SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know this crap is hard Squid. The decision to D or R is a tough decision. First off you have to have a WS willing to admit what they did and seek help for it. Unfortunately you have an unremorseful wife who wants to blame everything and everyone but herself. I tried for 3yrs to R with an unremorseful spouse. It doesn't work.

It's just so confusing. Now that she's back home, she's being super polite. Trying to stay out of my way, to give me space I presume. It's so tempting to believe that she's trying to be remorseful.

This is not remorse. This is rug sweeping. Until she can come to you with real remorse the most you will ever get is regret she got caught, blame shifting, gas lighting, manipulation, etc...Sure she can be polite as long as you avoid the elephant in the room and she can waltz around like nothing ever happened. This is typical WS behavior and BS co-dependent behavior. Until you say no more than this is the way it will continue.

I am sorry. D is a hard decision to make and it's not fair that we have to be the one to initiate it, but it is what it is. Sometimes it brings them out of their fog, but not always. When they are too far gone it is hard to bring them back. (((HUGS)))

josiep,

I never in a million years thought he could possibly turn on me with the disrespect and dishonesty I believed I had at least earned that.

So do not be fooled by her. DO NOT BE FOOLED BY HER.

Once they get into this mode, whatever label anyone wants to put on it, they are lost to us. They are no longer normal people.

Please, Squid, file for D and get it over with and move on with your life. You deserve so much better and it's just killing me to see such a fine man with so much character and courage being toyed with by someone who has gone to the dark side.

I'm not even sure it's their fault, I'm still debating that one in my mind. But I do now know and accept that I will lose my life (not as in death but as in really living) if I keep trying to fix him. You are in the same exact situation I was.

I'm going to Atlantic City this weekend. Wanna come?

I've been mulling over all of the things she's done and said over the past 7 or so months. Shit. I just realized today is exactly 7 months out.

She belittled me a lot over the years. But I took it thinking that if I held out just long enough she would have a change of heart and turn towards our marriage again. Well that blew up in my face. And now, after the callous disrespect and dishonesty she dealt me with her A, I know I can never see her as I did before. Even if she changed on a dime today, I just know in my heart that I couldn't trust her for a really long time. Like you, I never would have dreamed she could have fallen so hard.

I'm going to file this month. I'm a little awash in catching up with my classes and letting life settle after the hurricane. I only have to fill out my financial affidavit and then I can file. I'll continue to chip away at it and hopefully have everything ready by next Monday or Tuesday. My heart finally feels it's the right thing to do.

If I could finagle a trip to Atlantic City, I'd definitely be there!

Ratpicker, Stunned, TrustGone

:

I often wonder now what is real and what ruse. Yeah, trust all gone.

First off you have to have a WS willing to admit what they did and seek help for it.

She took responsibility for it, but was/is defensive and minimizes it still, as evident in the letter. I've actually never read of one WS that owned it as I think every BS wishes they would. But I also realize that waiting for that level of remorse to manifest itself may see me becoming very old way too soon.

I often wonder now what is real and what ruse. Yeah, trust all gone.

"Every relationship (husband and wife, parent and child, best friends, colleagues)is dependent on trust. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone you cannot trust. The only thing you can have with someone you can’t trust is a strategy."

==Sheri Dew

This popped up on a FB memory thing from a posting I made 2 years ago. I reposted it there because it made an important impression on me then and now. Maybe it will bring you some clarity.

She took responsibility for it, but was/is defensive and minimizes it still, as evident in the letter.

I think she may have seemed like she took responsibility at first but she definitely isn't owning it now. It's all about what you're doing wrong and how you're punishing her now. I don't think defensiveness and minimizing is compatible with really taking responsibility. She wouldn't be the first or last WS to fake it at first and then change her mind later though.

nekonamida,

She wouldn't be the first or last WS to fake it at first and then change her mind later though.

Do you mean change her mind towards remorse and R?

Dressing monumental betrayal in self-indulgent psychobabble.

Who's on first?

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 11:49 PM, September 23rd (Saturday)]

We should all arrange a group Atlantic city trip for those that can make it!!!

I didn't bother reading her self-serving bullshit. It's been months and months and months of the same nonsense, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseum.

Same shit, different flies.

Jesus, you finally had this plague out of your house and you go and let her right back in.

I can't believe that you're getting false hope here that she might 'fake it' at first then change her mind down the road and become remorseful. And you jumped RIGHT on that morsel.

You have a better chance of shaking hands with Jesus than you do of her becoming a decent human being. It's not going to happen - that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

[This message edited by NoMercy at 12:58 PM, September 24th (Sunday)]

So she sent me another letter today.

Pretty much "Just to Talk 2.0".

It's a long one.

Not one mention of the betrayal or infidelity. Nor is there any mention of wanting to R. I may post it but there's really not much different from the previous one. Lots of victimhood. How tough things are going to be for her on her own. How much she knows I'll will never forgive or pity her. Her worries about being estranged from her children. Thanking me for not kicking her out.

