SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know this may seem to be unbelievable, but you are handling everything relatively well.

Yes, there will be huge emotional swings and you will find yourself questioning every decision you make.

Good luck with your meeting with the lawyer tomorrow.

Take care of yourself and the kids. Force yourself to eat at least one meal a day. If you need to, get protein drinks and have them. If you are having a difficult time sleeping, talk to your doctor about getting something to help you out. Just as your body runs on food, your brain runs on sleep!

Also, I found that working out was a great way to deal with my frustration and anger. I bought a heavy punching bag and hung it in the basement. When I needed to burn off some of negative feelings, I would go downstairs and beat the hell out of the bag. If you do get one, make sure you get gloves as well.

Good luck

Stay strong

And I promise that you will get through this hell that she has put you in.

I agree with the others that you’re being a little hard on yourself about the emotional distance you’ve had with your WW. She dragged spanish asshole into your relationship and never dropped him. You brought it up over the years so she had to have known that was a big part of your frayed connection. Her solution to the problems caused by having a third party in your M all these years was to add even more people to her side of the equation.

I already have some health issues I have gotten over the last year I think are from the stress of this and struggle with that.

Did she acknowledge the damage to your health she’s been causing? Did she say whether or not she knew at the time she was the cause of your stress?

Also agree with the DNA recommendations. I know you feel like you can’t take another hit right now and that’s certainly valid. Not saying you should rush out and do it today, after all it’s not going to change anything. But I think once the shock starts to wear off that’s going to be something that starts to eat at you.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 8:54 AM, June 3rd (Thursday)]

You can do the DNA thing via 23andMe, make it a family thing. doesn't have to be an explicit paternity test.

I'll also say within by extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) I've discovered an uncle and two cousins that I never knew I had before, thanks to the DNA testing.

Surprise!

Wow, so sorry for you but glad that you are getting more information. Unfortunately, there's probably more but at this point I'm not sure it would matter.

If I didn't have kids, that wouldn't be on the table, but having kids makes it harder for me.

Please don't stay because of the kids. They pick up everything and your marriage is not a healthy one they need to witness.

Ultimately we got back together but things were never the same from that point. There were good times and bad but never great like they were.

Her cheating, in one form or another, has undermined your relationship since its very beginnings. She really can't blame you for any lack of affection or any lack of intimacy. It's ALL on her. It's really hard to get close to someone, to trust them, to reach that level of emotional intimacy she claims to have craved all along, since the very beginning, when your entire relationship has been riddled with multiple acts of infidelity. Even the undiscovered acts of infidelity greatly affect the level of emotional/physical intimacy between a couple. Intuitively the BS is aware that something is terribly wrong and knowingly the WS is aware that something is terribly wrong and that drives the wedge. All your past couples therapy was a total waste of time since she was, throughout the entire course, dishonest. The therapeutic intervention was based on a foundation of lies and omissions.

IMHO not only is 100% of the cheating on her but also, 100% of HER dissatisfaction with the marriage, and an ample portion of YOUR dissatisfaction, is on her as well. She screwed it up from the start and did her level best to keep it screwed up. Seems like she never gave it a chance. Your relationship, your courtship, and your entire marriage never had a chance.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:13 AM, June 3rd (Thursday)]

Ice what a mess. Sorry you're having to experience this!!

This is just me, but reading between the lines I get a sense that your goal when all is said and done is to attempt reconciliation.

I'm not here to sway you one way or another. However I do want you to really think about why you would be attempting to do this?

Is it because you want to make things work with your WW despite all the horrible things she's done? That you love her?

Is it for your kids?

That you don't want to blow up their world (which by the way your wife would be responsible for doing this)?

Or is it you're afraid of the future?

Meaning yes you'd more than likely have custody of the kids with alimony but would this be enough to cover your expenses?

Thus you'd have to find employment.

Wondering what you would do?

How would this effect the day to day care of your kids?

Is the fear of all of this unknown overwhelming to you?

So much so that you'd be willing to stay where you are (with your wife) despite how horrible things are because dealing with this is less daunting than starting a new life without her? And taking on all the responsibilities that go along with it?

She's been the provider.

She handled the finances.

She handled paying the bills.

Wondering if this is something you could take on because you've been out of all of this for awhile?

