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Iceman,

I am not going to conjecture about Plan A or B. But For The Grace did a good job on that one.

I am hoping your accountant has already told you that not only should you get your name on all accounts but you need to change how the joint accounts are all titled to read

Mr Iceman AND Mrs Iceman, NOT Mr. Iceman OR Mrs Iceman.

By having it read AND it means that both of you must sign for any withdrawals or transfers and she cannot pull any more financial stunts unless she forges your signature.

Now, it appears you are falling for the usual nonsense, but that is OK. That is your call and if you want to play KISA and blame yourself in any capacity you are free to do that.

But what you really need to face is that your wife will remain in the same occupation and she would be crazy to switch careers given her success as well as a dramatic decrease in income will also hurt your kids.

That means she will have countless opportunities to repeat her behavior. And no matter how you disect it most experts would most likely tell you that past patterns of behavior are a fairly good indicator of future behavior. Her job will constantly find her meeting new men with money and have unsuspicious times alone with them. And no set hours where she is always supposed to be.

So I will again repeat what I previously said. I do not know how you can regain trust after what she has done for so long without polygraph tests which she should fall all over herself to do.

Or you can just roll the dice and not bother and trust her sincerity. If you can do that, all the power to you.

Good luck

Damn this woman is toxic. There should not even be a question as whether or not to divorce her.

Iceman, sorry you are here and dealing with this terrible situation. There are many things to comment on from your posts, but I try to be concise and impactful so I will stick to the one that stands out to me the most. Besides, I think you’ve already gotten some great feedback in this thread.

Often BSes will try to take some of the blame for the A or the state of the M prior to/during the A. I think this stems from a desire to know that there was something they could’ve done, or now could do, to fix it. The uncomfortable truth is that your WS has a pattern of choosing to solve any perceived deficiencies in your relationship by engaging other men. She doesn’t talk to you about her wants/needs, she doesn’t file for D so that she can seek a relationship with who she perceives as a more suitable partner, she cheats. Repeatedly. For this to change she must want, and be able to, fix herself. Based on what you’ve shared, I doubt she’s capable of that heavy lifting.

To have a good shot at changing, the pain of maintaining her current mindset must exceed the pain of becoming a safe partner for you. If you want a shot at R, she’ll have to understand that. So will you, because you’ll have to demonstrate the “pains” that will result from her not changing. Good luck and look for actions, not words.

Am I the only one on here thinking that ice is really leaning towards attempting reconciliation with his WW?

As horrible as all of this is (in his mind) trying to start up a new life without her seems more daunting than trying to make it work with her? Having to get employment and to start overseeing all of the things that his wife handled previously is potentially too overwhelming to him.

It's also why he's throwing out the things he's done wrong in the marriage (and why he also apologized to her) because this helps justify in his mind that they're both responsible for where they find themselves right now. Yes her shit is more to blame but he's at fault as well (and I'm not saying this I'm saying that ice is thinking this).

That ice is coming from a place of fear given he's been a SAHD for a long time and the road he's leaning on taking is the path that's less fearful to him.

Whatever he chooses to do is fine. It's his life. That said I'm going on record saying ice is going to attempt reconciliation.

The cheating has been gone over. I wanted to touch on some other things.

The main thing that bothers me is all the red flags around money. You both agree to your role as SAHD and then become a kind of dictator over the money. Taking out huge sums to give to family without even asking. Making large purchase that you don't even know about. Keeping thousands in her desk at work.

Taking out a thousand every time she went to get a massage??? but only admits to spending 300?? of it...(I forget how much) It's not that she's putting you in financil ruin it's more that she's only thinking of herself not her husband and her kids. She clearly believes the money she earns is hers and hers alone. Can you imagine taking out several thousand with out asking her?

I'd have a very hard time trusting her with all the red flag around her hiding and spending money.

I guess I could be wrong. Maybe she used the same amount on you and the kids but it doesn't seem so.

That said I'm going on record saying ice is going to attempt reconciliation.

For his sake and his life, I sure hope not.

A few months ago she started having a sexual affair with one of her clients. They met up for sex 3 times at his house. She said after the third time she broke it off.

I just noticed this among all the other stuff.

A few months ago = Currently

Sex 3 times at his house = sex a lot more than 3 times. Three sounds believable and better than so many times she can't remember.

Broke it off = Got caught will pick it up later with him or another client.

No wonder she thought the marriage was not good, it was getting in the way of her affairs.

Good luck...