I want to respond. Not sure how or if it's even worth my time.

I may chime back with k8la's quote:

Putting any of my behavior in our marriage in the same scale as you screwing someone else during our marriage is just breath-taking to me. For every future joint event we HAVE to have with the children, just know that being civil around someone who did something so evil to me is exhausting and if I have a choice to not be around you and still have the experience with my children, it's not out of revenge. It's so that I can actually focus on my children and enjoy it instead of having to be around someone who has deemed me such an enemy and unhuman that you could do something of this magnitude to me. Why on earth would you want to be around me when you HAD to have seen me that way? It certainly wasn't love for me you were feeling when you screwed with him!

But it may just be wasted keystrokes.

Yeah - Crickets is the best option.

She's just someone you used to know.

There's someone on another forum that I post on who has a similar situation and whenever he engages her he gets spewed on.

This is a continuation of the first of the first email I sent. I don't know if you read it. There's a lot of things that I forgot and I feel I have to say them or I'll never have a chance to and this seems like a safer, healthier way. I'm hormonal too so this means of communication helps me. I don't want to be yelled at anymore. I actually thought I shouldn't send it but you should know about these as well. If you don't read this it's really ok and you don't have to reply either. In fact I actually would prefer that you don't but if you want to it's ok. I only ask that you please reply nicely. The purpose of sending this is really to try to communicate them and I do realize that you may take them out of context. But, I hope you are able to see what I've written in different angles. Writing in my journal is good but its really meant for you. This may be the last one that I will write and send to you. If you prefer that I don't send anymore please let me know. Like before, this may be all over the place and I apologize. Also, forgive the length as I'm trying to say all I can in a limited opportunity.

When you said that night that what I say, do, and think are all different, I actually told (IC) that exact same thing the day before. I wanted to ask you if I am the same way and I may not be aware of it. I realize now I that I confuse you in the same way too.

On my last email I mentioned about acceptance. The pain, fear, and distrust won't really go away, but they won't be so bad after awhile. I know the pain I've experienced in numerous occasions during sex is a big part of why I don't want to be intimate. That fear still lurks somewhere. You talk about being violated, I've felt that too. I felt that you didn't care so much that I get hurt as long as it was pleasurable for you. I know that's not true but that's what I felt it. And worse, I feel guilty and I blame myself that I get hurt, that somehow it's my fault. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to hurt your feelings or ruin the moment for you just because it wasn't easy for me. And I regret that I didn't talk to you about it while I still felt a connection with you. I know we will never get that connection again because we've changed and we see each other differently. I mourn those missed opportunities that could've helped me, us. I talked about my longing for you when I went home that I had to dismiss. The other is my own submission to despair. I let my emotions cloud my judgement and blinded me to the genuine efforts that you were doing. I recognized then that you really wanted to change that part of you that was hurting me but I let the darkness in me misguide me into thinking that you were only doing it for personal gain. I sincerely and deeply apologize for my lack of faith. And for that I don't deserve you.

I also want to say that our relationship is never out of convenience. Nothing is convenient for me. I'm not as fortunate as you but I know that I work hard at anything. I worked so hard for years on our marriage even when I felt alone in it. I know you don't even believe that I did anything good at all but being beside you all those years and protecting you from my family's dysfunction is something. I'm truly sorry that I couldn't fight anymore. We all have our breaking point and I reached mine and I'm really sorry.

Another thing that I need you to know is that I love our family. I know you may not believe that but I didn't dedicate half of my life because I didn't care or because it was convenient. My feelings for you may have changed but my affection for our family will never change.

(BIL) has been telling me to fight for myself. I believe I can still accomplish that without hating myself. I want to be a better person and I will try. I'm not expecting pity or forgiveness and I know you're not extending either to me. But, I will continue to atone for my sins as long as I can in my own way.

I've learned that no matter how hard you try to please everyone, you can't. I've spent half of my life trying to please you even if it hurt me in the process. The same thing happened to you in the past 4 years. I've also learned that nothing in life is easy and it could be a good thing. I've learned to appreciate and embrace my challenges. I don't know if you think and feel that you have the power in our struggle because you have the resources and you try to control me the way your mom controls you? This is really just a question and nothing more. I ask myself a lot of questions. I'm not sure if you do the same. I know that everything I've gone through and everything that I will go through- the pain, the mistakes, the failures, and especially the lessons are preparing me, changing me, and molding me into the person I am meant to be. I know I'll be ok even if I end up alone. I need for you to be ok too not for my conscience but for you and most importantly for our kids, I really do care about you. I want you to be and happy in the ways you want and need. I want us all to heal in a healthy way. I don't know what would make you whole but I know it's not me. I'm certain you weren't whole before we met but our years together didn't make you completer either. As for me, I thought and felt I had everything. I had you and the kids but I felt inadequate still. It definitely has something to do with how you felt because our feelings bleed over to the people around us. But, what and/or how I felt is not on you. I should've held on to my feelings of wholeness but I didn't know how, I didn't have the proper support or even the tools. Sometimes I feel like my purpose in life was to bear your children, to give you and your mom happiness through them because you both don't entirely fulfill each other. And I have my worries too. I worry that my relationship with the kids will become estranged with time. I already feel a disconnect with them somehow and that's probably not just me. That is the saddest for me. I do try to still be part of their lives but it seems as they grow up they want their own. I know that happens eventually and I have to be tougher and accept that. But, I'm glad that they are close to you. That deems inevitable because they have your personality.

