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36 what your wife is trying to do is control the outcome. It is very important that you are in control. You might want to tell her not to try to use your kids to sway you . That was a desperate move. She needs to understand that the only way out of this is one step at a time at your pace not hers.

The trust that she destroyed will take some time to build. Continue to watch her actions.

Your wife is a manipulator par excellence. To use your so on in this manner is is so cold and calculating is beyond belief.

And is it possible to feel remorse without empathy?

She is a really nasty piece of work and while I am usually pro reconciliation in your case I think you will be better off without her in your life.

He just knows she had an affair and who it was with.

No wonder that after 36 years of marriage you're the bad guy. I don't blame your son given what he knows. All he sees is his mom panicked as hell and you will not give her another chance over one little mistake. He's a good son.

Have her tell him what she said (she can leave the sex details out). After that you and your son can talk again without her around.

[This message edited by Michigan at 4:23 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

He then proceeds to tell me that his mother, my wife, is very remorseful and that I am traumatizing her by questioning her remorse.

As you can see, it's still all about her.

SHE is traumatized? Oh Good Lordy!

I felt ambushed.

That's because you were ambushed. Involving your son in a discussion about your marriage after her affair is yet one more low blow on your wife's part. This time, it was against both you and your son.

Wow, 36, she has proven my point. She is a master manipulator.

Using your son? Despicable.

This is not a sign of a remorseful spouse. It is action of someone who wants to control the outcome, she has absolutely no empathy for you.

36y

Please listen to me when I tell you that your wife is NOT who you think she is.

Based on your descriptions, I believe that she has some cluster-b personality disorder symptoms if not a full blown disorder. This makes her an EXCEEDINGLY dangerous person to be around alone.

Do not make the mistake of trying to rationalize irrational behavior. Everything that she has done is because she feels like it, up to and including pleading with you to give her a chance...

A few things to chew on...

1. This is almost certainly not her first affair

2. You only know a tiny fraction about what actually has gone on

3. Literally everything she says to you at this time, whether true or not, is targeted for maximum impact in manipulating you

I will send you a PM with a link to a breakup guide. Please take a moment to look up BPD and HPD symptoms and see if they match up with what you are seeing.

I am going through something very similar to you right now, please feel free to PM me with any thoughts or questions.

Good luck.

Did she really use her own child in order to get her way?

Wow!

Does she really except you to give in to her so she can be happy?

Yes and probably.

Perhaps you could fill your son in on how deeply depraved your WW has become, just as you have here...don't spare the details.

If you can't bring yourself to do that, just tell him politely to butt-out because he doesn't know the real story, only what

"mother" decided to tell.

You need to have a private conversation with your son. He doesn't need the sexual details. But he can certainly be told how she's told you she's only sorry she was caught...how she had OM come to your house..and how she tried to have you arrested for DV.

Then you can tell him that you appreciate that he loves his mother, but as his father, you would expect him to understand you are the traumatized person here, and he needs to not involve himself as her mouth piece.

^^^ Spot on @ HellFire!

36,

I was shocked to read about the 'ambush'. Talk about dirty fighting. Bringing a child into the middle of these things is always desperate, but it really is a 'low' thing to do. She ought to be ashamed of herself, but that's probably an understatement, given recent history.

I know that you do not want to get into an argument with your son, particularly when your wife set up another ambush after the false DV police call, but a fair point to make to your son is this:

Your mother did not cheat on you; she cheated on me. Maybe you are fine with what she did, but maybe I am not. And maybe you ought to have enough respect for my feelings and my pain, as the victim of the repeated cheating, to allow me to work through my feelings on my own, without you butting in. When your wife cheats on you, you will understand what I am going through. Until then, you have no idea what you are talking about. And you have no idea of what actually went on, so you have no right to tell me that I ought to be forgiving it. I do not appreciate being ambushed this way, and if it happens again, I will get up, walk out, and file for divorce. I hope both of you hear that, and take it to heart, because ambushes like this are just making things worse.

