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Low impulse control sex is alot more forgivable than contempt. Had it not been for the heater incident and a 2 yr Lta your wife might be forgiven as low IQ a little manipulative and somewhat desperate.

I think divorce is the right call for you ; just focus on your children and your future, dont ask her any more questions because that keeps the focus back on her and her manipulative behavior

I would want to know the meaning behind the tattoo

Who were your wife's friends at the time of the tattoo? Who advised her and encouraged her?

Your wife is desperate to find anything or anyone to share the blame for her adultery.

Among other things, that thinking (failure to accept 100% responsibility for her decisions/behavior) makes her untrustworthy.

Give your wife some homework.

Maybe a detailed timeline (thoughts, conversations, as well as activities) starting back to the tattoo would give her something to occupy herself with (instead of texting you).

Once more your wife doesn't understand that she 100% brought all this on herself - including the blow back from the phone conversation.

The threat to her marriage isn't the OBS - it's her lying (including withholding information).

IMO, although breaking NC is serious it's also pretty common - covering it up afterward for days (while telling you she'll do anything ...) is more serious evidence that she is not currently trustworthy.

Give your wife some homework.

If you want to D, no need for homework. Hard 180 and file for D.

I think that we (including myself) are good at doing all kind of speculations. Tattoo ? 2 years or more? One A or more?

If AH wants to know the truth, he has a lot of leverage, he can ask for a timeline polygraph etc....

But given the fact that he wants to D, maybe this is not really necessary.

Was it Colonel Preacher, coming back from Gibraltar, who did the tattoo in the study room with the candlestick? 🤔 🤔 🤔.

Or Miss Jenny White, with the wrench in the boiler room?

The plot thickens...

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 8:47 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

Tell her that all emails and texts will be ignored and immediately deleted unless they deal with the youngest kid, or the divorce.

Ghost her as much as possible!!!

The less interaction you have with her the better it will be for you and your healing!

Hope you are having a great time with your parents and child!

Just throwing it out there but it sounds like your WW started having some kind of midlife crisis five or six years ago. The tat was another way, among many, for her to reclaim her youth. I wouldn't read too much meaning into it. Whatever meaning it has for her is going to be batshit nonsense to anyone else.

Your wife doesn't get it.

She proclaims she's giving her life back to Jesus. As followers of Christ, he wants us to confess our sins to him (1st John 1:9) and if we do he will forgive us.

By confessing to him we are acknowledging our guilt to him. She is NOT doing this at all. She is putting it off on the devil and now is proclaiming the OBS is out to get her.

Now she's saying you should have a hall pass to mess around with another woman. We know why she's offering this, but did this woman, who is now saying Jesus is back in control of her life, ever stopped to think what Jesus would say about this hall pass??

She is nothing more than a manipulator and will even use Christ in her games if it helps her to get her selfish desires.

AH,

For a laugh, youtube “Tattoo Sebastian Maniscalco”

AH

I believe the 3 year mark, including the tattoo, refers to the date when she left the marriage, not by cheating but being selfish and available, in her mind. It doesn’t mean that a ONS or inappropriate behavior started to happen, as a landmark for the "life she deserved” an started behaving like a single person.

In regards of her last Call (at least the one you know), I think she is being partially honest about it, omitting but not lying, as what was discussed in the call is factual:

• She called.

• He said that finally she called him. It means NC before that call

• She didn’t said she loved him

• She didn’t ask to be back with him

• She questioned him about Jeny, and don’t know if she mentioned the other affairs.

She broke the alleged NC and this is the fact it self that broke your DD trust as she was trying to help her!. Also, she called to break up for good!! so when she was telling you taht she was so sorry in your truck she hadnt broke up wih OM for good yet?

She broke NC, and OM was happilly seh brike NC because the last broke up was with love and pormisses of everlasting love...

The thing is that even she states it was clousure call, it was to confront OM about his affairs. This was the moment when she realized that her “soul mate” was a POS and all mementos and fondling recalls started to vanish… She made the call, it means that at least at that moment, after the talk in your truck, after reading your email, all she thought about is confronting OM!!! It speaks volumes of were her priorities were at that moment.

She is still hiding many things, but I believe are related to events that already happened and she cannot change (last call with OM, sex practices, gifts, people related to OM, business she won recommended by OM, etc). Of course I may be wrong and she is having a makeup call with OM as you read this.

Cheaters are proven liars! Watch what she does, not what she says!