I read a lot of self heIp articles and they all stick to me especially if they impact me in any way. No matter how long ago I've come across these readings I remember what I learned from it. I need you to know that I listen to everything you say and I process them and I do take them seriously. I know you don't want to support me and that's ok. I think it's an opportunity for me to grow. I really don't want to be dependent on you or a burden to you. The help I ask is really for emergencies and especially if something happens to my parents back home. That is something I have to consider with what I have and my lack of support here. You are so lucky that you have family in both continents, I hope you realize that. I'm more sure now about what you need me to do. And it's clear to me where I am and certainly where I need to be. I know you want me gone as soon as I can and I realize that I don't deserve to ask for anything and I've overstayed my welcome. I'm so sorry it took so long. I think it's hard out there for everyone. But I think if something is meant for you, it manifests itself when you're ready. Regarding this new job, training is a month then there's a probationary period of 60 days. That's all I'm asking for. Please. I'm very grateful that you haven't kicked me out. I'll start looking for my own place next year. I'm sorry that's not soon enough.

Squid, your WW has no business psychoanalyzing anyone but that didn't stop her from writing that long email attempting to point out how broken you are. If she still thinks "wholeness" is something accomplished by external sources (i.e. other things and people), she hasn't learned much at all. People's feelings of satisfaction with life come from within. People who search for "wholeness" from others are chronically unsatisfied and ripe for As because that empty feeling makes them weak to ego kibbles temptations.

All I can really say is wow. She spends most of her time blaming you.

Yeah you're so broken, Squid. You're the problem.....No fucking way! You didn't cheat, she did. Period, end of story.

Rockets couldn't get you away fast enough from her.

I NEEEEDDD you to know how much you hurt me and how much you didn't support me and how my whole mission was just to make you happy and how i dont have any support and that's fine. Just keep paying my rent and supporting me until next year - Ok?

this girl is so far beyond delusional.

This is why NC is a thing.

Good luck and reject the ravings of a loon.

"Please stop writing to me.

Keep your pathetic psycho-babble to yourself, and consider this an "unsubscribe" from further correspondence."

I do realize that you may take them out of context

Well, to put some context to it, there are 180 I's and me's, and only 75 you's in her gibberish. HHHmmmm. Now why is that? Could it possibly be because she is supremely self-absorbed?

Let me condense this for you, squid.

Blah, blah, fuckity blah, I, I, I, me, me, me, blah, blah, blah, everything is your fault and I am just a poor victim so don't blame me for anything.

If you prefer that I don't send anymore please let me know.

Your response: I am exercising my option to decline future emails from you unless they pertain exclusively to kids and/or finances.

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 4:25 PM, October 11th (Wednesday)]

Have to agree with what others have said. Your ONLY response to this is something along the lines of...

'Other than issues regarding the children and you moving out of the house do not communicate with me any further. I understand that your last day in the house will be ****.'

She keeps writing me. This time it was a text. I have a feeling she's reading my posts. I know I accidentally left a post up on my pc and walked away. She told me she read it. I asked her not to look around SI and read my posts. I found out later that she copy and pasted that post and emailed it to herself.

I think she's up to something.

Here's the latest:

I am truly sorry for what I have done. I do take responsibility for my actions and the consequences even if you don't see it. I think we've both tried to make each other understand each other's perspective and we may never get there. But that's the reason for our letters. I read yours a few times to get it from different angles. I sensed the anger is more controlled. I'm happy for you. Keep at it. I apologize if my letters seemed manipulative or psychotic? I understand how it may come off as that. I know you think very lowly of me and I deserve that. I'm not trying to get anything out of it. Any comparison is really for me to learn from. I hope I never experience your pain and vice versa. Finally, I think NC is a good option. Thank you so much for everything.

I don't recall her ever using the term "NC" before. That's why I think she's been reading around here. Maybe trying to figure out an angle.

I simply replied, "We need to figure out how and when we're going to tell the kids".

Wow, even with all the insight she may have gained from reading here, she still thinks it's a matter of you not understanding her point of view and goes so far as to imply you wouldn't want to experience her pain as well. She also doesn't seem to get just how manipulative the last two sounded despite knowing they came off that way. Those two lines really invalidate any remorse she tried to play off in that letter. Your response to her was perfect.

I can't grasp that many WSs actually think the BS should care about understanding the WS point of view...we actually do understand that cheaters are cruel and selfish, there is nothing more to understand.