SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I like making decisions and sticking to them. There is a sense of closure and empowerment that comes with that.

Maybe, but in this case the decision you have made is to give all of your power to a person who has betrayed you, and the closure may be disastrous.

For a long time, I thought I could "nice" my way back into my marriage. That if I were deliberately conciliatory with respect to everything my ex wanted, she might think her boyfriend wasn't so wonderful and might seek reconciliation.

What I found instead is that she kept taking. It seemed odd to me, because she has never been a greedy monster and still isn't today.

But in order to justify her cheating to herself and to her family, she needed to turn me into a monster of sorts. And that made a big difference in her actions as we approached divorce.

Fortunately, I realized this before we had anything in writing. And then I got my lawyer to negotiate with her lawyer instead of trying to do things myself.

That is the only reason I kept our house. Otherwise, we would have had to sell it - at the absolute bottom of the housing bubble mess.

You can't "nice" your wife into anything. You can't get her to do anything right now, so you might as well focus on getting a settlement that works for you and your children.

As for her own personal needs... well, she made the decision to look out for herself and herself alone the moment she traded marriage for her adventures in that nefarious theme park we call Adulteryland.

Nobody in his right mind would suggest you make divorce any harder than it is. Nobody is going to suggest an acrimonious divorce as a strategy or simply for the sake of making things hard. But “amicable” is relative; in divorce “amicable” should mean you both approach this realistically and leave the table feeling like the negotiations ended fairly. To reach this goal you both need to be very clear on the process, how things are calculated and the goal of divorce.

Divorce is a mathematical enigma. Owning half of your assets right now with your wife and owing half your debts now with your wife will always feel better than owning half of your present assets and owing half of your present debts alone after a divorce.

Divorce is not an alternative relationship to marriage. It’s the termination of a marriage and the determination of the minimum interaction you two need to tend to joint interests. In your case the joint interest is the raising of your kids. Other things; the house, co-owned cars, investments, pensions, savings, debts… all those are dealt with in the divorce in such a way that you two wouldn’t need to meet again if it wasn’t for the co-parenting.

Get it? Get the finality? Get the enormity of what The Big D really is?

Now imagine for a moment you had a pain in your side. You could easily find on YouTube videos showing how to determine your appendix had burst. You could no doubt find very detailed instructions online on the procedure on how to remove your appendix. You can probably get more or less everything you need at the local pharmacy; latex gloves, scalpel, anesthetic…

Now…

Despite all this…

Would you do it? Or would you rather have a professional cut you up?

You could save a bunch of money and the hassle and discomfort of going to the hospital…

Just like you can save a bunch of money and the hassle and discomfort of doing the divorce properly…

PLEASE realize this: You and your wife won’t be “friends” after the divorce.

You and your wife won’t play house and sip coffees while the kids play in the yard.

You won’t come over on Sunday mornings to mow the lawn and maybe chat with the man wearing your old bathrobe.

I definitely hope you will be great co-parents. I definitely hope you can sit in the same aisle at school plays. I hope your family and her family can attend the kid’s birthdays, marriages and so on. I hope you and then ex-wife can have a civil conversation. BUT YOU WONT BE “FRIENDS”!

Still need convincing? You probably know other divorced people. How do they interact with their exes? Chances are minimal interaction.

So… Since this marriage is not your future (as is) then don’t base your future on this marriage!

GET. A. FAIR. DIVORCE!

That’s all.

Nobody is suggesting you get more than your share. But comments like not affording furniture, leaving the house and so on… No… Base your decisions of reality.

Do you know the true market value of your house? Do you know the true amount of your debts? How about the value of the cars? How about credit-card debt? How about pensions? How about savings? How about responsibilities regarding getting your/her name off legal papers? How about insurance? How about support? How about child support?

The list goes on… Compared to a divorce removing your own appendix is a doodle. And yet you insist on doing this yourself…

Right now I think your thoughts are all about disturbing your kids’ lives as little as possible.