I know all of this can be overwhelming, but you can do it, you need to believe this!!

If you're going to stay with your wife and try to make this work PLEASE make sure you're doing it for the right reason.

Either way can (and will be) fearful.

Just don't give in and go the route that's less fearful.

Please give this some thought.

[This message edited by Booyah at 10:28 AM, June 3rd (Thursday)]

What a cluster**** Iceman.

I have to add my opinion on reporting the so called 'masseuse'. Please listen to your attorney when you get one. He/She will be able to guide you through the correct process to handle this. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. The attorney will know the right way. This needs to be done correctly to make anything stick.

Regarding DNA testing for your kids. As painful as this may be for you it needs to be done. Not for your sake. It's for the kids benefit in case a health issue would arise in the future. As stated before you can purchase a test yourself and send it in and the results will be mailed to you in several weeks. I have a good friend who had to do this in a similar situation as yours. He was very glad he did.

Your wife doesn't love you or respect you. It sounds like she never did. You owe her nothing.

You are handling yourself well in spite of the hand you have been dealt. Keep moving forward.

You got this.

She had alot of abandonment issues from her parents when she was younger, and I know she is the type of person that needs alot of verbal affirmation, and I am not the type of person that is good at giving it.

Imagine a sink with no strainer. You gave a a bit of affirmation (you turn on the water tap a little) and it goes in the drain. You could have turned on the water tap to the max (lot’s of affirmation) and the sink still doesn’t fill up.

It doesn’t matter how much attention, affirmation, compliments you give her, it will never be enough.

Hopefully she will seek help. Because even if you D, she will still be the mother of your children.

In the overwhelming cases here when a BS begins to tell the story of a LTA, the WS has had other affairs prior, during and after the LTA. I had the gut feeling your “wife” was only giving you the tip of the iceberg. Brace yourself, there could be more. And she’s confessing to take some load off her and place on you.

I’m sorry dude.

She needs to write a timeline as others have suggested.

And she needs intense therapy - years of it to address her massive faults. And so do you.

Get an STI/STD test. Full panel.

And report this massage therapist to the regulators of his industry. He should have his license revoked. If anything you will be saving other marriages from this predator. Your wife is equally to blame for this but he as a professional health worker should never carry out an affair with a client. It’s reprehensible that he does. He needs to feel consequences.

Your wife is a serial liar.

If she remains in this marriage, she needs to leave this toxic profession she works in. She has to find another career where she’s home by 5.30 pm and not working on weekends.

If she’s genuinely wanting R she needs to find another job. She needs to initiate this.

R is a very, very hard process and no guarantees you’ll be able to get a positive result after years of pain. Your pain is just beginning. Brace yourself. For more lies, potentially more stories (of one night stands etc). Your wife has major issues. And her work is not the environment she should be in. She should find a job where she isn’t having meetings with men in inappropriate times.

I know that I have no reason to believe that is this finally all of it

While your gut may be telling this is all of it, that may be a jacked up response to trauma. Unfortunately, I doubt you have all of it. What you do have suggests you need to get out. She's a serial cheater. And that can only rarely be reconciled. I'm not sure I've heard of a case of a serial cheater successfully reconciling. Your marriage started off on the wrong foot because of her.

Even the undiscovered acts of infidelity greatly affect the level of emotional/physical intimacy between a couple. Intuitively the BS is aware that something is terribly wrong and knowingly the WS is aware that something is terribly wrong and that drives the wedge.

This ^^^^^^

Whatever apologizing you've done for the previous marriage needs to stop. You've been white knighting and rug sweeping for a long time. It's understandable. But it needs to end for your sake.

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "fruit of a poisonous tree" - your WW tainted and harmed your marriage from the very beginning.

Nope. Dude, she gave Mr. Goodhands FFM threesomes, and she paid him for it.

I have to say my spidey sense went off when you first disclosed this aspect to us at the beginning of the thread. It seemed very off and very strange that a middle-aged woman would commence a one-off affair and jump right into the freaky deaky. Suggests she's done this before, and is comfortable with being down and dirty with multiple people.

What you seem to be getting from her now is still a lot of elisions and omissions and minimizing. I don't think this is the end of it.

Holy frickin' cow, brother. We say all the time "this is who she is." We talk all the time here about the space alien "body snatchers" phenomenon of seeing an entirely different person in front of us than the wife we thought we married. It happened to me. It happened to all of us.

