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Bigger's 1st question above is a nice neutral one with no assumptions built in.

Here are a few thoughts and questions to add:

Did they give you empathy, compassion and love?

Did they approach their advice with humility and seeking to understand your pain, experience and concerns?

If not, I would hesitate to bend the knee. The above questions relate to essential Christian virtues and if their guidance ignored them then that's a problem, isn't it?

And their understanding of repentence seems very limited to me but I have little data I suppose. Repentance in my understanding is more than a declaration. It comes with a high standard of sincere change of heart and behavior. How can they know your wife has done this so quickly? And how can they take someone suscetible to temptation and not make a structural change to suppprt their true, sincere repentence?

It sounds like classic rugsweeping and that is one thing I do not see being advocated for or practiced anywhere in the Gospels. But maybe I missed that part.

I think it’s time to find a new church.

The people you spoke with appear to unsympathetic at the very least. For your sake, you don’t need to continue to worry about the possible interaction between your wife and that other guy.

Agree w/1st Wife - time to find a new church.

And have you told OBS - I am very curious as to what his reaction will be. And if EAP (emotional affair partner) has started damage control.

I think it’s time to find a new church.

The people you spoke with appear to unsympathetic at the very least. For your sake, you don’t need to continue to worry about the possible interaction between your wife and that other guy.

I third that, but before you get involved ask for a copy of their constitution & bylaws and statement of faith. If they dont/wont provide it, bounce. Same for their annual financial statement.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:40 PM, Saturday, December 7th]

So, I was unsatisfied with the meeting the other night with the leader of the ministry. She happens to be a female, which I think I mentioned before, and had a short marriage about 40 years ago and never remarried. I’m pretty sure that she has no concept of an EA.

Anyway, the entire discussion basically revolved around "moving forward" and seeming like it wasn’t a big deal because the deliverance ministry takes a lot of communication between core members. She did say that she will make an amendment to their rules now to include no one on one texting/calling between members of the opposite sex. She apologized for this "oversight."

There really wasn’t much if any empathy, sympathy or compassion towards me. There were various excuses like OM just has that personality, didn’t mean anything and probably doesn’t know he did anything wrong. 😡

I explained to her that minimally no man is going to put this much time and effort without at least one of his goals of maybe the possibility of sex if the perfect storm happens. You know, helicoptering around and drawing her in.

I told my wife and the leader that I think it’s a bad idea for her or the OM to continue in the ministry.

To this she said that I needed to be clear about was is acceptable communication and it’s protocol when it comes to texting/calling a member of the opposite sex. I explained I had already done that before and we did have MC more than once and that concept was clearly covered.

I then started to lose my cool and demanded that we have a meeting with the pastor and elders ASAP. She got back to me and there is another meeting with them scheduled for this Friday. 😡🤬😡

So, I was unsatisfied with the meeting the other night with the leader of the ministry. She happens to be a female, which I think I mentioned before, and had a short marriage about 40 years ago and never remarried. I’m pretty sure that she has no concept of an EA.

Anyway, the entire discussion basically revolved around "moving forward" and seeming like it wasn’t a big deal because the deliverance ministry takes a lot of communication between core members. She did say that she will make an amendment to their rules now to include no one on one texting/calling between members of the opposite sex. She apologized for this "oversight."

There really wasn’t much if any empathy, sympathy or compassion towards me. There were various excuses like OM just has that personality, didn’t mean anything and probably doesn’t know he did anything wrong. 😡

I explained to her that minimally no man is going to put this much time and effort without at least one of his goals of maybe the possibility of sex if the perfect storm happens. You know, helicoptering around and drawing her in.

I told my wife and the leader that I think it’s a bad idea for her or the OM to continue in the ministry.

To this she said that I needed to be clear about was is acceptable communication and it’s protocol when it comes to texting/calling a member of the opposite sex. I explained I had already done that before and we did have MC more than once and that concept was clearly covered.

I then started to lose my cool and demanded that we have a meeting with the pastor and elders ASAP. She got back to me and there is another meeting with them scheduled for this Friday. 😡🤬😡

Nothing like being gaslit by your "wife" and faith leaders. I wasnt kidding about insular culture in many churches/faith organizations. There are loads of cr@p being rugswept at in quite a lot of these places. Go ahead and escalate but Ill be shocked if you find much different/changed there.

The main issue here, however, is your "wife". This....

