SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TheLostOne2020,

The following comments/suggestions just reflect my take on your postings. Please take what is relevant and helpful to you, and ignore the rest. My comments are intended only to communicate and provide support in a respectful and supportive manner.

The situation is not that she is "too weak" to stop her affair. Rather it is, when questioned about her desire, she clearly indicates that she wants to be able to pursue her affair with OM and NOT focus her mind and heart solely on saving her marriage and protecting her family. If OM is an option, she will only be "half-heartedly" in your marriage. I do not think she could make a sufficient effort to justify reconciliation in that state of heart/mind. She does not believe that she can not maintain both her affair and her marriage, at least until SHE makes up her mind. She must see you as her Plan B. If her affair fizzles, you are what is left. You provide her cake/stability as her OM provides excitement/emotional and sexual fulfillment. She expects you to be there for her whenever she decides she wants to be with you for the time being (apparently, mostly for security and beta bucks). If she decides for you vs current OM, what prevents a repeat with another OM? I agree with other posters that you should make YOUR decision NOW to get out of infidelity. Since she is not 100% committed (I say she is NOT committed.) to the marriage, the only path available to you at this time to get out of infidelity is divorce. You can not control her decisions/actions, only your own. You should take away her power to keep you in limbo. You should insist that you are Plan A (actually the ONLY plan) and that destructive (to marriage), disrespectful (to you), immoral (to the marriage, family, community) dangerous (healthwise), and painful (to you/children) infidelity will NOT be tolerated. You should protect yourself and your children (emotionally, financially, and hygienically). You should not protect/provide an option to your WW to destroy your marriage and family for continuation of the affair, along with the resulting pain caused to you, for her purely selfish reasons. You should also withdraw any financial, emotional, and physical support from you to her (other than that required legally or for the benefit of the family as a whole).

You have posted that if you decide, you will let her know. I hope that you will formalize your decision now to get out of infidelity and tell her you are filing for divorce. Better, just hand her the divorce/separation/settlement (as appropriate in your state) papers. You should start the clock for the process. If you desire R, you can always stop the process if/when she has earned your gift of reconciliation.

IMHO, you would then have the best chance to move forward, whether R or D, and get to a situation which is the best available outcome for you and your children. She has to make her own decision about what she wants. Maybe her decision will be compatible with your decision, or not. That determination will be up to you.

If the outcome of this situation is divorce, it really means that you would be allowed to find "someone else" who will be a far better partner for the rest of your life. I know from experience that, although that "someone else" is not in your life now, she will eventually be there, and you will be infinitely happier with her than with the "one" you are with now. In the event of R, your WW must become that "someone else".

Sending hope, strength and support.

2020,

I came to the party late on this one, but I have to say you need to over listen to the people here. They are spot on, I have a question for you but I need to make a statement first that I have said a bunch of times here.

I feel that an affair that was found out and not disclosed, that has lasted 6 months or more, is an attempt at and possibly succeeding at another or alternate life. This has been going on for 2 years physical and did I read right? 6 years EA. Couple that with everything she has said about him changing and being a good man. I think she has succeeded in this but I need to ask you a question...am I correct in saying that you stated she was no longer having sex with you because she is saving herself for him when she gives herself over to him on her "visits"?

She does not believe that she can not maintain both her affair and her marriage, at least until SHE makes up her mind. She must see you as her Plan B.

Lost One,

Pass This just sent this to you. read it again please. You will never resolve this one way or the other until this above statement changes. until you convince her, which you have not done so far, that have two men in her life romantically is not an option, there is no incentive for her to give him up.

It took all my will power not to talk to her until she came to me to talk about therapy. I didn’t say much. She was saying the therapist suggested that we both do up a list and share them with each other. The therapist said that this was probably a result of the impacts of all the deaths that have occurred recently, but that there was probably some underlying issue that needed to be addressed. She said that the therapist thought that Marriage Counseling would be good either way we go – whether it’s to split or what not. She didn’t say anything about the douche bag. She asked if I had any questions – I said, well the obvious, what about the Douche bag. She said, obviously that would be number one on the list. I asked if she talked to him last night – she did, but to tell him that she couldn’t do this….Supposedly.

