SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

How long was it between texting him you know about his cheating to the time he got home?

The likelihood is the OW and WH had ample time to sync their stories and you were delivered the watered down version. The time away from you, since they’re together at work, has given them the chance to scrub evidence, work out a plausible story and found new ways to continue. Even if he makes a big show of NC/final goodbye it’s likely he warned her that would happen, he doesn’t mean it.

Since he has given you access to his phone/internet download all the cheating apps, signal, telegram, whatsapp, fb messenger, reddit etc etc and request a password reset using his email address given. It’s likely he might have set up accounts and if you get a link to reset a password you know he has been using them and deleted the app during his big cleanup when you gave him the heads up.

Are the messages you read still on his phone? Him deleting those prior to handing over the phone also shows he is in crisis clean up mode.

It’s disgusting he baited you into the message about your sexlife. Look at his actions don’t listen to his words because you know he can lie to your face without guilt.

I’d hide a VAR in his car, some look like keychains these days, drop it under the drivers seat, also place one in the home office if he has one. A girlfriend of mine recently caught her partner by setting up her iPad to video record and placing it in the room angled towards him then went for a shower, it recorded him instantly on his phone and touching himself when she was out of the room.

It’s still early days but, when you can, look up the typical things cheaters say and do after discovery, it has the nickname ‘cheater’s handbook’, there is no actual book, but you’d be surprised at how unoriginal the excuses and lies are, this "just" a kiss is utter bullshit, thereis never anything "just" There is always more.

To fortify yourself read up on either grey rock or 180 method and have those as reaction tools, drink water and get sleep, it’s so important early days. I relied heavily on meal shakes since I couldn’t feed myself, consider those too if you’re not eating much.

Get STD tested and be honest with the doctor about the why, they might offer you something for anxiety and sleep. Also have the hard talk about exposure via breastfeeding, see what the doctor says.

This is a big one, never update him on any plans or activities you set if you are considering D. You keep all cards close, even if you go down that path and it’s good for you, don’t utter a peep.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 6:05 AM, Monday, March 11th]

So from your posts, it sounds like she was pressuring him for when he was going to leave or that he was complaining to her about your marriage and sex life and telling her that he would leave when you were able to get a job. That being the case, the conversation about your sex life was most likely him "proving" to her that what he said about no sex at home was true or something similar. Otherwise, why on earth bring up something like that by phone from work?

I’m so sorry. You don’t have anything close to the whole story or the truth. But you do know that he’s been trying to keep her on the hook pretty desperately, and that he has told her that he loves her and that he was planning to leave you.

Now, you have to think of something else. You and your WH and the OW know about this A. Her BH has the right to know too so that he can protect himself, his kids, his finances, etc. It sucks, but it’s not fair for the 3 of you to have this information about his life that he doesn’t have, and it’s not likely that either of the 2 selfish assholes involved are going to let him in on it. It’s really important that you not discuss with your WH anything about informing the BH, not even the possibility of it. He will warn the OW. They will cover all tracks. She may feel safe and not be destroying evidence the way your WH is. Her BH has the right to know without his WW being pre-informed.

Again, I’m so sorry that you need to be here. This is the best place to face this nightmare. You will get plenty of support. For now, don’t share more of your thoughts and info with him. Especially, don’t share this site with him. You need a safe space where you can share without fear of his interference or influence.

Take care of yourself and your kids now and let him figure out what he needs and is willing to do. Then you will decide if it’s anything like enough. For starters:

—complete and total truth, no hiding, no denying, no more scrubbing anything
—get himself into IC just for him to figure out why he’s so fucked up to do this to his wife and children
—complete and total NC forever
—no blameshifting, no defensiveness, no anger. . .especially, no anger. He has NO right to anger in this situation about ANYTHING.

Sending you hugs of strength and support.

I have just managed another look at his phone. I wanted to get some screenshots and I was able to do so (although just for today’s conversation as he deletes it every night). I have more than enough evidence to confirm the affair now. After reading the texts today I just don’t see how R could ever be possible for us. I am beyond devastated. I have a feeling he has been telling OW he is going to leave me once our baby is in care and I am back at work. I have noticed a couple occasions where she questions whether things are sorted. Whether he is just lying to her to keep her interested or he truly plans to leave us I guess time will tell. To be honest, if I confront him and he says he wants to leave I think I will feel some relief. Then it is out of my control and the decision has been made. Either way, I don’t see us being able to R and I am going to begin planning my exit. My heart is breaking for my children and the life I thought was ahead of us.

Welcome to this site, Feeling Broken. I am really really sorry you are going through this hell. Unfortunately the majority of the people who are here know how it hurts.