You were very wise to have that off-duty cop there, and your gut instinct was right; your wife sprang an ambush on you. I think you should avoid any further meetings that your wife tries to stage, because you have no idea what she may try and set up. What next? Will she get the group of friends she was bad-mouthing you to to show up in the middle of lunch and call you names because you won't let your WW off the hook?

I am sorry you are being put through one ordeal after another. The mind boggles. And your wife's suggestion that if you have a revenge affair and introduce yet more infidelity into the marriage it will somehow balance everything out and make it fine to go on is just staggering. What is the point of a marriage where everyone cheats? Does she even understand what a marriage is supposed to be for?

My heart goes out to you, it seems like you have to face a fresh crazy situation every few days. The only positive thing coming out of it is that you are learning the benefits of protecting yourself. It is also very good that you are going to see your doctor. You have to be your own best friend, and your strongest ally in these situations.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:03 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

Your son is old enough to know every damn detail IMHO

I'm now pretty much certain she has a lot of Cluster B personality disorder traits, if not a full-blown disorder of some sort. Involving your adult child is a low blow, and yes, it was an ambush.

From this point on:

1.) No meetings with her whatsoever. If she wants to communicate something to you, she uses email. No calls, no texts, nada.

2.) File. She needs to understand that manipulation of this sort is not something you take lightly. I would also consider filing a restraining order on the OM (provided your attorney agrees) and filing some sort of financial restraining order that restricts both parties from spending money on non-essential things.

3.) I agree with Hellfire's suggestion and M1965's statement, only I would leave out the part about the divorce. Tell them you have filed for divorce because you do not see any remorse or attempts to heal YOUR hurt--that everything has been about HER and what SHE wants and that is NOT a marriage--that is servitude. They may not agree with this, but you deserve respect for what you're going through.

4.) I hope your PCP can help you find a good IC. I would ask for one that has experience in victims of Cluster B personality disorders. She definitely has more than a few of the characteristics.

Chin up. You've got this. Stand tall and DO NOT fall for any of her lines again.

If she wants to communicate, she can send you an email.

Cat

What you wrote earlier, "False DV", would concern me right now. Currently, and like most cheaters, the threat of divorce has her begging and manipulating her son and you to stop you. The problem is, if she's willing to report a false DV then she's potentially willing to try to make you look as abusive as possible so she gets the lion's share of the settlement. The false DV suggests that she more worried about her future than yours. The point is that you need to protect yourself; carry a VAR and, like you did buying a PO friend lunch, have a witness of your interactions with her. And you might let your son know that this isn't his battle and it's a bad time to be taking sides; especially when he doesn't know the whole story.

[This message edited by Dismayed2012 at 6:30 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

Yes 36, yet another set up. Manipulative to the core.

Her view of marriage is that the score is evened by cheating, not by remaining faithful.

But you are learning. You are seeing the patterns of her behavior.

Her actions post DD are still all about her. She changed employers but promptly gave the inhabitants of the cesspool her new phone number.

I'm not the least bit curious what she told your son because I know she minimized the adultery out of existence. And bad mouthed you.

That orchestrated lunch was abusive and disrespectful.

Was I wrong for sending my wife and her posom each a bouquet of condoms?

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 9:23 PM, October 4th (Wednesday)]

LMAO!!!

36, glad to see she hasn't gotten you arrested or killed yet.

Do you see how good your gut is???? You KNEW to have that off-duty cop there.

Keep following your gut.

You need to file to protect yourself. She continues contact with people who are not friends of your marriage. She has villianized you to them. She loved the affair.

She tried the false DV.

R is a waste of time.

Tell your kids what the hell is going on.

As others have pointed out you need to stay away from her completely for the time being. Direct everything through your attorney. There is NO need whatsoever to engage her.

36, answer me this, did your wife display any of this craziness before this affair? Has she shown any of this crazy logic?

I know you love her, but she doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed.

It's one thing to be in an affair fog, but wanting you dead along with all the countless other things she's said and done!!! She's freakin crazy and capable of ANYTHING!!!