But your experience proves the theory in real time in spades.

This is not the wife you thought you had. Not even close. This is really who she is. It's ugly and dangerous to your mental and physical health. It hurts your kids. It drains your finances.

For your own sake, end it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:51 PM, June 3rd (Thursday)]

I can't see any reason she wouldn't tell me if there was more since we are already at this low.

You’re forgetting that cheaters, especially serial cheaters, have very messed up narratives in their heads. You can’t project on to them normal motives from your standpoint because that IS NOT how narcissists think. Please try to remember this and remember what you’re dealing with here.

There are many reasons for her to continue to lie.

Ultimately I should have gone back to therapy with her when she asked after our daughter was born and voiced my frustrations to the therapist. Maybe a third party mediating could have kept this whole thing from happening.

Think about what you’re saying here. Really think about it. Think about it from an outsiders’ perspective, like we’re seeing it.

We see this as you being severely traumatized by years of gaslighting and now being afraid of your own shadow.

This woman has abused you so badly you don’t know which way is up and you’re asking whether some couples counseling could have prevented your wife from endlessly screwing a succession of other men over the years.

Really think about that.

I’m not saying that to be cruel. I’m saying it to shake some sense into you.

Be careful with accepting responsibility. Its can sound noble but what's the real motivation?

Often accepting blame is something BS will do because it gives them (us, because i did it a bit) this false sense of control over thier partners fidelity. If I had been better at this, they wouldn't have cheated.

If I were you or had it to do all over again, I would point my speed boat due West full throttle and leave the WW on the dock with just enough material to build a raft and one paddle. Make her work her ass off to catch up or be left behind.

The serial adultery of your WW, Iceman, is entirely on her. It has absolutely nothing to do with any marital issues. They are two completely separate issues.

Marital issues are shared to some degree. That doesn't mean they are shared 50:50. It depends on what was in the baggage each brought to the marriage. It is my premise that your WW, like my XWW, brought a shitload with them. On top of that they brought lies that you sensed and I sensed but were lied to more and gaslighted.

When a spouse is keeping secrets it affects the relationship. Yours and mine. They are not all in. They are not fully committed. They keep some distance with the other spouse. You and me.

Then because there is some issue you sense and it affects how you relate to your spouse you get further gaslighted and accused. It is something they bring but you are at fault. All the while they are lying and, in your case, continuing to commit adultery. In my case it was the continued lying, gaslighting, etc. until the 25th year of our marriage when her LTA started. But, in reality, it started before we married. Sound familiar to you, Iceman?

All this is to say that there is nothing you did or did not do and nothing you said or did not say that caused your WW to be a serial cheater. That is her wiring for whatever reason. Please divorce yourself from those ideas.

An issue I saw was when you confessed to the wrong treatment to her. You did it with good intentions. Intentions to provide an opening for her to start truthfully open up. The problem, if she is like my XWW, is she will remember that and will use it as a weapon or a "but you did this or said that" against you.

Best of luck, Iceman. I wish for strength of mind and clarity of thought for you. Lots of input here in your thread to consider.

Please find the wives of these men that she cheated with, and let them know they've been betrayed.

How sad, really, it makes me very sad, because of you, it shows that you are a great man, and a fantastic father, your wife confirms the saying "once graceful, she is always ragged" from the bridegroom, it went to itself, from before that you get married, he went to bed with the Spanish. Really brother, I hope they are your biological children, this woman has caused you so much damage, that it would be horrible one more, you should start to focus on yourself, enroll in a gym, start doing physical activity, it will help you both mentally and physically, it will increase Your self-esteem, you deserve, a woman who resets you and loves you, who is worthy of you and your children, you really deserve it, you need to trust yourself more and know how great you are, both as a man and as a father.

Regarding the things that your wife is bringing to light, I really think that it is only the tip of the iceberg, there must be many more, as with money, the bad thing that exists, zero degree of credibility to your wife, She is a compulsive liar, with a VAR in her car.

You should start acting indifferent to her, try to speak as little as possible and try to go out, make friends, maybe when you start, attend a gym,

dedicate yourself to yourself and your children, it's the best,

Be open and honest with the attorney tomorrow and what can happen if they are not yours.

