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Boy. I'm not clear on the back story, but as prose goes, this was the most confusing gibberish I have seen since trying to read Finnegans Wake.. Maybe you have an inkling what she is talking about but I don't. Is she sorry? Damned if I can tell. Does she want you? Can't tell. Seems like she wanted you to go to Iceland but didn't. I think I got that much. Or maybe the orient. Not sure. So did she cheat because you traveled somewhere? Or is Dr. Fu Man Chu in there somewhere?

She "even" slept in the living room. Wow. That's what I call really working on R. This person is up there with Joan of Arc.

She was indifferent? Yeah, so? So I guess it's ok she had an A?

She wants you to ask her what she meant by what she said. How about what she meant by what she did?

So you wanted to get even by not wanting to be with her? Well, its a theory. Maybe you didn't want to be around her used ass.

You want to stay with this person? if so, you might want to study the techniques of the North Koreans when they practiced brainwashing. Cuz I think we all just saw it in action.

I don't know why you can't just get over this little MISTAKE your WW made. You're dooming her to be all alone foreverrrrr. You bastard, squid.

She doesn't get it, squid. Probably she never will. You shouldn't feel like you're "the bad guy". The "bad guy" is your WW. I think with the proper explanation your children should be able to understand. After all she left and is neglecting them. I don't remember the age of your children but there's an age appropriate way to explain that what your WW did and her follow-up actions are just too painful for you to bear and the best solution for you is to not have her in your life.

But she seems to think that we're on even ground and therefore doesn't believe there any "more" that she needs to do.

Squid, your distillation is right on. She's arguing moral equivalency throughout her message.

Squid, I know you're in pain, but it really is time to detach. You've been on the fence for a year now. Your kids are older, you are not as bad off financially as others. Her email should bring you clarity. She is not remorseful and she will never be a safe partner. You know what you need to do...

Hey squid,

Seems she is trying to open up a conversation. So, rather than ask everyone here what she means, why don't you ask her. Remember, just because you have a conversation doesn't mean you have to reconcile. Why don't you just sit down and have an honest to god conversation with her about this email.

NeverBeBlindAgain,

I could take this apart more but I'll just give my .02.

Shes trying to see where you are so she knows what angle to came from. Right now she is clueless on where YOU are emotionally and she needs to know so she can manipulate the game so you stay. Right now she is digging, hoping to hit a nerve and get you to react not respond. We all know reacting shows all our cards and leaves us very vulnerable. A response (im guessing thats what you do) doesnt show our hand and leaves people like her guessing and feeling like its out of HER control. Tough fuckin cookies lady. You have control on what happens and she doesnt like it so in one email has used so many control tactics my head spin.

It's all over the place for sure. I'm trying to be NC/180 as much as possible.

So Drumstick's suggestion of talking to her about it seems a little counter-intuitive. I always go into these conversations thinking she'll see things my way. But I really have come to understand that we have completely different perspectives. I'm talking a real fundamental difference in how we see things. I don't know if we're compatible any more. Maybe we never were. I just thought we were...

I always go into these conversations thinking she'll see things my way. But I really have come to understand that we have completely different perspectives. I'm talking a real fundamental difference in how we see things. I don't know if we're compatible any more. Maybe we never were. I just thought we were...

Squid....this is message that I should read over and over. Like you I "think" I know what my WW will say or how she will act in these discussions. But I don't. She has her side of the story, I have mine. We'll never see eye to eye. She thinks she's the victim and I think I'm the victim. We are not compatible. I can't speak for her but I know I (as well as my kids) will be better off without her in my life. We are not compatible.

Sometimes we get into complicated situations with people and our pride gets in the way of us being completely honest because it makes us vulnerable and those of us who are BS's are usually codependent controlling types and we can't bear to say anything that might hurt another person so instead of speaking from the heart, we speak the words that we think will make them do what we think they should do. And instead of really listening, we're thinking about our response.

I might have detected a bit of this in her email; shes sort of prodding Squid to open a dialogue and see if she can find a small place to get back in but her pride is keeping her from laying it all out there.

This has gone on long enough, Squid. I wonder if you might just call her up and tell her you still love her and you forgive her and you want to start over and just go from there. I realize that opens you up to a mountain of hurt but it also puts an end to this Limbo and the risk might be worth it. It'll either work out or it won't but i'll end this nightmare one way or the other.

Josie,

This has gone on long enough, Squid. I wonder if you might just call her up and tell her you still love her and you forgive her and you want to start over and just go from there. I realize that opens you up to a mountain of hurt but it also puts an end to this Limbo and the risk might be worth it. It'll either work out or it won't but i'll end this nightmare one way or the other.

I've tried this. Many times. But she keeps waffling between wanting to maybe, kinda R and just going our separate ways. Obviously, her ability to support herself seems to weigh heavier in her mind than with trying to give our marriage another shot.

As SuperDaddy said, she doesn't really get my side of the story. In fact, she calls me controlling and trying to change her because I try so hard to get her to understand my side. But she always goes back to her pain from before alluding to the problems we had in our marriage and her subsequent checking out.

I'm torn between the narrative of her letter that I WANT to hear and the TRUE narrative which others here have helped distill. An that's of a person who is trying to find a way to not get kicked out of the house, but at the same time doesn't really want a marriage.

Squid,

If you do decide to speak with her... go in with an open mind. No hopes or preconceptions of what you, or anyone here, thinks she means. Only she knows what she means... and that is probably cloudy, at best. If you do so, ask questions to help clarify in your mind what she means. Give her an example, and ask her, "Is this what you mean?"

Again... having this conversation doesn't mean you are reconciling. Also, if you go into it without preconceptions, or hope, you don't have to get emotionally hurt either.