To this she said that I needed to be clear about was is acceptable communication and it’s protocol when it comes to texting/calling a member of the opposite sex. I explained I had already done that before and we did have MC more than once and that concept was clearly covered.

Is pathetic. Shes a million miles from remorse and is emboldened by the laissez-faire attitude of the ministry leader. Regardless of what the religious hierarchy says, how much are you going to take from her when shes basically afking "How close to the line can I come without going over?" Wrong question!!

My advice? Stop "casting your pearls before swine" if you get that religious reference. Pick up your pearls and move on.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:55 PM, Saturday, December 7th]

No matter what the pastors and elders say they can’t change her. Neither can you. How you deal with this is your decision but you need to be realistic about her.

I'm sorry you experienced such a lack of support from your church.

Next time bring copies of their texts and copies of the phone records.

Make graphs or charts.

Finally, this whole mess could have been avoided.

I recall it was the OM reaching out and initiating texts and calls.

This mess is your wifes fault.

Your wife could have so easily discouraged his "unwanted " attention by simply not taking or delaying her response to his calls or his texts.

I'm sorry you experienced such a lack of support from your church.

Next time bring copies of their texts and copies of the phone records.

Make graphs or charts.

Finally, this whole mess could have been avoided.

I recall it was the OM reaching out and initiating texts and calls.

This mess is your wifes fault.

Your wife could have so easily discouraged his "unwanted " attention by simply not taking or delaying her response to his calls or his texts.

I suggest you consider inviting the OM to your next meeting.

The best way to hold him accountable is for him to answer to you and the elders.

And considering the time they spent in contact, he should offer something concrete that was produced for the church from all their chats.

When you have the meeting with the pastor, and the leader of the ministry, tell them to get a copy of Not Just Friends and that they need to do some research on emotional affairs to understand why they are so damaging to a marriage.

To this she said that I needed to be clear about was is acceptable communication and it’s protocol when it comes to texting/calling a member of the opposite sex.

It's not for the betrayed spouse to set up "rules of engagement", a committed spouse should be responsible for enforcing appropriate boundaries. You might want to recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend too. It's filled with Biblical quotes about boundaries.

I’ll do that, thank you 👍🏻

It's "funny" in an ironic sense. If they're working on deliverance - they don't see an addiction here, nor do they understand betrayal trauma.

Your WW has an addiction and they don't recognize it.

I just want to reiterate to not get your hopes up about the church leadership meeting. If the ministry head works under the purvue of the pastor and elders already, they are probably just behaving in such a way as has already been exemplified by said leadership. Im not saying dont try, just keep expectations in check and stay calm. Id also check on the laws of your state that pertain to secretly recording the meeting and, if legal, carry a VAR to countermand any spurious claims post meeting.

Beyond that though, your real issue is with the one you exchanged vows with. If she had proper bounderies as to interaction with the opposite sex, none of this would be an issue.

All of this brings to the fore the question, what do you want for your life? Are you going to just keep fighting this battle with her over something she is clearly not willing to change concerning? I can tell you from experience, its a sad, miserable way to live.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:13 PM, Monday, December 9th]

I don’t see the solution as in getting others to make your wife stop excessive communications with another man. I don’t think the pastor telling your wife to cut down the minutes with OM or moving her from one committee to another is the solution.
I see the solution being to get your wife to understand what she’s doing and why its wrong.

Once again – I think the key to that is to make/help her understand the concept of emotional infidelity. I honestly don’t know of a better tool than Not Just Friends. If your wife reads that book – even better if you two read it together – and still doesn’t grasp what’s going on... that’s when the real issues start.

Hi. Did you ever talk to his wife about this?

What is your wife's plan to become a safe spouse? What is her current take on all of this? Does she care that this is hurting you?

Since you really don’t want her having any kind of contact with this guy ever again, especially at church, I think I would have told the story to the church’s resident gossip hounds. Including the part of church leadership blowing you off. Then sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

OhItsYou

Hey All,

Just wanted to say I haven’t abandoned this thread. I’ve had to devote my energy into my current situation and it’s been a distraction to say the least.

I will say that we have a meeting with the head pastor and elders along with OM and his BS tomorrow afternoon. I’ll try to provide a synopsis of it as soon as I am able.

This still sucks.

Good luck with your meeting.

In the early days, there were times when I'd stay away for a month or so. Just needed a break from the raw emotion.