Before I forget I need to tell you that if you need to look at his phone, which you have already done, you'd better take photos of the screens and then save them in a hidden place, open a secret account on gmail so you can save everything in the Google Drive. You never know if you need them in the future, also in case your husband denies, you can send him the screenshots so he can stop teasing you and you show him you are not naive.

Whatever your husband may say to you, please always remember the betrayal IS NOT YOUR FAULT BUT ONLY HIS CHOICE and you should never ever feel it is ok to be blamed for it. If he had problems with you, he had to address them instead of creating his double life and stop being a team player.

Unfortunately you have now to cope with the fact that your husband is able to lie to you and to protect his doubble life he will not tell you the truth from the beginning. He will make excuses, he will tell you the other story is not important and it probably isn't, but FOR YOU IT IS STILL DEVASTATING.

If I can give you a piece of advice (I was the betrayed wife for more than 4 years!!) please DO NOT MAKE ANY DECISION NOW REGARDING YOUR RELATIOSNHIP. It could be over or it could be the beginning of a much better relationship. If you prefer to pretend for a week, until your holiday is over, you can do it, you have the power to decide when you want to talk to your husband and how and in the meanwhile you can continue to observe him.

Maybe try to see if the night YOU decide you want to talk to him, you can organise for your children to sleep at your parents' or if you can have child care for some hours and you go out with your husband. I was lucky enough our children had already flown the nest when I found out and spoke to my husband and I cannot imagine having the constraints of my children being there, you have all my empathy.

Please get therapy ASAP and be careful in this place many people will tell you you have the right now to treat your husband as a puppet and DEMAND things from him. You need to decide if you want an "obedient" spouse or if you want to express him your deepest wishes and needs and let him decide what he wants to do as you slowly make your decisions. You will never be able to force him to do anything or if he did expect rebellion at one point.

You are devastated and probably angry (my anger came a lot later, I was only profoundly in pain, a pain I had never felt so strong before) but if you want your conversations to be effective, you need in my opinion to try to understand what he was looking for in the other relationship, why he did not explicitly made his requests or express his needs to you: was he fearing rejection or judgement? You need to talk to him from your heart, not from your head and try to connect with him. Or if you prefer you can talk in anger to him and hope he does not get defensive but he will likely. He needs to feel safe but also feel fear to lose you, he doe not have to give you for granted.

Tell him you know and you are devastated and you know you do not deserve any of this. But as much as you may think "it's over", consider the idea of losing you may help him come back to you a better person. If you need to vent, reach out also with private messages. Be strong!! I am sending you a big hug.

OP, don’t Mollycoddle the wayward spouse . Have a heart to heart with your therapist. Why he cheated is for him to figure out. The part of adulting is that everyone is responsible for their own choices and figuring out their own shit. Your daughter deserves a healthy and safe home where the father isn’t a cheating scumbag and respects their precious mother. So yes, if you want to stay and save the marriage,set boundaries.

I am so deeply sorry that you're here. One thing I cannot recommend enough is individual therapy for yourself to help you heal and process the trauma you are experiencing. What helped me also, was not making a decision to commit right away to reconciliation or separation. I told my WS we were no longer together and then proceeded to watch their actions and behavior post D-day to see if reconciliation was even on the table for me to offer. In the mean time it helped me immensely to remove the pressure from myself to make a decision and to focus on my own well being. Allow yourself the time to process your emotions, remember to be kind to yourself, to take care of yourself, and that this is a process that can take 2 to 5 years to recover from.

As far as you staying for the kids, IMO, I feel like you should know that you matter, that your happiness matters, and that your kids will also be happiest when you are in a situation that brings you happiness and when you are taken care of. Kids are not happy in chaotic homes with sad or hurt parents. If you ultimately find that you want to stay, please do so because you *want* to, not to self sacrifice for the kids, they wouldn't want that for you.

It is time for a polygraph. Get an experienced person who has done these many times. They can guide you about questions to ask.

No, but are you being serious?? What is the meaning of it? You don't need to find out the details, whether they had sex, complete intercourses or masturbation and texting, those are silly details that don't add anything to the story.

The truth, which should be enough and you already have it, is your husband was having an affair with another woman and betrayed your trust, your covenant, crushed your dignity and violated his marriages promises and your will to be in an exclusive, monogamous relationship. How many times they had sex is completely irrelevant. He lied to you many times and deceived you and that should suffice because it was not a one night stand but a choice he renewed every day for two years (if not longer because they are liars, remember?) and how he dared impregnate you whist he was having a double life is beyond my understanding and so offensive of his fatherhood.

