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Your last paragraph there is the "shit sandwich" of infidelity. You are left with two lousy, painful choices. Neither of which you actually want.

But know that whichever choice you make, you will be ok. If you choose to D, you will rise up and meet whatever challenges you need to because most do and that's life. If you read the posts from divorced people here, none have regretted it. All report a happier or at least a way more peaceful life. If you choose R, you don't have to stay hypervigilant for the rest of your marriage. If done correctly, the both of you will heal and work to build a new marriage that allows you to feel safer. Stories of successful reconciliation are here as well and they are not described as distrustful prisons.

As to you WH: you know, putting myself in his shoes I feel immediately overwhelmed. How on earth do you face all of this at the same time? And assuming he has any regrets or guilt, how do you face your wife with not only "I cheated" but there goes our whole life. It's got to be brutally embarrassing and again, so overwhelming that some part of him shuts down. Survival mode. Deal with the most pressing task in front of you and move ahead because the alternative (full accountability, facing your pain, making huge decisions about his career and marriage) might crush you. I had a moment (in his shoes) thinking "I might just run from it all."

Not out of lack of love but out of seeing no way, in a state of overwhelming turmoil, to fix anything.

It's good he's heading to IC rather than just running for the hills. He needs support to deal with himself. If what he is saying is true - a one night stand that was consensual - I have never seen the karma bus hit someone so fast. He'll need a professional.

Meanwhile, I hope that you are actively practicing self care. You have a trauma to process.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 4:46 PM, Monday, June 5th]

He keeps saying he will "address it all in IC." Which is only part of what he should be doing for you right now.

He needs to be completely. He needs to answer all of your questions. He needs to be completely transparent. He needs to move into another bedroom, and give you space. He needs to be accountable for his time when away from you. He needs to dig deep,and figure out why he cheated. He could Apologize to your parents for hurting you.

There's so much he can do,that doesn't involve IC.

It's said here that if the WS isn't moving mountains, to ensure a successful reconciliation, it will never happen. He's not doing that.

The hardest part is not knowing how anything will go and what to do in the uncertainty. I’m very black and white, and hate being in limbo and think it will be that way for a long time.

One of the difficulties in R is that it takes a long time to know if one's fWS has actually changed from betrayer to good partner. Uncertainty about the future is an inescapable element of R. Of course, it's also is an inescapable element of D.

You are left with two lousy, painful choices. Neither of which you actually want.

Not necessarily. One can also takes the optimist's position: Here's where I am. Here are my options. Of those options, I want that one most.

I have great difficulty imagining a successful R when the BS goes into it thinking it's less bad than any other option. It's only a little bit easier to imagine a good life if one enters D thinking it's less bad than any other option.

I know it's hard to be optimistic at this point, but I can't imagine healing without having or developing faith in oneself and in one's future - and that's a very important part of optimism. Optimism does have an element of 'the universe will make things work out,' but IMO an even larger element is 'because I know I can and will handle this - maybe not right now, but eventually.'

Thanks everyone.

The End: your words are very helpful and do frame things well. Neither decision (stay or go) is a happy, positive, optimistic choice. I dread staying and I dread leaving. There are merits to both as well as giant drawbacks. It feels, today at least, very much the options are put the kids first (stay and try) or put yourself first (go). I really feel stuck, and very mired in the fact that neither option is one I want to have to choose. And I of course don't truly know what he wants to choose. I think we both cautiously want to try, or are saying that in his case (I just say I don't know), because we want a family unit for our kids, are nervous about finances for two households, and it may feel wrong to just give up after so many years together. None are very strong reasons to stay. I also have no clue if I would be happier leaving, or if I'd just be constantly struggling, on my own. I think in the end it is just all unknown and carries potential regret. Regret for staying, regret for leaving. No winners in any of it.

