SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been, regularly. There have been no incoming or outgoing calls on the number in question since she went NC.

The first rule of thumb with cheaters: DON'T USE the same method of contact that got you caught the FIRST time and is now being monitored. She'd be a complete IDIOT to use any a method of contact that she knows you have access to and/or are monitoring.

She likely contacted him to find out what you told his wife and more than likely to collaborate their stories so the affair 'facts' are the same from both parties. This way, no new truths are exposed.

And lastly, she likely called him to apologize for your behavior in blowing up his world.

Just because you can't find evidence on the phone bill doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are a MILLION ways for people to contact each other without resorting to a phone call, text, or FB Messenger.

Exposure is an effective method for ending the warm fuzzy fantasy feelings around the affair and the affair partner. Also, the OBS can let you know if she discovers continued contact. Often, the AP is so busy trying to save his marriage, he doesn’t have time/energy to continue the contact.

I applaud your decision to inform the OBS. It was a difficult act of kindness that now allows an innocent person to make decisions about their own life.

I get the fear. Don’t let fear lower your expectations going forward.

I have not been following this closely but if she is "still acting strange" you need to be watching, but don't let her know you are suspicious.

My H was not what you would call tech savvy, especially in 2006. I can't even express how shocked I was to find that he, and the even less tech-savvy OW had gotten secret Tracfones to use so they would not be found out on regular phones, or traced through phone bills. When there is a will, there is a way and they will think they have outsmarted you.

The first rule of thumb with cheaters: DON'T USE the same method of contact that got you caught the FIRST time and is now being monitored.

She actually told me what was going on. I used phone bills to confirm timelines that I got from her but have never mentioned same to her. So, while "no phone calls or text" on this account can't be a black & white answer, it's a decent indicator.

She likely contacted him to find out what you told his wife and more than likely to collaborate their stories so the affair 'facts' are the same from both parties. This way, no new truths are exposed.

And lastly, she likely called him to apologize for your behavior in blowing up his world

The first I'd doubt. There had been NC since April (supervised by me) until he followed her on an Instagram account she had started - She closed the account and immediately told me about it. When I tallked to OBS I told her stuff he hadn't admitted to and/or lied about. Also checked data usage during the period she was gone walking, and there was none. She was just walking as far as I can tell (A pretty regular thing for both of us when stressed).

The second - Yeah. I still don't think they have been in touch over the last day (just worrying about it). BUT, I'm pretty sure that she's dealing with how bad she feels that she's made his life "so bad" or somesuch. Screw that - she put us here and now she's worried about how he's taking it? Whatever. I start wondering if I should have told the OBS and then get angry at myself for worrying too little ABOUT ME.

I timed this to happen before our MC today, and it will be an interesting session. I'm sure our therapist will wish she called in sick.

The thing that is driving me nuts is my WS is not telling me what's going on inside her - it's like she's absent. Before we went to bed she did tell me that she understood why I did what I did and the OBS DID have a right to know. That's as far as it went, but it's a start.

This morning - she's a zombie again. Hopefully, I can begin to figure out what's going on during therapy. In the meantime, I'm flipping back between fight & flight every 30 seconds. 6:55a and I'm already exhausted. This sucks.

It really only matters what happens in your specific situation, but I've read so many stories with married APs where the male AP reacts to a DDay by reinvesting in his marriage and dropping the OW like a hot potato, whereas the female AP may have been more emotionally attached. I think exposure was good all around for the BW, who deserves to know she's married to a liar and a cheater, and for you, because you've been stuck in limbo while waiting for the affair bubble to pop.

I hope your wife can be the partner you deserve, and that you'll have the clarity to know if this just isn't possible. None of us got married so we could have a spouse who is pining for someone else.

Well done, Harry!

As for your WW's reactions, she just got hit with a massive dose of reality and is likely feeling extremely exposed and vulnerable. My FWW had a similar reaction when I showed her the four page letter that I'd sent to the OBS. This was after I'd already exchanged a few emails with the OBS. It took my FWW a while to process the information as well.

Remember that fear profits a man nothing. Stay strong, brother.

swmnbc:

I have to imagine that knowing that her AP's wife knows will make the ending feel more final to her, and she'll have to deal with her embarrassment rather than clinging to the "good" memories.

Maybe this is what's going on. I hope so. I only wish I knew what was going on in her head.

Remember how they used to drop pianos on people in those Looney Toons cartoons? Right now I'd pull the damn rope and drop it on myself if it would help with the stress of waiting. Perhaps I will play with some ACME dynamite or something...sigh.