Well… Divorce WILL disturb their lives. That’s unavoidable. But they will survive. What won’t survive is your ability to adjust to single life if you are holed up in a one room apartment eating noodles and trying to make ends meet.

There are all sorts of loose ends that need to be tied up. Things like what about credit-card debt incurred after you leave the house? What about your financial responsibilities? What about her responsibilities?

UNTILL and UNLESS those things are cleared up you stay in your house.

You keep a good chart of accounts for each and every dollar you spend on food, the house, and the kids.

You journal your interaction with the children.

The wife?

Well… I can appreciate a man that sticks to his words. Heck – if your WW stood by her vows we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But your ability to be FAIR right now is the KEY to your kid’s future well-being. So you pass all suggestions and calculations to someone that has the experience to deal with this. Namely your attorney.

How to interact with her? Well… remind her that the divorce is her request and not what you would idealy want. However you are dealing with the reality of what she demands. You are too emotionally attached to the marriage but realize that you don’t have the experience to ensure the divorce is FAIR. Therefore you are passing all the proposals and ideas to your attorney and following his advice in all to ensure FAIRNESS.

And then you ask her to stop touching you, messaging you and interacting with you as if things were all hunky-dory.

Thanks Bigger. That resonated

As always, Bigger has assessed your situation clearly, given you great advice and a game plan. No one said that this path would be easy, regardless of what you choose, but please make decisions in your best interests and the best interests of your children.

I am glad I have an attorney and plan to move forward. Still hard getting the thoughts out of my head of what she could be doing when I'm with the kids but I guess that goes away with time. I have never been single--always lived with roommates or her so that scares me. Nervous about making essentially two mortgage payments for the next several months but that's what family is for I suppose if I can't do it. Thanks for support people--I really need it.

Nervous about making essentially two mortgage payments for the next several months…

Sorry friend but you are still not getting it…

YOU are not making two mortgage payments for the next several months. YOUR HOUSEHOLD is making two mortgage payments for the next several months!

Marriage is a twofold covenant. It’s an emotional one with certain moral, social and personal commitments. This covenant is the one your wife broke and you have both decided is over. If this was all that marriage is then you two could walk away now and never meet again.

Then there is the BUISNESS covenant where you decided how your possessions, debts, assets, income etc. should be dealt with. Basically it boils down to that everything you or she earned or spent during the marriage is equally earned or spent. 90% of the divorce process is about how to end the business covenant.

But for NOW and until a judge agrees to some settlement then the cost of housing is should be mortgage 1 + mortgage 2 divided by 2. If you are paying 1000 for M1 and M2 is 1500 then you should be contributing 1000+1500=2500/2=1250 and your WW 1250, EVEN IF she’s living in the house with M1.

So she’s not working? Can’t bring in 1250? OK – so you sell the house. Or you pay more and her payment is deducted from any claim she might have at your pension, debt-free car, or you get more assets in the house once it’s sold, or she takes more of the joint debt… Whatever. This is exactly why you have an attorney.

But even then it’s a moot point.

It’s way too early for you to go BUY a house.

Whatever grounds or reasons you have for wanting to buy where you want to buy right now are false. Want to be close to kids? Well… will their mom afford the family house post divorce? Will she move to a cheaper location? Will this end up with you both having to move, only then you will be burdened with two mortgages? What if her future BF moves into the house the day after you move out? You will be paying him free rent.

IF you insist on moving out then get a temporary as-cheap-as-possible rental on a short-term basis.

My suggestion?

Well… I wouldn’t move out. I think she wants a divorce because she thinks it’s like riding unicorns and skipping on the beach. I think she is way off from realizing the finality and the consequences of divorce and unless and until she does so then you have to play it super-safe.

I would try an in-house separation but with a clear destination: You are getting out of infidelity.

So your communications are on the kids.

You have a clear schedule on who has the kids and for what days. This covers weekends and evenings so it’s clear – for example – that next Thursday is her day with the kids totally irrespective to how that fits with her schedule. Tell her (correctly) that this is for the kids benefit and will more correctly replicate their future once the divorce is formalized.