I also completely understand how he has shut off/compartmentalized. I can easily see how entirely overwhelming all of this is for him. And I get that the legal and career concerns seem most pressing vs. whether your spouse stays with you or not. He's losing his career, potentially his freedom, and maybe his family. Cutting and running must feel totally like the easiest way out. Deal with the legal issues, see where the career opportunities may be if there are any after this, and start over, maybe remarry or find someone you love enough to be faithful to. Sure, see your kids less and have less money in the end, but at least you won't have to deal with the work of bettering yourself, making changes, and trying to make amends with your wife. And she will be out of sight, out of mind except when you have to deal with the kids, so you can ignore what you did to her and just shove it to all to the left. You can just chalk it all up to a bad decision and that you must have been unhappy if you cheated, so divorce is a good choice. This is why I have urged him to really dig deep and work through his decisions with IC to figure out why he did this and what he truly desires, not just what he thinks he should want.

Hellfire, thanks for your reply.

I totally agree with all you have said. He needs to do a lot. For himself and for me, and whether the decision on both sides and together is to try to make it work or to divorce. The only way forward to reconciliation or dissolution of the marriage is to begin with openness, honesty, and truth.

He continues to claim it was a one time bad decision and he is telling me the entire truth. I continue to check his phone every few days (emails, texts, photos, web searches) and he is totally open with that. It doesn't appear he is deleting anything and I haven't caught him doing anything he hasn't said he was doing (eg, meeting a friend for a drink).

He is sleeping in the guest room. And he has apologized to my parents. He respects them a lot and has spoken with each. His family only knows he is being investigated for something he did not do; he hasn't told them about cheating, though they will find out in time.

Otherwise, he is just continuing to say that IC will help and he will work hard in IC. I don't need to know what he discusses there as its personal, so will have to see what may come. Hopefully that person will help him figure out his life and how to approach reparations, if that is what he chooses to do. Otherwise, its just his words each day that he is sorry and loves me, without much more.

Sisoon, wise words from you. Thank you.

I am not a terribly optimistic person in general, especially now. I feel like I operate in rationale and reality, though it may border pessimism TBH. I need proof before belief, knowing not thinking. Uncertainty has always been hard because I am pragmatic. But I have no choice but to sit in it for now so I could work on being more accepting of that for certain.

I agree that approaching R is going to be difficult if it seems like the less worst choice. But that is how I view it now and I am unsure when or how that may change.

I've taken such a huge hit with all of this and feel really lost. Years ago I gave up my career to be the trailing spouse and support his career. I started a new career as a military spouse (volunteer of course) and that has been my identity for a long time. I've lost both my real career and now my pseudo career from his actions. I do some very minimal PT work which is low paying and more to have something to do. Its drastically different from what I used to do and I know I can't stay in the role because I need something better paid for a future, either as a single parent or to earn more to replenish what we are spending on legal fees. I've lost friends, my community, our once very active social life, and any faith I had in my partner and marriage. And of course I keep thinking if only I was thinner, younger, prettier, more fun, whatever....he wouldn't have cheated. My self esteem is in the dumps, my confidence is lost, and I feel totally untethered and adrift. It feels completely insurmountable to ever feel good about myself again, and that makes me feel like I don't have anything to be hopeful for or optimistic about.

Bigger, thank you so much for your insights. I appreciate you sharing them with me.

As for the allegation of the crime, there is just so much we do not know. I have asked him multiple times and every which way if there is any indication or second thought at all that this was not consensual and he continues to say absolutely not. He has also recounted the events to my parents and my friend and they reported it was exactly the same as he outlined it all for me. He came out of the restroom to find she stayed behind when the others left even though he had thought everyone was leaving, she came on to him, he was dumb in reciprocating, and they both made a terrible decision. While I did not want to know the details, I have asked the ones that matter: was she drunk, does he remember everything that was done and said, was the communication different before and after (no, yes, no). What he has described is completely consensual (order of events, foreplay and positions, jokes she allegedly made about not telling her husband, her saying she wanted to stay the night but thought it would look bad if people saw her leaving his room in the morning). Then their conversation the next day where she said she wanted to move on, keep working together, and there were too many people who could get hurt so they should just forget it and go back to how things used to be. Then there are the other aspects that don't align with someone who has been assaulted: she texting him inviting him to dinner the next day, checking in on random things (eg, how was one of our child's soccer games he had been to), coming over to our group x4 times when we ran into her at a restaurant a few weeks after the incident where she raved to me about how great he is to work with, and of course the fact that she didn't report it or get medical attention.

