SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think your WW had a plan in case her A gets discovered. She justified her A because “the marriage was not good”, so in case of discovery, she would say fix the marriage or I D you. She played out her plan... but that works for an hour or two.

The reality is different. She now faces reality, and start seeing the consequences of her choices (yes her choices, none of it was a mistake). She’s acheating wife, she destroyed her family and reputation and for what?

It sounds like your WW was exchanging ego kibbles (how beautiful she is etc...) fox sex gifts and money. She was probably in love with him... and he’s just using her.

It will be hard for her to go from a 3 years “love story” to “he was just using me and I made horrible choices”. It won’t happen overnight.

She will need to figure out why she was willing to destroy her husband, her family, make her children suffer, sell her body and her family income for a few compliments.

Meanwhile, take care of yourself.

Don’t worry about suing the OM. If it hadn’t been him, it would have been another OM. Focus on getting out of infidelity through R or D.

Again... none of this is your fault.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 10:48 AM, May 29th (Saturday)]

Thumos

iceman, try to keep in mind that this woman in front of you is not the woman you thought you were married to.

This

It even helps to say it to her face. “You are not the woman I thought you were. I’m now just learning who you are.”

She depends on you being latched to her past persona to manipulate you. When you un-know what you had (falsely) accepted as fact, you can see the truth.

longsadstory1952

There is only one path and that is to protect yourself and the kids.

Let that be your North Star right now. When in doubt, repeat...

...protect yourself and the kids.

...protect yourself and the kids.

...protect yourself and the kids.

Hi iceman,

It seems like your thread is mostly full of comments from male posters, and as a woman, and former stay-at-home-mom, I wanted to offer a slightly different POV.

PROTECT YOUR KIDS.

You've said that your wife has largely been a "workaholic." Except, instead of being slightly misguided, and prioritizing providing for her kids financially by working a ton, she's actually been fucking other people (because it was the massage therapist and his girlfriend, right?) AND siphoning family money away to pay for sex, hiding large sums of cash in her office and doing who knows what with $155k.

YOU need to remove all your emotions from the situation right now and your #1 goal should be protecting your children.

YOU have been their primary caregiver. You need to do everything in your power to ensure it stays this way. Now, I am not saying that you should deny your cheating wife access to your kids, prevent visitation time or anything like that. But you need to meet with lawyers ASAP and find out what you should be doing to ensure that you get as much custody as possible. You need to find out if there's any way you can prevent/delay your wife from introducing new partners to your children. It's hard to enforce, but you might be able to out something in writing about how long they're dating before she can introduce any new partner. If she's the primary earner, you need to fight for every penny of child support and spousal support that you deserve so that you can continue to take care of your children.

Your relationship with your WS (wayward spouse) should be secondary right now. If she's truly remorseful, she should want to set you up in a comfortable position to take care of your children, regardless if you remain together or not. She should want to make sure that you feel safe and comfortable and can walk away with at least 50% of your assests if you can't forgive her for her betrayal.

Take care of yourself and your children first. She hasn't done that for the last three years, and there's no reason to believe why she would start now.

Thanks HouseofPLane!

Iceman, I don’t mean what I say as a threadjack, because it may be controversial, but I think this might be helpful for you to hear in your deliberations on how you’re going to proceed.

A big question posed to me by my therapist – sitting in a chair days after finding out my “soulmate” had carried on long term affairs for the majority of our marriage – was this:

Therapist: What do you want to happen?

Me: I’d like to save my marriage.

Therapist: Why?

Me: Because I love her.

Therapist: What does love mean to you?

I’ve pondered this question for years.

I’m a cynic by nature, due to what I do for a living. I’ve watched people engage in almost every form of lying to justify actions that society would view as reprehensible.

I don’t think anyone is a bad person, at least not entirely. I do believe that that anyone is capable of incredibly terrible actions. The common thread in those situations – doing something awful - is that we tend to offload moral responsibility for those actions with post hoc justification.

“I may have robbed that liquor store and shot the clerk, but I am a good person and take care of my grandmother. Who will take care of her if I got to jail?”