I said that I was second place and that I wasn’t going to talk to her any more about this. I told her I was going to send her something but I no longer want to talk. I sent her the below. I said I’m done talking about our relationship.

In any event, I just sent the following. Some stuff has been changed.

WW,

I love you and have for the majority of my life. Our marriage had its ups and downs, but no matter what issues we had, the way you chose to address them, by going to Douche bag has destroyed me. I cannot be in a relationship with someone who has done that and doesn’t seem to care how it affected me. You have made me feel like an absolutely inconsequential part of the equation – plan B. You have not attempted to help me nor shown that you consider me important. I’ve been treated as an inconvenience, a bother, not as a partner who desperately needs your help, support, and reassurances. Instead you’ve wanted me to help you with your feelings for Douche bag and to give you reassurances. In anger you have insulted me through the use of your very betrayal. Your actions are not the actions of someone who is remorseful, who values, and respects me. They are the actions of someone who views me as the backup, the ‘in case’.

I can tell you have feelings for this person. I think he’s a piece of shit, but obviously you don’t see him that way. In fact, I can tell you care about him enough to protect his feelings more than you care about protecting mine.

I am no longer asking you to stop being with him. If you were to stop, you’d only pine away for him more. So I’m letting you go. I cannot be in a three way relationship. I will not share the woman I love. So this is it. You can explore whatever you think you need and get from him. I would ask that you not bring him around the house. In turn I will begin the work on my own to mend my broken heart and find my way to happiness down the road again.

The truth is, I don’t want the YOU in front of me right now. The partner I need would be fighting desperately to repair the damage she has done to me and our relationship. Instead you are questioning whether you even want to fight. The partner I need would see me and only me as the only one who matters to her. It’s clear to me you are not that person. Your heart is elsewhere and I, in no way, want to force it where it no longer wants to be. I will never accept someone who is unsure that I am the man for them. Life is too short.

So I wish you well finding what you think you need to be happy. I intend to do the same. I need to fill my world with people who truly care about me as much as they do themselves. We probably shouldn’t waste either of our time pretending that’s your truth too. So at this point I think we should stop talking about our relationship and start talking about how we end things as amicably as possible. Do not talk to me about our relationship anymore. Only about the children and finances.

I’ve attached the separate under the same roof pdf. We should begin following it as soon as possible. There are some options with regard to refinancing and living arrangements.

We will tell the kids Saturday morning. I don’t want to tell them Friday night because I’m worried that they will have problems sleeping. We will tell them that mom and dad are divorcing because you have fallen in love with someone else. We shouldn’t go into any more detail than that, but I’m sure they will have questions.

I will send you additional materials regarding our separation soon.

Probably not the way to go, but it's where I'm at. I need to be strong in not speaking with her. Hopefully this makes it all easier.

I just told another mutual friend. For the record, her mother, grandmother, coworker mother figure, and one of her aunts died around the same period of time. The time when she reached out to the douche bag emotionally. I say this because I've seen a lot of people say something like 'tell her parents' or what have you. She doesn't have any.

There are still people I could tell, I suppose, but I'm drained. Today has been the hardest of my life. I feel a bit of relief though. I know that it will be hard, but I'm going to do my damnedest not to talk relationships with her.

It's just fucking hurting me. I'm going to focus on what I need to do to get through this. That means stuffing lingering feelings for her down in a hole. I need to just talk about finances and the kids, non relationship stuff - for my own sanity.

I also need to start rebuilding.

I'm debating on whether or not to tell my parents today. They've changed the past few years and I'm not particularly close with them. I think I will reach out to them tomorrow.

I'm spilling my guts to two friends... In the meantime she came back up with a little notebook that she took from therapy. I told her that I didn't want to talk to her. She said that I had to hear what the therapist said.

I just starred at her. The therapist, supposedly, said something to the effect that one of the things that my wife needs is reassurance that the deficits in our relationship will be worked on. That her and I need to come up with lists. Once we agree that we will work on those items then she should be comfortable giving up the douche bag. The way she said it though did not make me think that she was relaying the therapist's words honestly. Whatever the case, I said something saying that I predicted this yesterday and then I said "we are getting a divorce".

She actually had the temerity to say that 'we were one list away'. I said we are getting a divorce, please leave.

She did.