Then she decides to claim assault. We don't know why. One reason could be to avoid getting in trouble (conduct unbecoming, inappropriate relationship, drinking within a certain time range before using a government vehicle). She would be on the hook for all of that if somebody found out unless she claimed victim status, which now completely safeguards her even if she recants. Or she maybe confessed to her husband and he talked her into reporting it falsely to protect herself or as a condition on staying with her. Or maybe she found out she was late or pregnant and had to tell him and concoct the assault to explain it away. Or maybe she feels guilt and is telling herself she was assaulted as a way to live with the fact she cheated on her husband. No idea. But, it also doesn't entirely matter because its been done and she could just claim she felt coerced because of his position. Is that enough to charge and convict someone of sexual assault if there is no physical evidence? And despite friendly emails and texts and witnesses seeing her be social with us after the fact? I don't know. That is up to the court.

He is hopeful it wont make it to trial and if it does he is acquitted. And that the military won't want to bring a weak case lacking evidence because if they lose it will reflect poorly. But I have to remind him that there are plenty of people in jail for things they did not do and he could be one of them. And that the military may push this up to the court level and in the media to demonstrate they don't take allegations lightly and to make an example of the situation and because its a highly charged political environment. That even if he doesn't want to consider that outcome he must.

***posting as a member

I am wondering why you feel this way:

put the kids first (stay and try) or put yourself first (go)

I tend to see it the other way (eg put the kids first - go, put yourself first - stay). Having lived through an infidelity divorce as a child, sticking around was not in our best interest (in my experience before they split it was hellish - I was young). I think there is this perception that staying "for" the kids is better because statistics show that kids of parents who stay together end up doing better in life somehow or something. I would ask how many statistics are out there that are remotely accurate regarding kids whose parents stuck together post-infidelity as I'm guessing most couples who stay beyond infidelity don't talk about it much. Moreover, there is no way to compare if kids of divorced parents do "better" than kids of parents who stayed post-infidelity. I would posit that it is usually worse for the kids to sit through the awkward silences, tension, and weird behavior (at best), or out and out fighting or worse than for their parents to separate and work that stuff out (or not) out of earshot of their children. People often think that kids don't pick up on that stuff - but I don't think that is true. The alternative is to rugsweep, which is, well, ill-advised. IDK it seems so profoundly illogical to stay "for" the kids. As I have said before, if your house is one fire, is it still a safe place for your children, or do you get your children out of the burning house and then decide if it is worth trying to save?

I mean in your case do you really want your kids around all of his legal issues right now??? I mean it seems you have performed a feat I could not manage - to wholeheartedly believe him? You made up a huge list of whys that the AP might be lying. What is contained in a similar list for your WS? Would you really want your kids around that person if even a tiny bit of the icky allegations are true?

Weirdly I feel like I am usually the one to cut the WS a bit of slack on this site but your story has my gut (which is worthless in this instance I know - I don't know either of you) telling me something about your WS's story isn't right.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:48 PM, Monday, June 5th]

ThisIsSoLonely: thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I do agree that couples who stay together for the kids, if that is the sole reason, need to address their behaviors and communications in ways couples without kids would not. I certainly don’t intend on having my children in a home where the parents are arguing or speaking badly to or about one another. We don’t argue or speak about these issues in front of the kids and don’t speak ill of each other in front or to them. Our children are also very young so they are not absorbing as much as older kids may absorb … for now. If that changes then yes, my home life for them would need to change.

For now, I’m just not in a space to make a finite decision of staying or going. But I know my kids need a place to live, stability, and for now access to both parents. As I work PT and the kids are on my watch (eldest finishing school year and youngest gone with me 24/7), I also need assistance logistically from my spouse. For now we have discussed that we will stay under the same roof (separate bedrooms), and if needs change he can vacate and get a rental apartment. If we were to divorce I would move to a different state once custody agreements are ironed out.