“I may have stolen my business associate’s money and lost it all on a cocaine fueled bender in Vegas, but I’m an addict and I have it under control now. I’m really a good person when I am not around my triggers.”

“I may have had affairs, but I was in a sexless marriage and my wife was mean to me all the time. I wanted to stay together for the kids, but I just couldn’t live like that anymore and something had to change.”

It’s kind of the same way we switch our moral compass to fit the narrative of the main character in a movie or a book. We want to identify with the main character because we subconsciously read our own narrative into the story as the main character.

The issue with affairs boils down – eventually – to one of honesty and integrity. Were there issues in the relationship? Sure. There always are. Could you get into apportioning blame for those issues? Yup. No matter if you caused 99% of the problems in a relationship, you are still deserved of having a frank and honest talk before someone takes your health, safety and security without your knowledge to pursue the missing parts of their lives.

Honesty is the essence of the marriage. Do we lie to each other? Absolutely. “Honey this stew is delicious… but maybe next time we shouldn’t use ham in it.” Do we shade the truth to avoid hurting other’s feelings? Yes. All the time. It’s human.

Do people that kill other people walk into a police station and give a full confession and accept punishment without complaint? Not normally. We all want to avoid the negative effects of our actions.

So, in a way, what your WW is doing is incredibly human and also incredibly dishonest. It doesn’t make her the worst person ever created. But it does leave you with certain knowledge.

You now know:

1.) She can lie to your face.

2.) She can offload guilt to the point you don’t notice her having any of it.

3.) She can take advantage of you for what you bring her.

This leads to the conclusions that, in the future:

1.) You don’t really know what she is thinking.

2.) You won’t be able to detect if she is telling you the truth.

3.) She has no qualms about doing something horrible for an extended period of time so long as it suits her needs.

The issue then becomes, is a relationship sustainable? I’d argue that she cannot change those aspects of herself – they’re inherent.

She’s been in therapy for years, likely complaining about your relationship issues, all while NEVER revealing she has been having an affair for years. Therapists have to keep secrets. She didn’t even trust the therapist with that. That should tell you something here.

So, that brings us back to the question… what is love?

I’ll be the first to admit, even now, that I have no idea what it is. I think it’s a word, and one that I now refuse to use.

I could say “I love apples” but what am I really saying with that? I’m saying, “I like the taste of apples and the sensation of chewing them. They make me feel full.”

I could say, “I love you [person]” and what would I really mean by that? Is it the chemical rush I get when I see them? Is it the feeling of safety I get being with them? Is it sexual or platonic attraction? I think the word is something you define for yourself or with the other person.

You’ll be all over the place – sitting in shock, trying to work through issues with a mind that barely functions, trying to make sense of a life that doesn’t make sense anymore. And, if you’re like me, then you’ll use the word “love” to justify what you’re doing.

But, there’s danger there. You’ve had a hole blown in the hull of your emotional ship, and it’s taking on water. You’ll chase her sometimes. You’ll want your “family” back.

The hard truth is her feelings for you have not, for three years at least, been the same as your love for her.

If she was honest, what I think she would say is that she feels she settled for you, she’s supporting you and the family, and she thinks she is entitled to more, so she took it. If she uses the line that “I never meant to hurt you” remember that she was having unprotected sex… she didn’t mean to hurt you, but she also didn’t care enough about you NOT to hurt you in a possibly life altering way. It’s that indifference mindset that comes into play here – the opposite of love.

If you accept the fact that she does not care about you then you have to wonder what she does care about? Her image, her fun, her money, her power, her career…? That’s what she will protect.

Her moving money is a move to protect what she cares about – money.

Her text and subsequent return message of “you’re a good mother” tells you something. She’s told the other man and woman all about her kids (and the gifts). That IMAGE is what she cares about. She’s not really a great mom, spending her kid’s possible college fund on a kink fantasy.

Moving money without telling you, having affair(s)… that’s about power – you’re not part of her partnership.