If your future is based on a polygraph you'd better close the relationship now. You already know he can lie, so you don't need a polygraph to take things with a pinch of salt. He will obviously try to downsize the whole story, but stick to the basics: he had a double life and that is all that matters.

Surely you need to be STDs tested and hopefully you won't need to sue him and her for that. Consider if you really want the other betrayed spouse to know so that he can protect himself, his kids, his finances, etc. but honestly your priority is YOU and you only. I believe you really have enough in your plate considering the young age of your children.

I had not read that you have already given away a lot of information to him. Be careful he doe not have a second phone you know nothing about.

It really is a tough time and I am sure you will survive, as we all did, and remember "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" says the Kelly Clarkson's song. A big hug to you.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 6:24 PM, Monday, March 11th]

You don't need to find out the details, whether they had sex, complete intercourses or masturbation and texting, those are silly details that don't add anything to the story.

Many,if not most,bs do not feel that any of the things you listed are "silly details." You don't get to decide what amount of truth any other bs needs.

Op, you get to decide how many details you need.

Also..never reveal your sources. It was mentioned that you need to screenshot those messages(good idea), and show them to him when he lies. Never reveal your sources. He will then know how you have so much information, and you can bet he will be more careful using that particular avenue again.

Also..no one hear advocates that you turn him into a puppet. What we do encourage is that you set requirements for attempting reconciliation, and set boundaries. Ws always have the option to say no. Requirements are about what you expect for reconciliation. Boundaries are about respecting yourself enough not to tolerate one more minute of abuse.

I recommend a poly for a very specific reason. No one likes to be lied to. No one likes to be gaslit. No one likes to feel so manipulated that they don’t know reality anymore. A poly holds his feet to the fire so that you get your agenda back. So that you can know what your reality really is. So that you can stop him from lying to you. It gives you power back. It gives you control of your life back. That’s the beginning. If he comes clean and you feel comfortable working with him towards reunification, that’s your decision. If he continues to try to run rough shod over you, and your feelings, then that’s your answer. He’s not worth it.

No, but are you being serious?? What is the meaning of it? You don't need to find out the details, whether they had sex, complete intercourses or masturbation and texting, those are silly details that don't add anything to the story.

This is such an odd comment I couldn’t let it go. "Details that don’t add anything to the story"???? Knowing whether or not you’ve been exposed to STDs is not a silly detail. We aren’t talking about "a story." We’re talking about the truth of the BS’s life which she has every right to know in as much detail as she chooses. Most BSs feel a strong need to know as much of the truth of their marriage and life as possible. Each person gets to decide how much information they need without the use of judgmental words like "silly" applied to that need, whatever it is.

Truth and transparency are a minimal boundary for most people, especially BSs, in maintaining a relationship. OP, you get to decide what’s "enough" information for you. Among those of us on this site, there are BSs who feel they need all of the ugly details to move forward with their recovery (with or without their WS) and BSs who prefer to keep it general to avoid having to be stuck with all of the ugly information. It’s up to you.

I’m in the camp that the other BH has a right to know his truth, as well. Yes, it’s a lot to deal with in the midst of your own crisis. If he knew, wouldn’t you hope that he’d let you know? You don’t have to decide right now, but I hope he’ll be allowed to protect himself soon too. There’s nothing worse than knowing that so many people have kept the most intimate truth of your life from you.

Each of us has to decide our own right course through this hellscape. Many of us who share here offer the sad wisdom of our own missteps along this path. You’ll get great support here along with plenty of suggestions to take or leave.

Wishing you peace today.

Knowing whether or not you’ve been exposed to STDs is not a silly detail.

You can find out about STDs with a simple blood test on yourself. If you know your spouse had an affair, you KNOW they had sex, probably unprotected and that it happened and happened again and again. Every time they met the affair partner they were renewing the same CHOICE you already know about.

He lied to you many times and deceived you and that should suffice because it was not a one night stand but a choice he renewed every day for two years

I had two therapists and they both said to me the details of their encounters are really NOT NECESSARY, everybody knows what happens in an affair, but if I wanted to move on I had to ask important questions, not details, questions such as What was he looking for? What was he hoping to get from his affair partner? How did he live his double life? Did he ever think to break up from me? What has he learnt that can be useful in OUR relationship? What did the affair mean to him? Did he feel entitled to his affair? Did he feel guilty? What did he discover about himself in the affair? Why did he not feel he could express his needs to me? Did you ever get to a point where you felt you were losing yourself or felt torn and confused? Did you think the affair would help you stay in our relationship or help you leave? Did you ever see the affair as destroying our relationship? Did you want me to know and were you hoping to tell me? What was it like for you to lie? Did you tell anyone about the affair? Were you afraid I would find out or did you think I would never? What was it like for you when you were at home with me? Do you or did you want to leave me? Was the affair an addition to you or did you want her instead of me?