I am choosing to believe him that he did not commit assault. The details, the communications I have seen, and the person I think he is doesn’t add up to a criminal rapist. He made a horrible mistake that has cost him a lot, but I don’t think he committed a crime.

However, I am choosing to NOT believe him fully right now that I have the full truth about his fidelity. I am not convinced there isn’t more to this affair or that there has been someone else. He doesn’t know how to convince me he is being truthful as much as I don’t know what to tell him to say or do to help me believe him.

The whole thing is terrible and icky, I totally agree. Believe me I would trade anything not to be in this situation, anything. He is an adulterer, that’s true. But I don’t think he is a rapist.

I am sorry you are in this situation.

I just wanted to chip in that the uncertainty is a reality for a while whether you stay or go. I am a control freak and like to have a settled and certain life and that was a big factor in staying after DDay1. I'm not comparing our situations as you obviously have this while other complication going on alongside it - but fear of the implications was definitely a motivator for me to stay. The thing that pushed me towards divorce was DDay2 - and I will say that despite the uncertainty and stress of that, it is probably less stressful than trying to stay at this point...I currently don't have a job past this summer so right now I am dealing with having no marriage, no house and no job and trying to sort them all out simultaneously - this is really not a comfortable position for me but I am at least in control of it. I am finding it LESS stressful than reconciliation as I couldn't control his (lack of) effort. I am blessed with supportive parents though so I know that even in the worst case we won't be out on the street or going without food.

Financially - is there a chance you might be better off divorcing now rather than later (if it comes to that) - if he is likely to be out of work?

It is totally up to you what you do of course, I just wanted to urge you not to let fear of the unknown rule you like I did. You will be fine (either way) in the end - what's keeping me going is focussing clearly on the long term goal instead of letting the day to day issues get me down.

I think you have made the best decision for you and your family right now. I applaud your ability to think clearly (and logically) right now.

I’m sorry but your H does know how to prove to you he’s not been unfaithful prior to this incident.

He can show you his phone (probably waaay too late for that now since he has probably deleted everything in his apps or social media it texts etc.)

There are other ways to prove fidelity without a polygraph test.

If your husband isn’t doing everything in his power right now to regain your trust and has indicated that he’s on the fence about reconciliation—either because he thinks its too daunting, is unsure of what he wants, or both—then save yourself the misery (and several years of your life) and file for divorce as soon as feasible.

Reconciliation is very difficult even with a totally remorseful spouse who is desperate to save the marriage… it’s impossible with one who is ambivalent in any way, which I know from experience.

This is not your first rodeo, so if he learned nothing about what he could or should be doing to regain your trust and help you heal after his first round of post-infidelity therapy, then what will be different now? He made worse choices with much more at stake than he did the first time around.

Debra, thanks for your message and solidarity. I am so sorry you are in the position of so much unknown as well. I know how scary it is to not have solid plans especially when going through so much personal turmoil. And I am glad you have a good support system should you need to deploy it. That really helps.

I know I will be stuck in uncertainty for a long time and also know I may go back and forth often between choosing the less worse choice of staying or leaving. I truly feel there is no good decision, it’s just loss and feelings of failure with both.

Staying makes "sense" logistically for now. Too much is commingled and with young kids and no family in the area and being fairly new to this state as it is, I don’t have a huge support net locally. Less so now that this scandal has happened and people are distancing themselves. My kids also need stability and being under the same roof is what I think they need. For now.

I am terrified of divorce and what comes next. It will take me time, years maybe, to ramp up a career to a level where I can financially support myself and kids. I may need my parents to co-sign on a rental unit. I may have to drain my savings to float us. I may not get any spousal support, and if he is found guilty there would be income for him so no child support. The kids and I would move across the country to a location where I know a few people and may have better career opportunities, and starting all over is daunting. I am fearful of being alone forever without anyone to help or care for me if I need it when I am older. I worry about screwing up my kids. I am afraid of the work and stress of having to do everything as a single parent. It’s a lot. I also selfishly don’t want some next GF or wife of his to get any time with my kids, and I don’t want to have him get them for a whole summer or every other holiday. That’s a major fear and reason I’d stay.