IMO she is feeling very ashamed and just wants to forget about the whole thing, as OM was a big part of her life, not just romance but proffesionally. It may explain why she is trying to erase everything from this part of her life!!! Unfortunately, she will learn that even if you were not getting D, her affair, all that was said and done, won’t go away. I think she believes that not divorcing you, even when her life is tumbling down, all she has done is not that bad infront of others and infront her image in the mirror each morning.

Telling your daughter that maybe the OBS altered the recording?

Your WW is not R material. She's still claiming victim-hood after lying to you and contacting the OM again. She's desperately trying to spin the truth toward her being innocent and simultaneously weaponizing the church members against you. Not good at all.

My father suggested I talk her and let her say all the hat she wants otherwise she is not gonna stop bugging me.

This concerns me. This is like allowing the child to have a temper tantrum and then rewarding the behavior by giving the child what they want.

If you AH don’t want to talk or discuss anything or specific things with her you should not feel obligated UNLESS it concerns your children.

Giving in to her is not in your best interest right now.

With all due respect AH, your father is probably not versed in infidelity like the people on this board. Although he may want whats in your best interest, he has not been thru what the masses here have witness and experienced. I disagree with him. I don't think you need to talk to the WW to let her clear her mind.

More info, on the tattoo or otherwise if you are planning on D is a worthless effort that may haunt you. If you are planning to D, stay strictly NC. You don't want mind movies, or to wonder if she's has other affairs going back 3-4 yrs. Leave that behind so that you can heal. Remember, to heal yourself first. There is no point getting more details if you're not going to R.

Your WW trying to blame the OBS and telling your daughter that she might have altered the recording is another form of blame shifting. She has had all these chances to own up, but rather than being an adult, she's behaving like a typical WW. Not good signs to consider for R at the moment.

I can relate to the tattoo issue.

My WW got a fairly large, very visible tattoo commemorating the passing of her father to cancer. She also started her PA and EA’s around this time. The tattoo is a constant reminder for me. It was 3 weeks or so after that she slept with the OM.

However, it is only one of many visual and audible triggers that I have. When my WW scolds our son, and says things about accountability, responsibility, etc. to him, I cringe a little on the inside. Our son is a great kid. He’s going through puberty, and is totally awkward, so I understand how he is. I mean, I was 14 once!

From what you describe, I see a woman that has been woken up with a bucket of ice cold water to the face. She is scrambling to do, say, try, anything to get back to pre-dday. I imagine that this period of time is very tough for the WS....tough shit!! She made all these choices, she is responsible for this mess. You have choices of your own too!

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Your WW wants a time machine and I'm sure you do too. We all do. None of us are going to get it, unfortunately, so the only way is forward.

I don't know, AH. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are still considering R with someone that is only paying you lip service.

Squid, No I don’t want to R, I want Divorce and wanted it to over with fast, I bad at explaining my thoughts and feelings in writing, let me try one more time, I was content the life I had despite it wasn't perfect. I thought I had it under control till I found out my wife was cheating and read some of her messages and how she was in love with the POSOM, I felt humiliated and emasculated. My pride was shattered I just wanted to disappear, I did the 180 and exposed the A before I read about that here because that was the only way I could react by default. I just didn't want to deal with her and still can't after more than a month. That's why I couldn't face her or ask her the questions some of you want me to ask. So I think you feel my hesitation maybe because I don't want to R not because it is not possible but because I don't have what it takes to do reconcile.

Who were your wife's friends at the time of the tattoo? Who advised her and encouraged her?

Robert, I'm glad you asked this, maybe I was too arrogant to pay attention to the signs. Thinking about it after I read your question there are a couple of friends that could probably answer all my questions. She basically has 5 friends, 2 of them we've known for years let's call them by the first letter of their names M and R. M and R have known my wife since they were taking college classes together and they were close to each other, suddenly M disappeared last few years, maybe there is a reason,she probably didn't like my wife new lifestyle and distanced herself. I never knew why their relationship stopped. R is still in contact but not very close like before she isn't in her Gym group and GNOs. The bad influence friends are S and E , S was closer to her in the last 5 years and I think influenced her lifestyle changes, E I never got to really meet her in person just heard about her. If I had to guess S knows about my wife's affair and if she had any others S knows. They both were with her during the tattoo. Last friend is actually a work colleague D. D and my wife work closely and knows me and my family. She's been in my house many time. I even installed a complete HVAC system in her house and didn't charge her a penny in labor. B knew about the A for sure and encouraged it while smiling to my face every time she sees me. So I'm thinking M and S can answer many questions and maybe R too.