Her statement that she is OK with divorce or reconciliation is an outcropping of her lack of caring how this plays… she’s got what she actually cares about and she doesn’t need you for it.

The “new” desire more for reconciliation… that’s just about narrative in my opinion. She doesn’t really care. She’s ready for it to be over. She just wants to have something to say down the line, and if she can string you along for a bit longer the divorce can be about “happiness” or you “not being able to accept her apology” and not about “spending the kid’s college fund on male hookers.” That’s embarrassing and doesn’t fit into her image.

And that’s fine. Relationships run their course. You can forgive her later if you want, but I doubt she cares if you forgive her at all.

And that’s why you need a lawyer. It’s not you taking the money for you… but God knows you at least deserve a fair split after this. It’s about making sure the kids are supported. She might find more expensive hookers, you know. (Just injecting some levity…hopefully.)

So, that’s my grand thing to think about. Look to actions, not to words. Look for the real motivations, not stated motivations, and act accordingly.

Also, keep your mouth shut about your feelings around her… she doesn’t care about your feelings or will use them against you. Don’t expose her yet. Wait to talk to an attorney and do EXACTLY what the attorney says. You might need to be able to use the information you have to strategic advantage.

Be safe out there.

Damn, waggingthedog

One thing I’ve always said about affairs is that if you can get past the surface pain, and follow them back down, so to speak, they are windows into the deepest aspects of human nature. Like how seismologists use earthquakes to understand what’s at the center of the earth. Your post, case in point.

Be a survivor, Iceman. Keep taking control.

She claims his apartment is right next to the hotel that google tracking showed they were at. I know the google tracker isnt always perfect so that could be true if they are in close proximity.

Confused on this point because you wrote that you read all sort of hotel type sneaking around. That they planned to enter at seperate times and to make sure the door was unlocked. If they were just "expanding" her appointments this seems a little excessive.

It seems like your thread is mostly full of comments from male posters, and as a woman, and former stay-at-home-mom, I wanted to offer a slightly different POV.

PROTECT YOUR KIDS.

Literally every male poster has said this exact same thing over and over in this thread. This isn’t about gender. It’s about iceman protecting himself so he can protect his kids.

Just wanted to add to the good advice your getting here by saying keep a daily log of the time you spend with the kids and what you do with and for them, also how little time your wife spends with them.

It might be useful down the line.

Keep track of what she is telling you, right now she is in the just got caught CYA mode. The endorphins from a three year affair don't go away overnight, she will change her mind form day to day.

Can you prove the apt is next to the hotel? It only matters in the is she telling the truth or making things up like the "better interest rate" lie (IMO) Savings accounts pay next to nothing % rates, all of them. Sounds a little shady.

Ask her how much she has given Eric. The FA may find a very different amount.

She prefers to be married (doubtful).

Like I would tell the motorcycle cop who stops me while I'm going 120mph thru a school zone that "I prefer not to get arrested".

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:15 PM, May 29th (Saturday)]

I LOVE THEM!!!

That doesn’t mean they love you.

Ice please read (and reread) Waggingthedog's last post.

Let it sink in!!

I've been coming to SI for about six years and this may very well be the most insightful post I've come across.

Thanks Wagging for sharing it.

In my humble opinion it should be pinned to the top of Just Found Out and every newbie that comes here should read it.

Iceman, what kind of personality does your wife have? Is she the type who always needs to be right, always in charge? My XWW thought she was always the smartest person in the room and as a high school teacher she often was, but not among adults.

It seems like she is a workaholic breadwinner in the family and she is also financing her BF/boyandgirltoy massage business.

Both of those situations may give her a feeling of control and superiority over 2 of the men in her life. If there is a major discrepancy in income that can have some ripple effects.

Commenting on the statement from your WW about wanting to stay married, Iceman, Robert suggested having her write down 10 reasons why. Good suggestion. You can analyze those as to whether it is for selfish reasons or not.

I would add that you ask her to make a list for you about what would be in it for you to stay married. Why would staying married to her be the only logical decision. And evaluate.