Then of course you can have a polygraph, hire a special forces specialist to implement The Five Collective Methods, the Interrogations Techniques, to obtain a confession that are: Prolonged wall-standing, Hooding, Subjection to Noise, Deprivation of Sleep, and Deprivation of Food and Drink.... but that is not the way I want MY relationship to be. YOUR CHOICE.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 1:52 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

Then of course you can have a polygraph, hire a special forces specialist to implement The Five Collective Methods, the Interrogations Techniques, to obtain a confession that are: Prolonged wall-standing, Hooding, Subjection to Noise, Deprivation of Sleep, and Deprivation of Food and Drink....

This is one of the most wild exaggerations I've read here.

OP, you're entitled to learn whatever details you feel are relevant. Don't let your husband, therapist, or anyone else tell you what is or isn't important in terms of your recovery. You're also allowed to--and ought to-- set boundaries for yourself and conditions for what you expect from him in order to consider reconciliation.

This is one of the most wild exaggerations I've read here.

A Polygraph is one of the techniques used with criminals... "The primary purpose of the polygraph test in security screening is to identify individuals who present serious threats to national security."

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2003. The Polygraph and Lie Detection. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. https://doi.org/10.17226/10420.

The exaggeration is the idea to use such a technique with your own spouse, treating them like a criminal. So I added other techniques used with criminals to show you how ridiculous that is...

Well, I don't know in your country, but even if betrayal is a terrible and dishonest thing, no cheater gets charged with a crime for cheating, not in any Western countries that I know of, so the polygraph is definitely out of proportion.

But you are free to suggest what you find reasonable for you, of course. I have never cheated and will never cheat but if my spouse proposed the polygraph, I would not accept it. It would be the clear clue that our relationship is over.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:05 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

The polygraph is a tool used to determine the truth.

In this country, it is very commonly used in adultery situations. There are entire businesses set up,just for that purpose.

It is unhelpful to new members to exaggerate wildly. They are in severe pain.

Let's get this thread back to support the op.

The primary purpose of the polygraph test in security screening is to identify individuals who present serious threats….

There is no greater security threat than a lying cheating spouse in your home. Your health, finances and physical security are all in the hands of an enemy to the M.

It is unhelpful to new members to exaggerate wildly.

Exactly!! But do not try to dismiss other people's ideas, please.

Let her read about an idea that is different from yours so she can make HER decisions. At the end of the day other ideas are as worthy of attention as yours or do we have all to conform to ONE IDEA? Let her decide if she wants a kind of military operation towards her spouse so that he says "Yes, Sir!" TO HER, like he would say to a commander or let us see what type of approach she wants to decide. you cannot impose your point of you. I really don't care how long you have been on this site.

She is an adult and her pain and her sensitivity will make her decide what is best for her, not for you.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:03 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

There are entire businesses set up, just for that purpose

Exactly, they know how to make you spend money because they take advantage of your vulnerability.

@Feel Broken make your choices according to your values and according to what type of relationship you want now and want to create with your husband. You are facing a very tough time but never lose your integrity making choices you will regret.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:11 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]

do not try to dismiss other people's ideas, please.

This is what everyone has been asking you not to do. Like dismissing the polygraph, and saying it's akin to torture tactics..or dismissing a bs need for the truth,by saying they're silly details.

Not one person has treated their spouse the way you keep insisting we are.

FeelingBroken

I’m sorry you have made this discovery, please don’t push for R, take some time and get out of infidelity first. You need demand NC and a written timeline. He needs to answer all your questions without being defensive. You run this now and needs to be willing to do whatever it takes to become safe again.

Not one person has treated their spouse the way you keep insisting we are.

Suggesting a military technique to get the truth seems to me bad enough. Where do you draw the line? Why not waterboarding him?

At the end of the day she knows already the truth and the truth is that her husband has had a double life and has deceived her and told her lies whilst he was having a complete relationship with another woman. She knows it is not a one-night stand but a proper relationship. Whoever has had a relationship before and is not a teenager knows what it means.

If she needs to spend money, she can save her the polygraph and choose a valid therapist without letting an attorney eat her savings for something already obvious.

But this is my idea and she can read yours and freely decide what suits her best.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 7:46 PM, Tuesday, March 12th]