no idea of a true relationship with give and take on both sides (I always say that my ex was really good at give and take--as long as I gave and he took).

Looking back, the signs were all there. Even when we were dating. It seemed harmless and even fun that he was so unashamedly self-indulgent (I was raised to be the opposite).

Had I known or had any idea that self-indulgent would be affairs, financial infidelity and generally declaring war on anything that was important to me (especially involving our children in his anger against me), I would have run for the hills and never looked back.

Cat

What tiredofcrying59 said . . .

[This message edited by c24j at 6:41 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

I understand your uncertainty about reconciliation even though she treated you despicably.

However, you must get out of infidelity. If she has changed all her passwords then you must demand to be given her new ones. If she refuses just tell her any small chance of reconciliation is now lost and you will be divorcing her with no other chances.

Stay strong on this and do not waiver.

Since you are/were a logical thinker, shaken up quite a bit, and you are still trying to understand your WW and triggering, perhaps some insight might help you.

First of all, your WW violated your trust. This is evident and obvious, but you should understand the value of the concept trust to understand how much you have been violated. On a daily basis time after time you engage in trust-interactions. When you step into your car you expect that it will work and after multiple times you trust your car to work and bring you where ever you want to go to. This is the same with other things, during opening hours you expect and trust that the store will be open so you can buy your food. Etcetera. With regard to people, you trust your friends to be good to you. As one other poster here on SI pointed out; Humans are trust creatures. Without trust, there can be no high quality social interactions. Cheaters say, sex is only human, but they miss the point that trust is even more human and hardwired in humans as a core valuable thing since it is critical for human relations and interactions in daily life. You have been hit in your trust-system and it is damaged by your WW. Hence, you exploded when she asked you to sleep in the bed and you and her agreed under the condition of no physical intimacy and she violated that condition. It is only logical that you triggered. My point is, understand the value of 'trust' and you see where you have damage and can make repairs. This can only be done by excluding your wife (180) because she continues to damage your trust-system. I hope this brings some understanding.

Also, here on SI it has also been raised that being cheated upon can drive you insane, since the lies and deceit can make you start to doubt your judgmental capabilities and shake you up in the sense that all what you believed was true (e.g., the happy marriage) was not the case and an illusion and that there was a hidden reality that you did not see but think you should have seen. It was all not your fault. And this also relates to trust, the trust that you had put in the other to not deceive you, and the trust that you now need to re-find in yourself.

I hopes this gives you a bit of an understanding and that it helps in finding your way out of all this mess. You are your own best friend, detach from your wife for your own good, and the more you focus on YOU and your own new life the better it will go. A final point, limit/manage the talks with your wife, they easily escalate or let you be manipulated.

I wish you well, strength!

I talked to her last night. She cried, and begged and pleaded against divorce. Suddenly I am her one and only. The "craziness" has passed; she didn't know what she was doing...blah, blah, blah.

Then she pledged her love and body to me alone and claimed there will be no affairs in the future.

There was no screaming and cursing coming from her, so her comments were almost convincing. I say almost because whenever I close my eyes I can see the POSOM on top of her or in her mouth and I want to puke.

She once again gave me all her passwords. Though I'm sure I don't have those for any secret accounts.

She accessed my Facebook account and changed my status from Separated to Married (adding since 1981). I guess I'll have to change my passwords.

I am in the high tech field and deal with a lot of network security issues and am expecting to land a huge contract with one or more branches of the military within the next year or so. I asked her if she would agree to a post-nuptial agreement on the off-chance we don't get divorced. She said yes.

So here we are, 28 days since the huge Dday. It's been like riding the world's largest roller coaster, all the stomach aches and nausea, but without the fun.

I feel like I've aged 10 years in a month and, oddly, she looks like she has suddenly become years older too.

I've read back over my posts and it all seems so unreal. This has changed me into a man I don't wish to be. It's taken a physical, emotional and mental toll I never thought possible. And now I'm a whiner telling strangers my troubles. Sorry about that.

If you had asked me a year ago where I would've been a year later it would be light years from where I am now.

I am seeing a doctor tomorrow.

What basis do you have to believe her? What has changed? 36, you are emotionally vulnerable now. You'll need distance from her before you can begin to think more clearly. She is a master manipulator.

Read and employ the 180.

Glad your seeing a doc.

What basis do you have to believe her? What has changed? 36, you are emotionally vulnerable now. You'll need distance from her before you can begin to think more clearly. She is a master manipulator.

I really have no basis to believe her. I need time combined with verifiable actions. I know I am emotionally vulnerable and need to focus on reality instead of what I hope is true. I'm trying.

You do not have to make a decision right now. You can just wait to see if her actions follow her words, which is what I would recommend. The pressure needs to be on her to prove to you that she will make herself a safe partner.

Take care.