My wife statement about OBS altering the recording was told to me it was for my daughter. What happened is after I infamy daughter about the recording she went carat her mom calling her names then asking her to never talk to her anymore. So my wife has been trying to get in touch with her to no avail so she is sending her messages apologizing and explaining things that’s when she told her that the recording didn’t have anything bad just her breaking up with her boyfriend for good. And if there was anything else that could be some alterations by OBS

Good to see, for better or for worse, your mind is set. This will make it easier to move forward.

Remember to choose your divorce attorney well. It may be the most important decision you can make right now.

I don't want to R not because it is not possible but because I don't have what it takes to do reconcile.

AH, I think you should drop this kind of thinking from your approach here. It's not about having "what it takes." It's not like people who reconcile are special saints. There's nothing wrong with reconciling, but there's nothing wrong with divorcing either.

And look, a LOT has to go right for reconciliation truly to work. Most of what has to go right puts the onus on the wayward spouse, not the betrayed. We do read here about kind, introspective waywards who have managed to step outside themselves and really heal the marriage. It does happen. But frankly, it doesn't seem to happen often enough.

So I would stop putting this pressure on myself if I were in your shoes. What you have is "what it takes" to be successful in life. Period. You don't need to put any more burden on yourself than that.

You did nothing here. She did everything. And she continues to do it. You can feel bad for her that she put herself in this position. That's empathy. Fine. But you're not required to take the mantle of her sin as a scapegoat.

The silly bromide that gets thrown around here far too casually is 100 percent of the cheating is on her, but that the marriage problems are shared 50/50. In my opinion, most of the time that turns out not to be true on closer examination. Most of the time it turns out the wayward spouse has been intellectually and emotionally lazy and toxic for some period of time prior to the betrayal, often for years before the betrayal. The faithful spouse has been struggling along in a deteriorating situation.

The wayward spouse often began intentionally sabotaging what was a good marriage before they decided to kill it off with adultery.

And that certainly is the case with your situation.

Why do they do it? I don't think we need to spend a great deal of time trying to figure that out. Because they are selfish people. They wanted it, they sought it, they found an opportunity and took it, they liked it, and they thought they could manage it without being caught. It's really not a lot more complicated than that.

In a divorce, you step away from the primary source of your pain, the actual wayward spouse who did this to you. It's often said that in reconciliation, you have to be willing to belly up and eat a shit sandwich.

But what if your spouse IS the shit sandwich?

You can start healing much faster by simply choosing NOT to shackle yourself to pain, by choosing to stop enabling or propping up a toxic crazymaker, and we see it ALL THE TIME on SI and other places. Those who divorce and move on quickly seem to heal much faster.

Now look, I'm someone who lingered in limbo for nearly four years before telling my WW I was done. That just happened within the past two weeks, so I can't tell you how I'll feel a year from now. But I can report to you that I feel better and lighter and more clear-headed the past two weeks than I've felt in nearly four years.

Is my wife a sociopath? Is she -- to use the term recently thrown around by those who seem to think people like me like to pile on WW's -- a witch? Decidedly no. She's confounding and her actions have been confounding and painful and heartbreaking. But it's not my job to fix her.

In the rare circumstance that a wayward spouse "gets it" -- and has NOT started to do more toxic damage with blameshifting, trickle truth, rationalizations, breaking NC and calling their boyfriend, trying to manipulate with tissue-thin appeals to Jesus and the like -- you can carefully consider reconciliation.

But it's clear that reconciliation is a huge gamble.

People don't like to talk about the fact that divorce just isn't as big of a gamble. It just isn't. You're know what you're getting -- and part of what you're getting is no longer having to deal with a personality, a person, that willfully betrayed you and hurt you. You deal with them a little bit, but most of your days you can be separate from them.

You're on the right path, AH. Stay on it and jettison the unnecessary guilt that says you're somehow lesser than because you don't want to stick around for the continuing shitshow of the reality TV show/ car wreck /dumpster fire that your wife has created for herself.

Last friend is actually a work colleague D. D and my wife work closely and knows me and my family. She's been in my house many time. I even installed a complete HVAC system in her house and didn't charge her a penny in labor. B knew about the A for sure and encouraged it while smiling to my face every time she sees me. So I'm thinking M and S can answer many questions and maybe R too.

AHGuy.. I assume D is B above?

So, back to B.. how do you know that she knew? How do you know B encouraged her? Did you wife admit to that or someone else? That seems really unwise of her, to admit she's been spreading this information around.

What will you say if you see B again? Ignore her or confront her about encouraging the affair? I'm not being vengeful or vindictive at all, here, but friends like that need to get the message that their advice and friendship has been toxic and damaging. My own ex ran with a "bad crowd" that were sleeping with everyone and encouraged her to do the same thing. I had a whole list of people I never want to talk to for the rest of my life as a result.