On your days without the kids YOU LEAVE the house as much as possible. Alone. Without the kids.

You work CONSTANTLY at making the divorce reality. Sit down with a calculator and figure out if either of you can afford the home. If not then insist it’s appraised and put on the market. Start the process of removing your name from her commitments and her name from your commitments. Like does she have a credit-card that you co-signed? Is your name on the loan for her car? She has to pay school fees? Not your issue.

BE FAIR! Remember that if you concede your share in the house to make it possible for WW to keep it “for the kids” then legally there is nothing you can do if she decides to sell 6 months from now and move to Alaska. Or have her new BF sell his debt-free house so he can move in and they have holidays in Europe while you eat noodles. Always keep in mind that there is a future after today.

Do an active 180. Detach from her as intensively as you can. She no longer cooks your dinners any more than you expect her to eat the food you make for the kids the days they are your charge. You live as separate lives as possible.

Ask her to move to another room. If she refuses then you move to another room.

Do NOT mope around. Remain active. Be as much away from her as possible.

Like I said earlier: This has nothing to do with being mean or vindictive. It’s all about reality. It’s about making the future clearer to her. This HAS TO BE TEMPORARY – a 30-90 day period max.

Moving out is wrong and goes against any legal advice I have ever read.

Listening to an ad on the radio this morning for men and divorce, they give tips and the very first tip is to NOT move out of your house, it is your house also.

If you want to read some free ebooks and advice, this law firm is specifically for men's rights.

http://cordellcordell.com/resources/

Just to be clear I am not buying anything. Just renting and I live in a high cost of living area and am not willing to sacrifice my lifestyle or the kids lifestyle for her. I am quite sure if she chooses to stay in the house she will either have to work or her parents will give her money. Either way I don't care. I'll get what's fair through the process. She has to buy me out or sell. To your point, that's why I have an attorney.

But this BS of her acting as though she cares is why I need out--I can't stand seeing her everyday. I get anxiety knowing I have to go home. Her stopping on the way home and asking me if I want ice cream. Having conversations like nothing ever happened. I can't handle it. Telling me I can sleep in the bed if I want. Like I would want to!!! I made the mistake of hugging her before I left for work this morning. Totally against my 180 I have been diligent about until that point.

What I am struggling with now (besides waking up early mornings and thinking about the A and having anxiety) is parenting time and what I want. She says she agrees to 50/50 but I can't figure out a schedule that makes sense yet. I want to have that done before I move out.

OH god I just dread going home from work! Anyone else with this and how do you motivate yourself to do 180 and make it through each day?

Anger usually motivates people to do something and hopefully that something is positive.

Anger should motivate you to do the 180.

She is still in the affair and contact with the OM, correct?

If so, and she is acting nice towards you, etc. She really doesn't get it. She has just no clue what reality is.

But you do know what reality is. Are there places you can go or people you can see so you don't have to go home right away.

Start thinking about some kind of groups or hobbies to join to meet new and different people.

Shocked, hang in there. This is probably the worst thing you have ever gone through emotionally. That was a nasty bomb your WW dropped on you. Guess what, though? You're still standing. Maybe you cried, begged, and embarassed yourself a little...but most guys here did, including me.

Once you get through the initial shock, get the focus off of her and back onto yourself. The 180 is really about re establishing your identity as an individual. You will get into the mindset of doing what you want to do, thinking about you and your boys, and not worrying about her. She is an adult and can manage her own affairs, if you pardon the expression. Your responsibility is to yourself and to your boys.

Take care of yourself physically. Show your sons what an alpha male looks like and get into shape. Do 25 burpees every time you are feeling morose. Eat right. Give yourself a daily fitness goal to meet. That will help you deal with a lot of the anxiety.

You lived without your WW for many years before you met. get to know yourself again and remember that you are actually a cool guy. 180.