It sounds like your WW was exchanging ego kibbles (how beautiful she is etc...) fox sex gifts and money. She was probably in love with him... and he’s just using her.

If the above scenario were true between her and her AP, she would be using him as much as he, her.......simply in different ways and exchanging different currency. Both sides are equal opportunities users. Just the method of payment and what it being purchased are different, but no one is getting used more than the other. There is no confusion over who is getting what, who wants what, and how each side will satisfy the unspoken affair contract.

That said I'm going on record saying ice is going to attempt reconciliation.

They're 40 years old, been married since about 23, have known each other since about 14. Since age 14, she mowed through his high school friends but lied to him about it when they started dating. She proceeded to cheat on him more than once in her 20's (that we know about), then cheated on him with at least 4 AP's in her 30's, even while pregnant with their second child. She also secretly pissed away tens of thousands of dollars of family money on bullshit.

25+ years of being a liar and a serial cheater, while painting her BH into a corner as a SAHD. Coming from a mom who did the same (proving the adage about apples not falling far from trees).

Now, suddenly, as if on a dime, she wants Ice to believe that she got religion, is suddenly an honest and faithful woman, that this now stops cold, that she has come 100% clean, and and that she will forever more be a safe spouse. And Hell froze over, by the way. Bears no longer shit in the woods. The Pope converted to Islam.

Any effort to rug-sweep this level of trauma and sexual humiliation would be a slow-motion train wreck of epic proportion.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 10:13 AM, June 5th (Saturday)]

Iceman's 'wife' has been behaving like she was single even after the wedding.

She has been a serial cheater and gave birth to children that may or may not be Iceman's biological children.

She has total control of the family finances and does what she pleases without any thought or consultation with Iceman.

This isn't a marriage. It's a toxic event.

Divorce is the only way out of this mess. I hope he has the courage to move forward.

[This message edited by gemini12 at 2:40 PM, June 4th (Friday)]

It is good she confessed to both families. How did the families respond?

Meanwhile, there is troubling speculation that our man Ice may be finna rug-sweep his trauma and sexual humiliation. If he does, it would be a slow-motion train wreck of epic proportion.

It's a little disconcerting that we haven't heard from him in a while. I hope he hasn't joined the ranks of the BSs who come here but find people's insights too bitter a pill to swallow and decide to leave and hope their situation is not as tragic as it seems.

Iceman,

I know I’m late to the party here, and I’m not going to tell you what to do, but I will give you a little truth to use in your journey forward…

Your WW is seriously damaged thru no fault of yours, which leads to poor and dangerous decision making (on her part).

Also, you and your children deserve better, much better than she can ever be.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 8:01 PM, June 7th (Monday)]

The last few posts here have been pretty judgemental.

By all means, express your opinions but don’t label the man.

He’s got enough to deal with at the moment. Adding to the layers of issues doesn’t help.

It’s not for us to decide whether he should R or D.

Let him make that decision.

Let’s support him get through the next few months until it becomes clear for him what he wants to do.

Yes, she’s a serial cheat. And liar. She did volunteer to give Iceman information about the other affairs. It’s a horrible situation for Iceman. Let him process this without judgement.

Iceman...how are you doing (sleeping, dealing with the roller coaster of emotions)?

What support/feedback have you received from your family?

Are you in IC yet?

Have you been able to do something just for 'you' (even a walk in the park by yourself)?

She has always needed alot of verbal affirmations, compliments, good jobs etc. I know that is her love language.

She was clear though that the bigger issue wasn't the sex, but the intimacy she got from it. That satisfied her affirmation and self esteem needs.

She let me know that alot of unhappiness came from not getting the verbal affirmations and the lower sex drive.

I just think I didn't do the little things she needed for her love language.

Additionally, we are both on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as cuddling, affirmations, compliments etc. She craves them and needs them more than anybody I have ever met.

She is stubborn. She like to act like she is tough and doesn't care about what others think. Deep down however she is really hard on herself with low self esteem

ChamomileTea post about this is spot on,

CT - It's about your WW's unhealthy inability to self-validate. People aren't born needing external validation in order to feel whole.

I'm going to jump in here.

