SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

there's always that nagging feeling of "what's wrong with me?"

Nothing at all. He just isn't a match for you. If this is his best foot forward, it's only going to go downhill.

There are many things that bother you about him at this early stage. Next him. Onward!

It's funny, I think sometimes in this day and age, people are made to feel like "good manners" are misinterpreted.

For example...walking you to your car on the first date could be seen as creepy and stalker-ish. Touching you on the first date (while helping you with your coat, holding your hand on the ice) could be "too familiar." I have seen so many blogs titled "an open letter to the creep I met on OLD" where things like helping a woman with her coat was labeled "invading my personal space" or "a lame excuse to touch me" (with no follow up that a man was handsy or did any touching except for helping with a jacket. I was left scratching my head, wondering when things changed. It's as if the world has turned on its head.

That being said, I would think that a man with good manners / good upbringing would OFFER to walk you to your car (and allow you to say no or not), or at least stand in the parking lot keeping an eye on you until you got in. Also, I'm not sure that a man in his 60's would be reading these "open letters" so I don't think he is holding back from being a gentleman due to his worrying about how you will perceive him.

IMO you are not a match for this guy. He doesn't give you the care and attention you need (and a mid-week text or a note asking how your surgery went is not too much to expect!). There is nothing wrong with you. Keep your standards high and you will find someone who steps up to them.

Hmmmm I'm just a little apprehensive that he was an alcoholic. That's just red flags...I grew up with an abusive alcoholic....be leery.

In saying all that, I am divorcing someone that was extremely neglectful of me... I would rather die alone than experience that loneliness again.

Please dont settle.

Supreese- I get the same vibe, I thought it was me, being me.....my covert sex addict STBX... they are addicted to everything and misogynists! Now, you're making me think we should tell her to fucking run.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 11:26 PM, December 15th (Sunday)]

Well, I didn't contact him since we met last Friday and I didn't hear a word from him, either.

And, I really don't care at this point.

He filled a void for a few weeks, but I want a guy who is really "into" me.

I hope it happens. I'm still optimistic.

Happy Holidays to all of you...

Yes! When a man is truly into you, you will know. You deserve no less. He is out there.

"Gentlemen are absolutely still out there. My boyfriend does all the things you mentioned and frankly I have become spoiled and accustomed this treatment, to the point that I dont think I would accept anything else. No, you're not asking too much."

^^^this^^^^

Plus I firmly believe that if a man wants you in his life he will make it absolutely crystal clear!!

Good men do exist. Sometimes other women toss diamonds in the rubbish bin. Look around this group for examples. If you want a diamond don't settle for cut glass or soon enough you will be walking on broken glass. imho

I'm not even trying to pull my punches. This "man" has issues. I don't know a single man that hasn't walked me to my car, especially if it's been parked in a dark area. Not one man.

Please take this to heart, you are not the problem, he is. This doesn't make him a bad guy, just not one worth having a relationship with.

The only problem I see is that you still aren't at a point of healing and self worth to recognize it yourself and didn't walk away sooner.

For example...walking you to your car on the first date could be seen as creepy and stalker-ish. Touching you on the first date (while helping you with your coat, holding your hand on the ice) could be "too familiar." I have seen so many blogs titled "an open letter to the creep I met on OLD" where things like helping a woman with her coat was labeled "invading my personal space" or "a lame excuse to touch me" (with no follow up that a man was handsy or did any touching except for helping with a jacket. I was left scratching my head, wondering when things changed. It's as if the world has turned on its head.

If I may pitch in as a man . I will not comment on the OP specific date, but, in general, when I was dating, it was a juggling act. I would offer things like walking to her car or a ride home, but not insisting. I would not text too much or too quickly because it would look like I was obsessed or creepy.

Sometimes it felt like damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

I once dated a black belt (karate) and I’m not sure who was protecting who ha ha . It’s the 21st century. Women can be strong independent individuals. That black belt lady always prefers that I pay everything which was fine. Others always wanted dutch which is fine.

So at the end of the day, I would focus on the conversation. Do I enjoy her company? Does she seem interested? I don’t want to date only for sex. I’ve done the FWB thing... not for me. And I don’t want it to go too far if she’s not that interested. It goes both ways

Good luck!

I agree that since he hasn't show interest in you to let this one go. It doesn't sound like he turns you on either, so it's just as well.

There was one thing you said, OP, that I wanted to respond to... You said it was too early after 4 dates to have a conversation with him about this.

I think it you were interested in him and he did call you and date 5 was on the horizon I would let him know that you enjoy receiving the attentions of a gentleman. That opening a door for you, taking your coat, letting you know you look nice are things that help you feel relaxed and well taken care of.

Like ShutterHappy said, women are all different, and your date is not a mindreader.

The great thing about bringing this stuff up, is that the guy's reaction to your straightforward sharing of what floats your boat will be very telling. He'll either open the next door for you or bolt... and then you know whether he can be a gentleman for you or not.