Although it is hard, you have done the right thing.

Detach as best as you can.. Not only does it give you space to think more clearly, you are now in control of your life.

And do not under any circumstances, go to any form of marriage counseling, what every persuasion is used. It will only be used to show that you had a hand in her decision to cheat.

The best revenge is to live the best life without her.

You are moving out of infidelity.

Lost One

I just starred at her. The therapist, supposedly, said something to the effect that one of the things that my wife needs is reassurance that the deficits in our relationship will be worked on. That her and I need to come up with lists. Once we agree that we will work on those items then she should be comfortable giving up the douche bag. The way she said it though did not make me think that she was relaying the therapist's words honestly. Whatever the case, I said something saying that I predicted this yesterday and then I said "we are getting a divorce".

She actually had the temerity to say that 'we were one list away'. I said we are getting a divorce, please leave.

There you go. The therapist has now put the burden on you to prove you are towing the line and until your wife is convinced she gets to keep her boyfriend. do not go near this therapy. If you do not check all the boxes she gets to start the affair again.

The fact that she is still pestering you about the therapy indicates that she may be starting to believe you and that she now is starting another way to be able to keep her boyfriend at least temporarily.

She is not going to budge until you get the divorce papers in her hand. Start closing the joint credit cards and opening new ones in your name only. and take half of whatever cash or liquid assets you have and open new accounts in your name and tell her you are doing it.

You are correct. You cannot make her move but you are under no obligation to make it pleasant for her while she still talks to him every night.

And STOP telling her you love her. She knows that and is banking on that to get her way

Although it is hard, you have done the right thing.

Detach as best as you can.. Not only does it give you space to think more clearly, you are now in control of your life.

And do not under any circumstances, go to any form of marriage counseling, what every persuasion is used. It will only be used to show that you had a hand in her decision to cheat.

The best revenge is to live the best life without her.

You are moving out of infidelity.

I'll be honest, I feel A LOT better that I'm out of limbo. I'm scared that I will back track or something. I just need to not talk to her. She's a room mate now.

No, marriage counseling is out.

There you go. The therapist has now put the burden on you to prove you are towing the line and until your wife is convinced she gets to keep her boyfriend. do not go near this therapy. If you do not check all the boxes she gets to start the affair again.

Right - I was kind of stunned, but I didn't show it. I'm not sure she's accurately reflecting the therapist's words.

The fact that she is still pestering you about the therapy indicates that she may be starting to believe you and that she now is starting another way to be able to keep her boyfriend at least temporarily.

She is not going to budge until you get the divorce papers in her hand. Start closing the joint credit cards and opening new ones in your name only. and take half of whatever cash or liquid assets you have and open new accounts in your name and tell her you are doing it.

I can't just do divorce papers - we have to be separated for a year. I am going to work on a separation agreement, with how everything is split, with custody, and all that. Then, if she agrees, I take it to my lawyer, he does his magic, we both sign and file.

I will be closing accounts and such.

You are correct. You cannot make her move but you are under no obligation to make it pleasant for her while she still talks to him every night.

I'm just looking to be a roommate.

And STOP telling her you love her. She knows that and is banking on that to get her way

If you are referring to what I sent her, that was a suggestion and I thought it was appropriate. I'm not going around telling her I love her.

I can't get the words out of my mouth at this point.

LostOne,

I believe you are doing the right thing. I read the message that you sent, and I think it was perfect. I know how painful it must have been to write it, but it is exactly the approach that you need to take to get yourself out of this unreal situation.

The therapist, supposedly, said something to the effect that one of the things that my wife needs is reassurance that the deficits in our relationship will be worked on. That her and I need to come up with lists. Once we agree that we will work on those items then she should be comfortable giving up the douche bag.

That is blatant manipulation. She wants you to please her, and if you work hard enough, she will dump douchebag and let you continue trying to please her???? Why doesn't she stop cheating to please you?

That is lunacy. She cheats, and you need to make her feel secure enough to stop cheating...I think I have heard it all now.

I told her that I didn't want to talk to her. She said that I had to hear what the therapist said.

So she told you that you had to listen after you said you did not want to talk? How come she did not listen when you said you did not want to talk?

Seriously, she is trying to control things and make you roll over and play dead. Do not do that. What kind of future can you have with someone who cheats for years, and then treats you like that?