Sometimes the impending possibility of divorce snaps a wayward out of their fog and they are sincere in their desire to make amends and reconcile. Do her actions match her words? Are you sure you're done with her? If there is a path for her back to your heart, and you want to fix this and stay together, then you should show her that path. Let her know what you need to heal and acknowledge her when/if she does those things.

You're fairing far better than others sometimes do in these situations. You may have a truly remorseful WW. You know her best. Forget about what anyone here thinks. What do you think?

I believe it was you I said this to.

Be ready, When you stand up and be assertive she will want you and the marriage like nothing other.

My spouse was absolutely a fruit cake when we went through the DD aftermath. The affair gives them such an over inflated ego. When the divorce proceedings started....I was the sexiest I had ever been to him. He was so attracted to myself esteem.

Do you have children? If no, Don't stop the proceedings.

What newcomers to infidelity do not understand. This doesn't go away. What is the motivation for keeping the marriage?

Don't say love. A rational human being can't love an adulterer. We have been so used to loving our spouse we say love as a reason to reconcile.

Time moves on, you get emotionally stronger. Then you are in the midst of reconciliation.

Legally seperate. See if she can meet all of your requirements of R.

Your wife thought you were weak and a push-over. She thought she was smarter than you.

She isn't. And you are none of those things. She isn't worthy of the man you are.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 11:15 AM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

I really have no basis to believe her. I need time combined with verifiable actions

This. 100%.

And if she is truly remorseful and understands how deeply she has hurt you and how she has to truly earn back your trust and respect, she'll be willing to put in the time and the effort. If she isn't, you'll see efforts go from all-in to ho-hum and she'll get angry and defensive that you don't trust her after she's worked on the marriage all of 5 whole minutes.

Cat

We drove off and I suggested I drop her off at the OM's house so she could get the full taste of what it is like to live with someone who will get the benefit of sex without the responsibility of marriage.

36yearsgone

This is it. Your value is security. She had a division of labor with you and the OM providing her needs. She had a great life and wanted to keep both of you. When she was forced to choose one she made the smart choice and picked security. She’s getting on in years after all. As the years pass security will outweigh sex more and more.

I am in the high tech field and deal with a lot of network security issues and am expecting to land a huge contract with one or more branches of the military within the next year or so. I asked her if she would agree to a post-nuptial agreement on the off-chance we don't get divorced. She said yes.

36yearsgone

Stop torturing yourself. Get a divorce now. That makes a statement and you can live with each other unmarried if you want to. If I had your history divorce would be very cathartic.

EDIT: On second thought it would be very easy for her to stall the divorce until after contract. Get the post-nuptial right away. She wants a comfortable future and money will do it for her with or without you. .

She has always been able to handle you. The post nup will let her think she's still in control.

Make sure the post nup will hold up.

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:18 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

36

She doesn’t just get to say “sorry, bygones, I’m yours again”. Go read the Wayward Side of this forum and see the hoops WS’s go thru just to get their BSs to consider working on reconciliation with them.

IT TAKES YEARS of hard work.

From different threads here I have pulled nearly 2 dozen items she needs to start and that’s probably only the tip of the iceberg.

And by the way, she can do this while you still start D proceedings.

Is she up for that challenge? She was brutal in her betrayal. From hearing about it from your side I’d say she’s not.

Are you up for even letting her try?

This will be a long road ahead of you.

And by the way, added to this list I would say that she has to help report what this guy is doing to the authorities. If she is truly remorseful for what she did she will no longer want to protect him. In fact she should want to save others from his attacks.

Good luck

Examples of what to put in a plan to becoming safe and working toward R.

1) a letter of NC to the OM that you see and approve and watch her send.

2) real NC. Meaning if she works with him she quits her job so she can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact her she does not respond and she tells you. If he persists your lawyer can send him a cease and desist.

3) she writes out a full timeline of the A. Full details. And you review it with her.

4) she writes you a letter of apology telling you why she thinks she did what she did and what it would mean to her to have you stay and work on the marriage.

It should include:

- how sorry she is for what she has done - why she thinks it happened - how she would have felt if you had been the one to do this - what she is willing to do to ensure this never happens again - how she knows what she did will change your relationship forever - how she knows that she has put you in a terrible position of now having to monitor her for the rest of your lives. -why she decided to stay with you instead of leaving you for the other man?

5) she agree to a polygraph. You may or may not have her do it, but don't tell her that. If she really wants R she will agree

6) you both do IC. Her to figure out why she was willing to go beyond her vows. You so you can work thru the pain. You should do this whether you head for D or R.

7) at a later point you might start MC to work on what was missing from the M. But only after you both work on yourselves first.