I f-ing hate her. I think I am in the anger phase for sure. I saw one of her friends when we were all at services (which sucked being there together) and her friend smiled and pretended to be nice. I told her I can't look at her since she supported the cheater. #%%}**ing bitch! I cannot stand being at home and trying to be civil. It is SOOOOO hard. I feel as though I am being a dick when I do the 180. It's hard to pretend everything is great.

Shocked. That is for sure. Your thread prompted me to register and share some of my thoughts and hard earned "experience".

For me DD was Oct 21, 2011. At that time married 16 years with two kids. The type of family everyone looked at as a model. The first 6 months or so after I found out was the worst time in my life. My beautiful and loving wife was doing the exact opposite of what I married, her affair had completely consumed her. She was not making good decisions and had a single girlfriend "supporting" her very bad decisions. She even told me a few weeks after I found out that I "interrupted a relationship". So where am I going with this?

If your wife is in fantasy land, she is not herself right now, its too soon after the discovery. You need to understand that you are dealing with someone that is basically a drug addict. They will lie to you to get what they want. From the sounds of things thus far, you are believing her and trusting her in a way. Like she is no longer in this affair.

I remember the first days how it was so hard to even get out of bed. I lost 30 pounds. Was going through all that you are. Its real hard. Its cruel. I made some mistakes in my approach, but one thing I did right to save my marriage and my dignity was that I never moved out of my house.

Of course I had my bags packed on several occasions and really wanted to leave. I WANTED SO BAD TO RUN FROM THE PAIN OF IT ALL!!

But something within me stopped me from leaving. And it was the thought that I WILL NOT BE THE PERSON LEAVING! The house that I built, the family that I built. So I was in my car with my bags packed, ready to leave. Had that thought and went back into my home and demanded that she be the one that leaves. I told her that I would happily pack her shit and take her to an apartment or even her boyfriends house. I was not going to give up the only solid foundation I had left with my family and run from the pain that she inflicted on me. SHE was going to be the one has to suffer, not me. And if she wanted to continue to live under my roof, then there would be rules. Rule number 1. Stop letting other men into her pants. There were many other rules as well, but that was the main one.

The point I'm trying to make is this, and this might be some tough love brother. The "pats" that she gives you? Sounds like she feels sorry for you. You need to "man up" and not let her treat you this way. No woman you will ever meet in the future will respect you if you don't respect yourself.

Another thing. This total coward that she is having the affair with, you have to assume is basically telling her how to conduct her business. If her affair is active still, she is listening to this coward, getting advice from him. While she gives you pats. I don't know if he is single or married, it kind of doesn't matter. That relationship is statistically doomed.

Please, don't move out. I was where you are at. I didn't budge. It was a god awful experience, but it gave me great pride that I could endure it and come out alive without being the one that "left". In some small way it gave me pride at a time that I felt like dirt.

I feel as though I am being a dick when I do the 180.

The 180 is supposed to be for yourself. The hell with how it looks to her.

Try and adopt an attitude of total indifference to her. Remember, the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.

Being a betrayed spouse is like having someone you love throw a party to which you are not invited, racking up enormous bills for outrageous behavior and then you getting stuck with the bill. No advice, but you've been heard and I feel for you.

We are DONE. She has no remorse, no feelings for me and I am now at the same point. I am printing off the divorce papers my attorney sent me yesterday and I plan to hand them to her tonight before she goes to bed. She is finally getting what she wants and I will soon have my freedom . Freedom to have fun with my boys without her. Freedom to spend time with friends. Family. Freedom to do nothing if I want to. And freedom t meet women who do care and have integrity. Freedom to give all the love I am willing and capable of giving.

Here's to the start of freedom and recovery. I hope this process moves quickly.

Good decision Shocked. Hard no doubt, but right for you.

Stand by: a few more waves of emotion are coming, expect them. The worst is over though. Take care of yourself. See you over at D/S when you're ready.

Yeah, thanks MHCA. I will move over to that thread soon. I know more waves of emotion are coming but I've made it this far and I will keep going.

Also, come hang with the guys on the Betrayed men thread in the I can relate forum. Even if you just lurk there it's quite therapeutic.