Sorry, LostOne, I know this is horribly hard, but you are right to let her go.

She can go and do whatever makes her happy, and you can do what makes you happy. Why should you waste another second of your life trying to make her happy, when she has devoted so much of her time to that, and so little of it to making you happy?

You are the prize, not her.

Perhaps she thinks she can create a situation where two men will be competing for her, but all she is really doing is creating a situation where you dump her, and she has to rely on douchebag, who is 100% guaranteed to cheat on her and mooch money off her.

Let her have her tin-plated, unemployed prize, while you move on and find someone better. You certainly deserve that. And she deserves douchebag.

I think the letter you wrote was a pretty good one. It was heartfelt but it set your boundaries. Good job.

Now get serious. Print out that 180 list and tape it to your mirror. It needs to be the first thing you see in the morning.

Go down to Home Depot and get a new keyed lockset for your bedroom door and put it on. They are fairly inexpensive and easier to install than you think. Put that bitch on there and lock her out of your space.

Follow what I did. I went out and bought myself some really nice new clothes. That will help your self esteem. Keep working out and lifting weights hard. Eat good food, not junk. Drink lots of water. If you are having problems sleeping, go to the doctor and ask him for a sleep aide. You need to stay healthy.

I believe you are doing the right thing. I read the message that you sent, and I think it was perfect. I know how painful it must have been to write it, but it is exactly the approach that you need to take to get yourself out of this unreal situation.

Steven helped me. In more ways then one. I made it my own, but his input is there and was invaluable.

That is blatant manipulation. She wants you to please her, and if you work hard enough, she will dump douchebag and let you continue trying to please her???? Why doesn't she stop cheating to please you?

That is lunacy. She cheats, and you need to make her feel secure enough to stop cheating...I think I have heard it all now.

I'm honestly dumbfounded. Did the therapist - a person she just met today - actually suggest that? Or did my wife phrase what the therapist said so that it SOUNDED like that? I don't know.

That's exactly how it sounds - if you do a good enough job you'll be promoted to house husband again. Why do I have to drag myself across the land of pain in order for her to offer me the smallest bandaid?

I've said so much shit to her - especially the first two days. Sent her so many things. Showed her so much stuff - logical, reason, arguments, science, etc.

It's different for her though. That's what she'll tell you.

So she told you that you had to listen after you said you did not want to talk? How come she did not listen when you said you did not want to talk?

Yeah, she did. I was too drained at that point. I sat there and spoke minimally - what I said here. The events are kind of mixed in my head, come to think of it. Whatever. The deed is done. I can start crawling out of Hell as opposed to figuring out when I'm going to land.

Seriously, she is trying to control things and make you roll over and play dead. Do not do that. What kind of future can you have with someone who cheats for years, and then treats you like that?

Sorry, LostOne, I know this is horribly hard, but you are right to let her go.

It's unbelievably monstrous entitlement, isn't it? I just can't get over the fact that she didn't offer ME any reassurance. At all. It was all about her.

She can go and do whatever makes her happy, and you can do what makes you happy. Why should you waste another second of your life trying to make her happy, when she has devoted so much of her time to that, and so little of it to making you happy?

You are the prize, not her.

Thanks. I think she just left to go to the Casino. I'm mildly annoyed by that - I feel like I'd have been raving yesterday if that happened. I'm more upset that my daughter said that she thinks (my wife) went to the Casino. In fairness, my daughter said that my wife had said she was going out for a drink and my daughter assumed it was the casino. I'm clarifying because while I may not always be accurate and I may get things wrong, I'm honest. I'm as honest as I can be.

Perhaps she thinks she can create a situation where two men will be competing for her, but all she is really doing is creating a situation where you dump her, and she has to rely on douchebag, who is 100% guaranteed to cheat on her and mooch money off her.

All today I was wrestling with the idea that ALL OF THIS was her attempt to divorce me without actually gathering up the nerve to say it or whatever.

Let her have her tin-plated, unemployed prize, while you move on and find someone better. You certainly deserve that. And she deserves douchebag.