I think your wife has told you some of the truth but not the whole truth.

Although she knew the OM would step away, she hoped that when push came shove, he would want her.

Protect your kids, your assets and yourself.

I thought about a voice recorder, but years ago I learned it is illegal tape another person without their consent.

You may want to check with an attorney in your state.

There are 38 States that allow "one-pary consent" for recorded conversations and Idaho is one, as is Texas. I was living in TX when I learned of my WH affair. I secretly recorded many conversations of my WH admitting to the A, talking about the A, and answering detailed questions about the A. I contacted a lawyer to see if I could use the tapes in the event of a divorce. He explained that TX is a one-party consent state and YES I could use the tapes against my WH. He explained that under a one-party consent law, you can secretly record a phone call or conversation as long as you are a participant in the conversation.

What I could not do is secretly tape a conversation between two people if I was not part of that conversation.

Remember in an earlier post when I warned you (as others have) that lying is her normal, that telling the truth would actually be unexpected of her at this time.

Here's another truism: cheaters, when confronted, minimize, bob-&-weave, do anything to dodge responsibility and avoid ownership of their choices. She's doing it to you, and you're falling for it. Thus, in your recent post you said:

She said all the I love yous they said were because he started them, and she just went with it. She also admitted it crossed her mind he may be using her because she was paying him for massages before they had sex. But she said she tried to ignore it.

Women generally don't say "I love you" casually to a man they're fucking. They say it for a reason, with an agenda. In particular, married women don't say "I love you" to a man who is not their husband, who they're fucking, unless they want love with him. "I love you" is not a game for a married woman. It's not a "wassup?!?".

In one of your first posts, you said:

Not only that, but he has been buying our kids gifts, and my wife is discussing having kids with him when he is ready.

their texts sre talking about how they love each other and about our kids, who he apparently buys gifts for. He also thanks her alot for helping get his massage business going.

Dude. Wake the fuck up. Your wife, a married woman with two children already, possibly by you, is fucking another man behind her husband's back, paying him for it (more on that below), for years, telling him "I love you", and talking about having (more) kids with him.

This isn't some silly game where your wife is getting a little comfort dick from a boy toy who massages her externally and then massages her tonsils and cervix. This was a relationship. Your wife was emotionally invested.

Part of the reason she may now seem desperate to not lose you is because she realizes that in one fell swoop she may lose her lover and her husband, both for the same reason. You're definitely her Plan B, but Plan B is all she's got at the present time. How long do you think she'll love and cherish, honor and obey you after the next Plan A comes along? Given her history and her proclivities, you know there will be another Plan A sooner or later.

By the way, zero in on this tidbit from your quote above: "thanks her alot for helping get his massage business going." What the heck? If she's buying an individual massage once every week or 2, that's not going to help get a massage business going. My spidey sense tells me there's an iceberg lurking beneath this tip. She's in the residential brokerage business, meaning she encounters a steady stream of new people with enough cheddar to buy a home. People who can generally also buy a massage. Either she's giving this dude a lot of extra money (which your accountant will figure out), or, more likely, she's aggressively promoting him to her customers, sending them his way. What this means is that she is emotionally invested in him, which is my point. She looks up to him. Fantasizes about him. Thinks about him when they're not together. Wants him to think about her. The emanations of limerent love are all there. She's minimizing them to you now. She's lying. It's wise to disbelieve the spew flowing from the lying rictus of a recently confronted WW.

As an aside, on the money tip, what exactly the fuck? Tens of thousands of dollars to malingering shirt-tail relatives and friends, to Mr. Good Dick, for frivolities, all intentionally kept secret from you. This is 100% diametrically opposite of how a married person handles money. This is the action of a person who does not want to be married. This alone is grounds to leave her.

But I digress. More to the point, this quote suggest that she has been investing emotional time and energy into the AP, even when she's with you. And yet here you are flaying yourself over the idea that you are the root cause of the marriage having emotional distance. Do you see the disconnect. You're ready to crawl around and piss yourself to create connection with your wife, while she's connecting to Mr. Goodhands.