I'm a person who needs to know it all, Iceman. I needed details. You found out about different sex acts and it rides on you. In my opinion it's better to know in order to make a decision about the rest of your life.

The decision to R or D is yours to make. I sense that you're leaning toward D. Sometimes minds change and that's okay. If you do decide to R I suggest you need to know all the dirty details so there is no sudden new reveal and reset some time down the road. Even years. Deciding to D is a perfectly valid decision.

Thanks Wagging for sharing it.

In my humble opinion it should be pinned to the top of Just Found Out and every newbie that comes here should read it.

Agreed

Ask her if she ever spoke to an attorney about the impact that divorce would have on her?

If she did, she probably found out that with a stay at home dad she looses big time in terms of money and access to the kids.

That may explain why she 'prefers' to stay married. And is something you need to verify.

You need to know if her version of R is basically to white knuckle until you get back to work. You going back to work minimizes her financial lost in divorce.

And you going back to work no longer gives you special status as the primary care giver for the kids - and may set up a bias in her favor because she's the mom.

OP, I'm late to the party...just gone through my own D after my wife of 19 years had a 6 month EA with "Val Kilmer" who talked her out of our entire life savings... but any way

You live in Idaho...which has a criminal Adultery statute. I would nuke the AP, go to the DA (state attorney?) and present your evidence and have him prosecuted. Also, contact the state licensing board and present your evidence that she was paying him $1000 per visit...(sounds a lot like prostitution) and see if you can ruin him professionally. Most state boards frown on that sort of thing.

Just my 2 cents...but I would nuke his world. There are consequences to what he's done...and so far he's had none...nor has your WW.

Thanks gang! I’m flattered.

I normally only try to chime in when people are in possible danger because they are not sensing the reality of the situation they are in.

I’m a lawyer, I’ve seen people get caught flat footed before, and it’s not pretty. (Don’t take anything I say as legal advice, only consult counsel in your own area).

When it happened to me, I was lucky because I was a lawyer.

First, within ten minutes of finding out, I was on the phone with a buddy who happens to be one of the top divorce attorneys in the state. At that point, I still wanted to save my marriage, but I also knew I was in danger. I got quick instructions on what to do within minutes. I know, most people are not so lucky. Within twenty-four hours I was in the office of the top divorce attorney in my metro area negotiating a retainer agreement.

Second, professionally, I do deal with some serious legal issues that crop up at the end of relationships – think where people could go to prison. So, if that was the plan, I knew exactly what to do and what not to do by virtue of my training. Again, I know most on here are not so lucky.

Then, for a long time, I came to this board and many others trying to figure out what the heck was going on in my life. I did want to save my marriage, and tried out every paramutation that would lead me to “she really loved me” as the result.

But, she was in love with someone else. And, that’s OK. I was not going to force her to lie to me any longer so I did what needed to be done… I divorced. She found someone else shortly thereafter and seems happy. Even during the divorce, it seemed like her feelings of love for the OM became even stronger. And, then, she broke up with him and found someone else even better.

I still don’t exactly understand what happened with the matters of the heart.

I am no expert on love.

I am an expert in spotting danger an avoiding it in the legal field. (Hell, I wrote a book on it.)

The reason why I think Iceman is in a situation that COULD be a danger is because, when you’re “in it” you don’t “see it.”

Iceman is dealing with a person capable of living a double life that is only possible if his WW is capable of MASSIVE deception and manipulation. He is also in love with the person he thinks she is – not the person she actually is. In this situation, it takes a LONG time to dissuade your heart of that vision. (It did me, so I am not judging.) In that instance, a person is MORE than vulnerable. They’re wounded.

We are all human. We have all made mistakes. Wayward partners can change. The shorter the affair, the lesser severity, confessing to it, changing their mindset… all of these can factor into having something to work with if you want to save it.

The longer the affair, the more extreme the disrespect, the deeper hidden the secrets… that makes it less likely to be able to reconcile and more likely that the other person will use the tools in their toolbox they’ve used for the affair to manipulate the betrayed to get what the wayward wants.