But I also think about what else I lose if we try to reconcile. No likely chance for s romantic life. At best a companionship? Being civil for the kids and fracturing our lives apart? Feeling stuck. Never feeling safe with him as a partner. Constantly looking over my shoulder and worrying and policing his phone and behaviors and words. Maybe less stress for the kids but could be worse stress for me.

There is only loss. I just don’t know which series of continued losses will be least painful for me and my kids.

Debra, forgot to mention the finances.

We’ve been married 8 years and the standard for military divorce is that a spouse gets a portion of pension at the 10 year mark. That doesn’t mean we could divorce now and could stipulate a percentage I would receive as spousal support/alimony. But waiting to the 10 year mark solidifies it more, especially if he winds up changing his mind on how amenable he may be to providing support.

There are a few scenarios that play out financially dependent on his legal situation.
He’d make (1) about 75% of his pay as pension; (2) about 60% of pay; or (3) 0%. Obviously if number three it is moot. But I would structure a post nup and/or divorce proceeding for a percentage of income as support vs, a dollar amount as it will likely be a better deal for me dependent on the outcome of his legal case and his future earning potential. I just don’t know how best to get that number and if he will ultimately agree in the end. I meet with a family attorney next week to walk through options.

1st wife: thanks for your reply.

I agree he could be doing or saying more. I wonder if he is TRULY emotionally blocked as he claims or if it’s a defender he is clinging to so he doesn’t have to begin "doing the work" with me. He also keeps saying he will work on things in IC so as he starts this week we will see what may come. I’m not really expecting much because he hasn’t done much other than tell me he is sorry, is remorseful and loves me each day, and he wrote me a letter a couple weeks ago.

I have and do go through his phone texts, emails, and browser history. Same with his laptop. He gives me full access and I also review the deleted folders. Sure he could be deleting things I don’t see but he’s not the most tech savvy TBH and I don’t know what I don’t know so … not sure what else to do in that vein.

Bluer, I agree.

I’m not convinced he truly wants to stay and make it work. I think that’s what he THINKS he should do and say and maybe not his actual desire. I’ve told him he has to get it sorted fast because he is only lying to himself and me, more, if he doesn’t really want to.

I don’t know if he has the depth or character to reform, repent, and do whatever work is needed. I think he feels exhausted by everything and is so focused on the career and legal aspects that he isn’t paying enough attention to the marriage. I get it, the legal stakes are huge, but it just feels like more short shrift for me.

Yesterday I felt like staying and trying was the best decision.

Today, I feel like I will never forgive him, never forget what he did, always be questioning his motives, always be looking over my shoulder, and always feel pain and hold a grudge for how he spectacularly destroyed everything.

If this was "just" him being unfaithful and he truly wanted to try then maybe we could make it. But it’s the legal issue and the career ending issue…and the fact that his decision has made me lose so much on top of the infidelity that is so crushing. My identity, my career, my community, friends, potential for the future, and stability. All gone. I’m facing having to scramble for higher paid work to pay for childcare (regardless of whether I stay or go as lawyer fees are high and future employment for him is uncertain), and seeing my children less. How can I ever trust him or believe him or feel safe with him or NOT feel aggrieved by all has decided to destroy? Can I live with that? Yesterday I thought I could. Today I don’t think I can.

I can tell within 24 hours of having the "I am D you" and "get out" conversation, my H was begging me to R and doing everything possible to change my mind.

He also made sure I knew he wanted to R and would do anything. And he was doing plenty on his own to prove his commitment.

While I heard for 6 months he wanted a D (planned to dump me for the OW) he had to overcome that elephant in the room to get me to even consider not D him immediately.

He has less than 2 weeks to stop me from moving forward with a D. I offered NO help or support or suggestions. He was in his own.

IMO cheaters use their Brains to figure how to cheat. Therefore they can use their brain power to figure out how to Reconcile.

There are some great books to help the totally clueless cheater "who has no idea what to do".