This cannot be overemphasized: any emotional distance in your marriage was her fault. Look yourself in the mirror and repeat this back to yourself: "Any emotional distance in the marriage was her fault." You've always known she is lying to you about sex. Her Ex. Mr. Spanish Jamon. Your friends in high school. Etc. Your emotional withdrawal from her is the normal and natural response. Anybody would do it. It is not your responsibility to bend over and say "thank you, ma'am, may I have another" as she whacks your ass to "prove" your emotional investment in the marriage. It is her responsibility to not whack your ass.

Here's another lie: she now tells you that their trysts were mostly at his home, which is near enough to the motel that it tricked Google tracker. She's telling you this bullshit again to minimize the fact that her "massage fee" included extra for the motel room. In your first post, you were easily able to determine when she was at a hotel versus his crib:

She has been visiting hotels for sometimes 3 to 4 hours a day during work days. Some days she is at an address I found out is his house.

Which brings me to the "Plan B" thing. I normally don't believe in "Plan A/Plan B" dialectic, but in your case there is a pattern. She has known you since at least high school, when she was fucking your friends recreationally while keeping you in the wings. The very first thing she did to you when you started hooking up was to lie to you, about that. The very first thing. She's been lying and cheating ever since. If memory serves, you caught her cheating with her ex, otherwise you'd never know. She lied about dining on the Spanish Jamon. She has sexted and flirted and fucked clients. She's paying Mr. Goodhands and giving him FFM three-ways. Dude, she has never been honest with you since the day you first hooked up, and she has never treated you with respect. You're the "safe" guy (she knows this because she's known you since you were young) who will dutifully stay home and watch the kids, while she does her thing.

Is that really the marriage you want? Because brother that's the marriage you've got.

On a completely separate topic, when was the last time she took the kids, alone, and did something with/for them. A kid thing? Amusement park? Day at the river? Hiking? You've never once mentioned her interactions with the kids. It's like that facet of her doesn't exist. Has it been a month? Has she done it once in 2021? I ask these because in an earlier post you mentioned not wanting to share the kids 50/50. As a SAHD, with a wife who likes to chase dick the way she does, who has virtually zero history in terms of parenting the kids, you have decent shot at primary custody. Talk to your lawyer about this.

But I digress. Let's talk about the "love" thing. Specifically, let's unpack this whole trope you self-flagellate with about you being emotionally distant, which drives her to plop her cooch on other men's dicks. Eric the twee masseuse, what does he do? He listens to her and empathizes with her. He "gets" her. In exchange, she brings him NSA pussy, plus money. But what does Eric really invest besides pretending to care about her problems. Where is Eric when the real work of life needs to be done. Child care. Soothing her when she has a fever and is puking. Handling the drudgery of keeping a household operating with two young-uns.

Again. Dude. Wake the fuck up. Imagine you're a single young man and an attractive married woman is bringing you NSA pussy, plus money, a couple-few times a week, without ever asking a single thing from you. Are you going to feign patient empathy as she blathers on about her emotionally distant husband who is a dud in the sack (I'm not saying that to be mean -- I'd bet a lot of money she made comments to that effect during pillow talk with Eric)? Of course you are. Any man with a hard dick would. It's a small price to pay for some NSA pussy.

In fact, what I suggest is that you more than imagine that. Okay, you're facing the gut-wrenching fear all BH's face when looking reality in the eye and realizing that the path out of infidelity is divorce. Dividing the households and finance. The hustle of shared custody. The hassle and the horror. Waking up every day with no wife in the bed. I was there. I know exactly how it feels. This whole community is made up of men who were cheated on. We feel you like no other group will feel you. Everything we say to you, we say out of love for a fellow betrayed man.

Keep in mind that time is your only valuable asset here, and it is ineluctably passing you by. Every second you stay married to her is a second lost, forever, to a woman who has done nothing but lie to you and disrespect you since the day you first hooked up. One day, you're going to look yourself in the mirror and wonder why you gave her those seconds, those days, those weeks, months.

Divorce is not final. She will still be in your life, as a co-parent. If she feels like she still wants you, let her show up at your place once a week or so with some NSA pussy and some money (in your case, for childcare and the hotel). Remind her to bring along a girlfriend from time to time for a threesome. If she does that for a few years, while eschewing other men (in a way you can verify), while you date other women, maybe then you can believe that she actually wants to commit to you in a monogamous marriage. Right now, her actions have made it crystal clear that she lacks the capacity or desire to do so.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:35 AM, June 4th (Friday)]