To me, a BS who has a WH who has recently been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder I 100% suggest you look up articles on the internet that cover narcissism, external validations and attention seeking as well as validation addiction. Your WW is showing all signs (big flashing red arrow type of signs)that she has an addiction to external validation (she craves affirmations of others in order to feel good and has developed a dependency on it) and is displaying a lot of narcissistic traits. The craving for that constant pats on the back "good girls" is ... well I don't even want to leave room saying it might not be, she is an external validation addict, that thirst for a constant hit of validation is her craving for more and more. Her saying it's her "love language" is complete horse-poop, she is just reading what she wants to read in that description (Words of affirmation love language description) while not seeing what she has is far more damaging and alarming, besides if her love language is "Words of Affirmation" how does she justify the physical affairs? does she also claim her love language is also "Physical Touch"? Please. The frequency of this wayward excuse, the "love language wasn't being met excuse", is becoming so popular that I feel like we need to write it in the handbook, it's frustrating.

She is an addict and a narc and narcs do have low self esteem, hence the thirst of the dopamine hit external validation gives them.

She started crying during the meeting. He told her that based on the way she was acting and what he had seen with his clients it did not seem like she was ready for a divorce yet. She decided not to proceed. That is what she said about that meeting.

She said the initial meeting she cried when he touched her because she hadn't felt those emotions in so long claiming we were in a bad place so she really didn't feel that connection from me.

siiiigh... she said she said she said, all these dramatical tears yet you've seen none of these tears while the marriage is ending? Narcs love a good soap opera story staring them. Of course these things have to be told in such an overdramatic climatic way, how else is she going to justify herself to herself?!

Sadly you have been living with her for such a long time that what you describe as "mediocre marriage" is just your normal run of the mill marriage that we all love(d) living, but since you have such a narc as a WW your life seems so flat compared to the way she talks about other things in her life. Ever question why you never see any of this drama and flair, only hear about it? That's because she makes it up. I call BS on the lawyer and BS on the tears. OM probably flirted and she flirted right back from day one, swapped numbers and it went from there, there was no dramatic break down of tears and no kissing and hand placed on crotch, very boring narc got attention from flirting, flirted back, made it sexual.

I'm only saying all this so you flip your own internal script. Go and read up about narcissism and external validation and see if it's something to explore talking about in IC, how to protect yourself and your kids moving forward, even if you D your kids growing up will need the right tools dealing with a narc mother if she doesn't get help.

I want to hug you and tell you that your marriage wasn't mediocre, I honestly think the same way and my therapist is the most patient person trying me to see it's from years of my narc telling all these flamboyant tales about his day that involved him and everyone else but me and that's because they're overexaggerating and lying, they're tales and forms of making the narc feel good about themselves, they don't even see it as us taking it on board thinking "well aren't I the dullest of the dull" when in truth we're just normal, not dull, not mediocre.

Just food for thought, re-read ChamomileTea's post, they say this better than me.

edit: Did you ever question what the heck that "you're a good mom" text from the OW was about? From what you have been saying YOU are the one parenting, no need to answer but I would want an answer from my wayward for that. WW thinks leaving child raising to you while she works, hides/moves money around and Fs around is being a good mother? having another man inside her while your baby was growing inside her was being a good mother? that having unprotected sex with people who have unknown number of partners during a pandemic then returning home each day risking exposing you and the kids being a good mother? to me she has also spun this OM/OW one hell of a fantasy tale to get this as the only response back, that or it's code. Would not trust her around computers until 9pm either, from what you said her work is getting later and later, do you have full access? Are you able to install a keylogger for peace of mind?

(EDIT: Keep good hydration up, I've learnt recently you need to take more fluids in than normal when dealing with this because our adrenaline from the stress/shock causes our brains to dehydrate faster which leads to poor decision choices (because our brain doesn't process properly), I found meal replacement shakes were good for this since I wasn't eating properly. If you're still not sleeping a doctor can prescribe a light sedative for a few days to break the insomnia, also and I'm grinning a little because of the mentioned SI member's name already but there is truth in drinking a couple of cups of chamomile tea before bed, really helps trying to sleep, or so it worked for me.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 10:39 AM, June 6th (Sunday)]

LostInHisFog's advice on reading about narcissism is spot on. There are also good Youtube channels dealing with it - PM me if you want to get specific recommendations - I wouldn't like to violate the "no soliciting" policy of SI.

I hope he has the courage to move forward.

That is manipulative

Iceman ...how are you doing? Feel free to vent or seek advice.

You are not alone.

Iceman, I hope you’re doing ok. With the revelation that your WW is a serial cheater and that she started your very marriage itself on false premises, I think you should move very slowly with any further discussions with her at all. Detach and 180. Start lining up ducks and get your financial house in order. Despite what you might think you are in the driver’s seat and she is at a severe disadvantage. I hope you are getting good advice from an attorney.