Maybe because I haven't seen him since High School, but I'm really not all that upset at him. Of course I'm not going to test myself and try to see him. If I'm wrong I'm gambling with my kids seeing me in jail. The reality is this is what he's always done. HE wasn't unfaithful to me. Yeah, he's a dirtbag with no morals. I would never do that shit.

But I'm oddly not mad it him. That might change.

I'm legit puzzled at the notion of dudes finding out their wives/girlfriends are cheating and then they go kill the dirt bag. I'd get it if you WALKED in on it, but aside from that?

I dunno, I might feel different tomorrow.

Lost One

So obviously she just went out to see OM. If she believes you are divorcing her and tells him she’s all his now she might get a surprise.

Do not believe a word she says if it appears she is changing her tune. At this point the only thing that will make her do that is if this guy doesn’t commit to her

Then all of a sudden she’ll agree to NC

Stay the course and get that separation agreement so you’re not responsible for any debt she runs up

So obviously she just went out to see OM. If she believes you are divorcing her and tells him she’s all his now she might get a surprise.

Maybe. I suspect that it will take some time.

Do not believe a word she says if it appears she is changing her tune. At this point the only thing that will make her do that is if this guy doesn’t commit to her

True, or if she catches him cheating.

Then all of a sudden she’ll agree to NC

Stay the course and get that separation agreement so you’re not responsible for any debt she runs up

Ugh, fuck, I hadn't thought of that.

Ugh, fuck, I hadn't thought of that.

You’re in the worst part of the shit storm. We’re here to think of this for you

Keep telling her you’re divorcing her . Tell it to her every time she utters a word to you

Armchair psychoanalysis:

For the record, her mother, grandmother, coworker mother figure, and one of her aunts died around the same period of time.

Okay, major grief, and a sudden feeling of being abandoned.

one of the things that my wife needs is reassurance that the deficits in our relationship will be worked on. That her and I need to come up with lists. Once we agree that we will work on those items then she should be comfortable giving up the douche bag.

She felt that her AP would not abandon her, and she needs reassurance that you will not abandon her. She wants a guarantee without having to give a guarantee.

The above are possible explanations for her behaviour, and in no way do I condone what she is/has doing/done.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is a spiral that needs to be broken, and the course you have embarked upon should break it. She needs to realize that she is taking and not giving. No quid pro quo here.

Hold your current course and do not waver. Watch what she does, not listen to what she says.

Start on your journey out of Infidelity, and keep going until you get out of it.

What would you do if:

- she gives up her AP?

- devotes herself entirely to you and your daughter

- shows remorse

Will you take her back, to continue with the D-train? The right answer will be the one that is right for you. Just think about it, so that you are not caught flat-footed.

A separation agreement also formalizes a separation date from which the 1-year commences.

You’ve got a long road ahead of you, but you’ll be okay. Know that although some of the advice given here can seem harsh and feel like there’s a hidden agenda at times, the reality is that people here have felt your pain and do have your best interests at heart. Keep leaning on that because in-house separation is brutal when you have an unrepentant cheater,. Managing your demeanour and not engaging her is critically important, so venting away here is by far the better way to go if you need to.

A separation agreement also formalizes a separation date from which the 1-year commences.

Lost One

And the above is a. big deal if you want her out of your life as well as her boyfriend

TheLostOne2020,

You handled a sh*tty situation appropriately. Your communication to your WW was all quite right.

Sending admiration and respect, along with hope, strength and support for both you and your daughter.

I note that great SI posters are squarely behind you. That should give you high validation for your actions and confidence that you will get through this and out of infidelity.

For your situation, this quote from Winston Churchill seems appropriate:

"If you're going through hell, keep going."

The therapist, supposedly, said something to the effect that one of the things that my wife needs is reassurance that the deficits in our relationship will be worked on.

You can’t work on anything with a 3rd party in the mix bud.

That her and I need to come up with lists. Once we agree that we will work on those items then she should be comfortable giving up the douche bag.

Uh, he should have never been allowed in you marriage in the first place

The way she said it though did not make me think that she was relaying the therapist's words honestly. Whatever the case, I said something saying that I predicted this yesterday and then I said "we are getting a divorce".

Maybe, maybe not some therapists are that looney.

It’s hard but get the separation in place ASAP. Make it your goal. Something to focus on.

It’s extremely unhealthy for you to be in this situation.