That’s where Iceman is… he’s wounded.

So, that’s why I am chiming in, because he needs a lawyer like yesterday. And, everyone on here is right. Don’t interact. Don’t yell, scream or break things. Become completely stoic… play dead and take care of the kids. Have a recording device on you 24/7 and make sure you’re protected.

This isn’t gender specific, but a stay at home parent like Iceman, no matter what, is in a position where they have made an agreement where they sacrificed their earning years, trusting their significant other to uphold their end of the bargain. The other person didn’t care about the sacrifice, started hiding money, and planned to bail when ready (likely). So, while he is trying to figure out if she loves him or not, while he is clinging to what is left of his marriage to stop the emotional pain, she is likely finding out her exit strategy or she already has.

This power imbalance hurts the BS more in physical and real things, like finances and custody, because they are wounded and can’t think straight. (I was too… no judgment.) In this situation, the BS could get fleeced without competent legal representation. With at least $155K on the table, Iceman needs an attorney or at least someone to stop him from (possibly) getting steamrolled.

As for love… just know that she doesn’t feel “love” – however you define it - now. She might have before, or maybe she didn’t, but never trust her to act with compassion or respect in this situation when she has been acting without that for the last three years. Assuming that she will act with compassion, because you desperately want her to feel SOMETHING for you, is a lost cause that will get you into an even worse situation.

I’ll keep chiming in when I see someone in a situation where it’s precarious, and this is pretty dang precarious.

Iceman: keep in mind that she has been sneaking around behind your back, lying to you, and deceiving you for 3+ years. Your confrontation with her was just a few days ago. I point this out because lying to you is her normal. By now it is as natural to her as breathing. You can't expect her to change that in just a few days.

Thus, she tells you this:

I did find out today that supposedly they were not at a hotel. She claims his apartment is right next to the hotel

But, by reading their, you were able to learn this:

I found in the deleted texts that tomorrow they they are meeting again at a hotel.

from what I got from the texts, they go to the [hotel] room separately and i think he pays. She made comments to him about making sure the door is unlocked so she could sneak in.

She tells you this:

She also said her preference is to stay married.

But, by reading their messages, you were able to learn this:

their texts sre talking about how they love each other ... they act like they are so in love

and my wife is discussing having kids with him when he is ready

Literally days ago she was pledging love to this man, giving him your family's money, planning to have kids with him, withdrawing cash to use in a divorce from you.

Around here, we warn newly minted BH's to not believe the words that spew out of a confronted WW's shocked rictus. She has been lying to you, as her normal, for years. It's unlikely the stream of bullshit will stop on a dime.

Believe her actions.

Then there is this:

She did cheat on me when we first got together years ago when we were in school. I found proof in her email and confronted her. She admitted it then we moved past it.

Her mom actually did the exact same thing to her dad as a child. She left him for another man. Then she blew off the kids and he mainly raised them.

The sine qua non of cheating is character. Millions of married people have body images, or mid-life crises, or merely experience the ebbs and flows of normal marriage, without choosing to have sex with somebody outside of the marriage. The operative word is "choice". Your wife chose to do this, out of all of the things she could have chosen. It speaks to her character. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with somebody who has exhibited this level of character?

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 5:13 PM, May 29th (Saturday)]

iceman1000000,

You have shown up here and been given post after post of golden advice.

My advice will be slightly different, though some have touched on this as well. This is about how to safeguard and insulate your vulnerable emotions from your wife's lying, and that will protect yourself from your wife's manipulations in order to maintain your sanity and minimize the damage she will inflict on you going forward.

I have been recording her and gathering more evidence. My initial reaction was to leave the massage therapist out of it. I obviously didnt confront at the hotel. I didnt feel the need to get in a fight.

However tonight I got her on tape describing in more detail how the affair started. I think I am for sure going to pursue action with the licesing board. I am undecided whether I should report him immediately, or save it for a bargaining chip.