Squid- The ruins of my relationship are hanging on by a thread. It's only a matter of time before we file for D.. but I've made 100% clear that my WH has to do it. He chose this outcome for us. This is his mess. He has to be the one to file and do the dirty work.

It's the LEAST your WW can do to spare you ANY guilt of "breaking up" your family. Nooooo, she made that choice for you. And any assumption on her part that this would just be a bump in the road and be recoverable, is just that. And ASSumption.

Should you choose D, make her do it. If that makes you feel better.

[This message edited by smilethrupain at 6:08 PM, September 15th (Friday)]

This is his mess. He has to be the one to file and do the dirty work

Unfortunately for me its not that easy. My WW will never file. She doesn't want to be the bad guy. I'll have to do the dirty work even though I didn't create this mess. But I'm kinda used to it by now. I'm ised to doing the dirty work, even in our marriage.

I look at it as I'll have to file so my kids and I can move forward.

I sincerely hope she has some amazing assets she brings to the table because damn son, that was a very telling missive that has more red flags waving than a parade in China.

Accepting that dialog basically means admitting that you have problems and control issues that prevent you from graciously accepting her generous offer for you to be her fallback plan to provide for her.

What the actual fuck!

Smilethrupain,

Should you choose D, make her do it. If that makes you feel better.

There's no way she'll do it. First, it would mean an end to the life she's come accustomed to. And, like SuperDaddy, that would turn her into the bad guy. The one that broke up the family.

Even earlier on, she didn't talk about D. It was usually me mentioning it. Only because she never wanted to really R. So in my mind, what else was there? Why would/should I settle for a M that is nothing less than fully committed to by both partners?

So even if she never has another A, I still consider it cheating because she's enjoying the comfort of a domestic partnership without fully committing to the marriage, ie a celibate marriage. But of course she'll have sex with her AP.

She is trying to make your decision to D very easy to make.

Look thru the smoke screen.

She is still in the A. for sure still in her mind. She will not cheat on her AP.

The thing that jumped out at me is her recruiting her brother in law to psychoanalyze you. If you do any further joint therapy sessions, where there's no way for her to skew what you say, I might say something like this in your place:

Putting any of my behavior in our marriage in the same scale as you screwing someone else during our marriage is just breath-taking to me. For every future joint event we HAVE to have with the children, just know that being civil around someone who did something so evil to me is exhausting and if I have a choice to not be around you and still have the experience with my children, it's not out of revenge. It's so that I can actually focus on my children and enjoy it instead of having to be around someone who has deemed me such an enemy and unhuman that you could do something of this magnitude to me. Why on earth would you want to be around me when you HAD to have seen me that way? It certainly wasn't love for me you were feeling when you screwed with him!

k8la,

I know I've used "distillation" a lot in this thread. But your comment really did that for me.

As for others, for the BS's, the fog we suffer from can be so disorienting. We're trying so hard to make sense of what is reality and what we want to be reality.

Even having multiple sets of eyes analyzing our sitches can still lead us to a state of ambivalence as to what path to choose.

But I like yours. The thing is, I don't know if it was a conscious decision of deeming me so unimportant as it was a need to satisfy an urge of hers. You know? It doesn't justify it at all. But for WS's there's something in them that requires them to seek that justification. At whatever cost.

I'm not justifying her actions. Just trying to understand them. Which I have stated before can drive one insane.

My 2 cents

It's was a nice enough letter.

It was a good act of communication. She expressed herself. Fine.

Not sure why folks are flaming her.

The reality is that your WW (nor mine) will ever get it. They just can't. They aren't us. Can't read minds nor hearts. They aren't Jesus. They are missing something. They also dwell in 'emotional reality'. Look that up. They didn't value something in the M in such a way that allowed them to cross lines and boundaries. Naturally they wouldn't understand our sense of value nor our feeling of loss over something they didn't value.

I am at the point of accepting, deep inside emotionally, that my WW wont ever get it. That means the real task ahead is moving forward. There is no value to rummaging through the pain of the past or figuring shit out. Whatever moving forward looks like to you. Or me.

[This message edited by redhorse at 8:01 AM, September 16th (Saturday)]

Squid-

I just want to add my voice to the chorus of people saying don't worry about coming across as the bad guy. This is a long game. And actions will tell more than words. Who you are will show. And people will see.

About them "getting it."- I came to an understanding that I was never going to understand what happened because it was so completely foreign to me. She went completely off the deep end and there is no rational explanation that will ever satisfy me. So I stopped trying. Usually. - (and the real truth in that is on those days when she's in my head much more strongly than I would normally allow, I DO try to figure out some of the 'why's and 'what if's'- until I recognize that I am trying to figure it out and that it is just f-ed up and cognitively I have to remind myself that it just is that way and I won't understand why.)

Keep wrestling with this as much as you need to. When you're tired enough of it, you'll do whatever you decide is best. And we will be with you and support you.

K8la.....I hope you don't mind but I'm printing your post out and will memorize it. I want my WW to hear these words bc this is EXACTLY how I feel. I don't want to be around her anymore than I absolutely have to be. And that doesn't mean I want to be "friends" (she still can't understand why i don't want to be friends with her) I just want to spend time with my childen.

As others have said Squid.... we will never get an answer as to why. Or at least an acceptable answer. I'm getting to that point that Minnesota talked about. I'm tired of it consuming my life. And honestly, I just don't care anymore. I will never understand why she had an A....and she will never understand the hurt and pain she put me through.

It's like the old saying goes "We'll just agree to disagree!"

[This message edited by SuperDaddy1027 at 5:46 AM, September 16th (Saturday)]