I did this after 4 very nice but somewhat cool dates with a man. (He took me to a wildlife refuge and asked for $4 for my half of the parking fee) When I said I feel relaxed when a man shows he cares with simple gestures like opening a door for me, he kind of stuttered and mentioned something about trust and meeting people on match.... Instead of stepping forward into that gentle invitation I made, he stepped back energetically. And I was glad for this information.

Since he's a nice man and we share an interest in nature I suggested we be friends. In a year we've had 3 fun outdoor walks birding. No flirtation, 100% in the friend zone. I am so glad I had the conversation with him after date 4 and got super clear where this was headed.

I highly recommend these kinds of conversation if you are ever in this situation again. It's not confrontational, just gently sharing what you enjoy, and then sit back and see if he makes a move to provide you with an experience that makes you happy.

InnerLight - I really like your idea. If I ever get into this kind of predicament again, I'm going to be very upfront and mention these things, in a nice way, of course.

That way, if he really likes me, I'll see a change, and if he bolts - then he wasn't too interested in making me feel special. So nothing lost that way.

Thanks for the advice - once I read what you wrote, I thought - wow - that's a really good idea.

Why am I always worrying about how my words will affect my date? If I have an opinion, I should just say it. Guess I better start putting myself first, right?

Merry Christmas!!

Opening doors and walking you to your car should be things a gentleman already does on his own. He shouldn't have to be told. I have gone on dates where men didn't do these things and I never went on a second date with these men. I don't think I'd want to have to tell a man how to be a man. If he doesn't like doing these things, then we certainly aren't a match to begin with. There are some women who don't want a man to open doors for them or to walk them to their car for their safety and that's who they should be with.

Even Innerlight telling the man she preferred these things didn't do any good, he still didn't step his game up because it's who he is. It just seems like having to tell somebody to be somebody that they are not is a waste of breath. JMHO.

Why am I always worrying about how my words will affect my date? If I have an opinion, I should just say it

If you are looking for a long term relationship, why not just be yourself? He will either like you the way you are, or he won’t in which case, it’s best to know early.

Be yourself, stop worrying, life becomes simpler... and enjoy your dates!

That is not too much to ask. Don't apologize or second guess your needs and desires. For me it shows some character and upbringing that I find important. It just says something to me about a man. I don't think that is a bad thing. I have been through too much to settle for less than I am worth and the same goes for you.

Opening doors and walking you to your car should be things a gentleman already does on his own. He shouldn't have to be told. I have gone on dates where men didn't do these things and I never went on a second date with these men. I don't think I'd want to have to tell a man how to be a man. If he doesn't like doing these things, then we certainly aren't a match to begin with. There are some women who don't want a man to open doors for them or to walk them to their car for their safety and that's who they should be with.

Personally I do those things for everyone regardless of their gender. Thankfully I've never been treated negatively for doing them for strangers, but I know men who have. But this right here is why dating sucks. Damned if you do, damned if you don't depending on who you're with at the time. Do you tell the men you reject this is the reason why?

And the part in bold. There are some lady/feminine behaviors that I'm sure if a man spoke of in this manner, he'd be labeled a sexist.

Again personally, I want a lady and I want to act as a gentleman. But I'm still on the young side, and there's a lot of women my age (or younger) that would label me a misogynist for talking like how you're talking about men. It's really sad IMO, I think manners should make a comeback and people shouldn't be as easily offended - but that's where our current society it seems to be. And I think that's also an answer to "where have the gentlemen have gone?".

Generally speaking, I think the best thing is to be open and honest up front about expectations, you want a gentleman and you want to act as a lady, say it. People are not mind readers. And if he doesn't live up to it, then move on. But it's also a two-way street.

Shattered, you state you're younger, I'm not. I've been on this planet for half a century. I come from a different time. I've never been on a blind date, nor have I done any form of online dating. The men I've dated were men I'd known for at least a short length of time. No, I did not tell them why. I do not intend to in the future either. Misogynist implies hatred of women. Expecting a woman to act like a lady, and a man to act like a gentleman, is not exhibiting a hatred for that sex but standards for oneself.

My male relatives were taught from the time they could toddle to a door to open it for Mama, sister, and any other female. Both my ex husband and I taught the boys the same things. If I have to tell a man basic things he should have grown up with, then that's raising a boy to be a man. I'm not mothering anymore men in this lifetime. It also means we are not compatible. Period. Telling a man he is not a gentleman is also not very ladylike. There are some things I expect automatically and some that I'd be willing to discuss. Nobody has to teach me how to be a lady, how to be gracious, or how to be kind and considerate. Some men don't expect those things, or want them. A great example; I expect any man I become involved with to help me out in the kitchen. If a future man became involved with me, and he didn't offer to help, there would be a discussion about expectations. Same with cleaning the shared home. And, I would fully expect to crawl up under the hood and assist with car maintenance, or any other traditionally (in the past) "male" oriented chore.

If a man was kind enough to open a door, a lady would be expected to show appreciation with a smile and a thank you. I would fully expect a gentleman to drop dating a woman if she couldn't show basic graciousness. Should he have to tell her she is supposed to be gracious?

Excellent question!

I have been wondering the same for quite some time. However, I guess we should be also asking where are all the ladies?