Apparently she was getting a massage at his stuidio. She was emotional about things She was crying and he kissed her forehead. He told her she was beautiful. He grabbed her hand and put it on his crotch.

Clearly she is at fault. That does not diminish my feelings on her actions. She chose to reciprocate, but doing what he did in his position to a vunerable woman is grounds for action in my book. That changed my tune.

That changed my tune.

iceman1000000 - you gotta take a step back and review what is going on with regard to your interactions with your wife. Because with that bullshit story she activated your inner "White Knight" who wants to rescue her from danger.

You have recently discovered that the wife you love dearly she is cheating on you.

Your heart still loves her. Turning off those emotions is difficult, it takes a lot of time.

On the other hand, your wife has been treating you like shit for years, stealing from you, and taking the physical side of the cheating to another level with threesomes and who knows what else.

There is no way she loves you in the way you love her, if she even loves you at all!

***

You have to look at her almost the same way you would a criminal who has been busted. Just look at your checklist from when you confronted her:

1) First they will lie and say they did not do it - check

2) Then they will minimize (which is really just lying) - check

3) Then they will spin strange stories to justify what they did (Like the money) - check

4) Then they will say anything to mitigate their responsibility, make it someone else's fault, they didn't really want to do it, they were led astray, taken advantage of by a PREDATOR!

***

I'm going to focus on number 4. Don't believe her.

Your wife was not some poor innocent soul who the predator targeted her and pounced at the very right moment, or else she never would have spread her legs dozens and dozens of times for him and his girlfriend, and then given him your family money etc.

***

Here is the thing - most men aren't badasses like that, just rolling up on women to see if they can fuck them - even massage therapists who like to fuck married women.

Most men want to see signs and openings so they don't get burned and rejected. Trust me, Massage Guy didn't just do this:

Apparently she was getting a massage at his stuidio. She was emotional about things She was crying and he kissed her forehead. He told her she was beautiful. He grabbed her hand and put it on his crotch.

That is a huge load of bullshit! She was crying during a massage? Then he kissed her, complimented her, and then took her hand and placed it on his dick?

DO NOT BELIEVE THAT!

Your wife is not Little Bo Peep. You can be pretty sure that she was sending this dude pretty strong "available signals" before he moved in on her.

I would guess that she was more the aggressor since she had to go seek him out in order to have contact with him.

SHE MANIPULATED YOU WITH THAT STORY.

***

Cheaters are so fucking predictable. There is another recent thread in the Just Found Out Forum where the Betrayed Husband's wife gave a similar story of "I wasn't really doing much, and then he grabbed my hand and put it on his dick"!

Look toward the end of the thread maybe in the 30s or 40s: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/650103/my-wife-cheated-on-me-with-her-coworker-what-now/

Long story short - that wasn't exactly accurate, she was a much more willing participant, it wasn't even her first rodeo, and she lied, minimized, and bullshitted her way through everything as much as she possibly could.

And by the way, your wife's cheating is much more severe than that story (as we know it), so multiply the lying, spinning and bullshit by multiples for your situation.

***

Don't believe anything she says that you can't verify, particularly with regard to "how things happened", "what she did", "who knows what" (Therapist, Massage Guy girlfriend), etc.

She's lying. Even when she tells the truth she is lying, by molding it into something other than planned and intentional outright disrespect and disloyalty with complete forethought and understanding of what she was doing.

***

As the situation develops and if your wife becomes more desperate to appear contrite, it is very possible that you will get some "Damsel in Distress" points of view posting on this thread, with the old: "She was taken advantage of by a predator" and the like, but...

THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!

She wanted something that was in complete violation of decency, integrity, loyalty, her vows and the wellbeing of her family... she didn't care about the effect of her actions on you or her children, and she went for it.

That's what happened.

Cynicism and skepticism are your greatest allies at the moment. Listen to them, do everything you can to verify and learn what really has been going on, from forensic accounting, to computer and phone recovery and research, eavesdropping, etc.

If you don't protect yourself, you will find yourself stabbed in the back yet again.

Good luck to you iceman1000000

Iceman, read faithfulman again!