8) Expose. The affair needs to be exposed to both your families and close friends. They need to be able to help you make it thru this R. Doing it alone with just the both of u and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If she is truly remorseful you will both go to them together and she will admit what's she has done and what she is doing to make herself a safe partner for you. If she is not willing to do this, then probably just end it here and move forward with D.

9) contact the OBS. You do it. She should help you. If she is truly remorseful she will want to do that for you. You should want to do it because it's the right thing to do for the OBS. If she won't tell her then tell her I can only assume you are protecting him because you are still in the A with him and you'll be getting the D papers this week.

10) look at implementing a postnup. Others here can give you more details on how this works.

11) she provides open access to all her technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. If not then she's obviously more interested in having secrets than your M.

12) No more going out without disclosing where she is. If "going out with the girls" or "attending after work happy hours alone" has been an excuse to meet with AP in the past, then that ends

13) no more meeting alone with a man. No lunches, dinners, drinks whatever. If she has to do so for business it only happens at places of business and not behind closed doors. She informs you of when this is necessary and with whom and for how long. Social Happy Hours (outside of actual work functions) are to be attended together or not attended at all.

14) Does all required reading. "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal..." etc.

15) find a friend or family member for you to confide in. You shouldn't be going thru this alone.

16) STD testing for u both. Visual proof of the results is required.

17) no new affairs. If so D papers will be served. No lies about relationships with others any more. If so we are done.

18) Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our life. Never be done answering questions about it.

19) No conversations about our marriage or any other marriage with another man/woman unless your spouse is ok to talk to someone specific about it.

20) No one comes in to our home without both us knowing.

21) Communication- No secrets, no matter how hard it will be to hear. Discuss all attractions. Discuss all third party attention. Discuss all feelings good and bad. Be honest with yourself and aware of your feelings, then communicate that to your spouse.

22) We don't do anything in absence of one another that we wouldn't do in the others presence.

Again friend, you can only decide how to proceed out of infidelity. But if you use the power of the brain trust here you will see that the most successful BS's find happiness sooner by acting from a stance of strength not weakness as you have been doing.

It may be thru R (which will take years of hard work but may be worth it to you) or D, but in the end you will be happier and feel better about standing up for yourself and your family.

36, I totally understand how you feel. My ww was somehow instantly wanting to do anything to save our marriage . I remember thinking WTF? I do think its that if they could have both they would, but when they have to choose, they choose the marriage.

I told my wife that winning back my trust would be the hardest thing shes ever had to do. I meant it and 2 years later she is still earning her way back. My wife was willing to do the work neccessary for R. The thing you have to figure out is what do you need your wife to do if you decide to give the gift of R ? If thats the road you want to go down you have to have an idea what that might look like. It doesnt mean you give her the gift now. But figure out what you would expect of her. Also nothing wrong with telling her if she changes her passwords again you are finished. She should be willing to be an open book to you if she wants to save this marriage.

My ww was somehow instantly wanting to do anything to save our marriage . I remember thinking WTF? I do think its that if they could have both they would, but when they have to choose, they choose the marriage.

1survivor

Yes, marriage equals a stable and secure old age.

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:28 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

She asked me to lunch today. We met at a neutral location. I offered to buy lunch for an off-duty cop (friend of mine), if he would sit somewhere in the restaurant where he could observe our interaction in case there was trouble.

I joined her for lunch and she started pouring her out again. Apologizing for everything in a total repeat of previous conversations.

Then she told me that when she even considered my thoughts while laying naked with the other guy, she figured that I probably wouldn't care because I hadn't been paying much attention to her at the time. This is bullshit.

She said she thought that the worst that would happen would be that I would have a revenge affair. Everything could then be even and we would then go on as before. What kind of convoluted thinking is that? More freaking bullshit.

Then one of my sons walks in the door and joins us at the table. Unbeknownst to me, she invited him. He then proceeds to tell me that his mother, my wife, is very remorseful and that I am traumatizing her by questioning her remorse. What a crock.

I told him that in order for me to accept her as remorseful that her words need to be combined with sustained long term action; otherwise I would be doing all of us a disservice by sweeping things under the rug. I am not willing to do that.

I felt ambushed. But I'm taking mental notes now and beginning to learn.

He then proceeds to tell me that his mother, my wife, is very remorseful and that I am traumatizing her by questioning her remorse.

36yearsgone

Does your son know what his mother did or more importantly said in full? Or does he just know that she had an affair?

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:39 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

Does your son know what his mother did and more importantly said in full? Or does he just know that she had an affair?

He just knows she had an affair and who it was with.

can she prove when her last contact was with lover boy?

has she filed charges against lover boy?

she is not sorry for your pain.

She is still protecting him and not you and the marriage.

Tell her to sign the post nup.

Stop all contact. What about a timeline?

She can try to date you after the D.

any stds? She does not care about you.

Did she really use her own child in order to get her way?

Wow!

Does she really except you to give in to her so she can be happy?