Also as I stated previously I hope he’s not clinging to you as his rock during this storm. He might be feeling that you are his support team until this blows over b/c right now you believe in him.

With you, he doesn’t have to flounder on his own. He’s got some support (some is better than none).

You are being very kind to him and accepting crumbs from him ( lack of effort). I hope he wakes up soon before it’s too late.

At a minimum he needs to be doing everything he can to connect with you. Without therapy too!

There is a great thread in the Divorce forum, called Fear Vs Reality. You should check it out.

Fold - although the details vary from marriage to marriage, rest assured that just about every single betrayed spouse felt the way you do. Particularly, that our entire lives had just been upended or destroyed. I'm not trying to be insensitive to the uniqueness of your situation, especially the military part and the community that you've lost, but every affair destroys the marriage. And the bio-sphere that grew around the marriage. And the future plans. And the kid's lives in one way or another. And the extended family relationships. All of it. For all of us. GONE.

They don't call it trauma for nothing.

You will bounce back and forth on how you feel and what to do about it for many months to come (should you stay that long). It's normal and horrible.

Some tips on managing the roller coaster:

Find little ways, every day, multiple times a day to calm and soothe your central nervous system. Deep breathing, meditation, running, journaling, kickboxing, long drives, it doesn't matter. In those moments, breathe. Talk to yourself like you'd talk to a hurt child. Mother you. It's ok. You are ok. Thank you central nervous system for alerting you to the danger. You see it. You're ok. Practice gratitude for THIS moment where you and your kids are ok. Breathe.

Second, and I don't know if this will help you but I found it useful, start writing out what you want your future to look like. Never mind the marriage part for now if that's too much. You have a white board in front of you. Your life can take any shape you choose. For example, you might write "financial independence." Now start fleshing out how to get there. "Update my resume, start a linkedin profile, research jobs related to my skill set, take a class..." You get the idea. You're just writing now. Spitballing. Laying the framework for future you.

This could takes weeks to complete depending on what you come up with but the idea is to go deep into the details. This is you mapping out your future. This is you taking control of the only thing you can control: you. Instead of looking into the future with only grey uncertainty and fear, you can start seeing a clear picture of what could be. This will help you feel more in control and centered. Bonus: you have the action plan for yourself.

You will of course continue to worry and wonder about your marriage. That's ok. But calming yourself and focusing on YOU is a break from that torment. I promise you, the stronger you get, the less this will hurt. Mother yourself. Plan your dreams.

1stWife: thanks for sharing your story. I am host to hear that you and your husband were able to fully reconcile. It sounds like he really sat up and looked around when you gave him an ultimatum and that he has changed a lot. I wish you only continued success in bettering your relationship!

I do feel that I have been pretty neutral with him. Of course I’ve had choice words over the last few weeks but I’m in such personal turmoil that I’m not yelling at him, calling him names, or being nasty. Mostly because we’re just doing the two ships in the night thing where we’re not talking much other than coordinating logistics and a once a week check in after the kids are in bed. He’s VERY lucky I have held my tongue as much as I have as he certainly doesn’t deserve it.

At the same time, I’m def not a shoulder to lean on. I barely want to make eye contact with him and am very direct when we have to talk. He’s mostly keeping to himself when at the home or managing the kids. He has seen a couple friends but is staying low key which makes sense. He has support but isn’t socializing. Between that and starting IC I’m sure he has having his needs met for empathy though I don’t care much. I am a support in the indirect ways: keeping kids alive, household running, etc. And the fact that he’s not coming back to an empty house each evening.

I know there are plenty of books out there that are aimed for the cheater. I don’t think he’s bought any. And then I think, it’s something I have to do also? Hold his stupid hand to go buy a book to help himself figure out how to help me? Maybe? For now I don’t feel like doing him any favors.

He wrote me another card yesterday. More of the same. He is sorry, he knows he needs to work on himself, he wants to try to rebuild our marriage. It just still seems to fall short, betray, and it just feels disingenuine to me. But I guess it’s an attempt at trying to better communicate.