(Anyway, thanks for listening - I'm just babbling at this point)

ending the warm fuzzy fantasy feelings around the affair and the affair partner

I hope so! I'm still amazed she has those. Makes me angry.

swmnbc

but I've read so many stories with married APs where the male AP reacts to a DDay by reinvesting in his marriage and dropping the OW like a hot potato, whereas the female AP may have been more emotionally attached.

Totally this. Living it right now. It's infuriating and makes me wonder how long it'll go on and if I should choose to hang in there. The tension between not wanting to give up on 24 years of marriage and having to deal with her "pining" is excruciating.

While I THINK it is happening less, I can't really be sure. Wish there was a SurveyMonkey questionnaire ala "On a scale of 1-10, how much are you still in love with the AP?". She could just take it every day and I'd have a scoreboard. It's really hard trying to figure out where she is on this as the conversations so difficult.

I guess I "want to be sure" that doing so is the right thing since there will undoubtedly be a lot of pain.

There is a lot of pain no matter WHAT you decide. Don't let your desire to avoid pain have anything to do with your decision. You need to think beyond that.

Love, value and respect yourself. These are things that your WW is not doing. Is that really good enough for you? Is that what you are really worth??

((((HarryChicago))))

ending the warm fuzzy fantasy feelings around the affair and the affair partner

I hope so! I'm still amazed she has those. Makes me angry.

If she still has the warm fuzzies then she is not truly NC. Full NC (to me) means in the head as well.

Are you not in pain? Because I am in pain just reading this from you. It reminds me so much of my WH's pining. (btw, we are not R.)

I also wonder how useful MC is for you two if she still has these feelings.

((((HarryChicago))))

You mention being afraid.

It's great that you recognize that. My experience, and pretty much the normal experience, is to feel fear, anger, grief, and shame about being a BS.

Keep in mind, though, that you can think while you feel, and you can act in your own best interests while you feel.

IMO, it's important, for example, to ask the questions that you're most afraid to ask, because a BS needs to know the worst. Again, that's JMO (though I hold it pretty strongly.

So far you've doe well. My obs knew before I did, and I still harbor a little anger towards him for not telling me and giving me a 10 day start on healing. I can imagine how scary it is to tell.

So it sounds like you know you can act rationally even when you're having strong feelings. Keep that up.

Living it right now. It's infuriating and makes me wonder how long it'll go on and if I should choose to hang in there. The tension between not wanting to give up on 24 years of marriage and having to deal with her "pining" is excruciating.

I think that anger is a good thing. It will make sure that you don't accept less than you deserve. I told my husband I had no intention of being married to somebody else's boyfriend.

Harry You need some distance from this whole ordeal. You are too close it and your W. You need to detach. Are you in IC for yourself ?

JHMO. MC isn't going to make much progress right now. You both are too wounded (for different reasons) to work on the M. Drop the MC and start IC for yourself. Your W also needs IC. She is lost in the fantasy and needs to find her reality again. As long as she keeps it mentally going you have no chance for successful R.

Your W seems conflicted about where her emotionally loyalties lie. She needs to sort that out on her own. Yeah it is scary, but also not knowing doesn't seem to sit well with you either.

Based on my experience very few things can shock a WS that is infatuated with AP out of their fantasy bubble. The realization that the BS has given up on the M is a key. I am not saying file for D, but detaching beginning to live your own life is two fold. It helps you move towards recovery and it shows the WS that your exploring a life without them. A really blunt action is talking to an attorney. What is the harm in finding out what that looks like ?

I know you want to R in the worst way. I get it. I have R'd myself. R was the "right call," for me, but it isn't for everyone.

You need to figure out what is "right" for you. Maybe it is R and maybe it is a D. No wrong paths there.

You seem very logical and it would make logical sense to explore any and all options, right ? Talking to an attorney doesn't mean you are Ding her. It just means you need to explore what that would mean for you.

If she notices, fine. If she doesn't or doesn't care then I think you move close to the truth you seek.

You are in the forest right now. You need to take a step back. So you can objectively see both forest and the individual trees. IC is the best thing to do that. MC is just going to keep you in the forest.

From the sounds of it you are trying to R for both of you. R doesn't work unless the WS finds remorse. Your W really needs to see the A in all it's ugly glory before she will be able to give you what you need to find grace.

What what you've been doing hasn't been working you need to mix it up. At first you did not want to tell OBS, but do you regret doing that now ? My take is you do not. Please hear me. You need to be selfish right now. You will find what you seek there.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 9:48 AM, July 27th (Friday)]

ZenMum:

Full NC (to me) means in the head as well.

Are you not in pain? Because I am in pain just reading this from you. It reminds me so much of my WH's pining.

I don't have any expectation that the AP won't pop into her head now and then. I think that's natural (Try not to think of an elephant...and you think of an elephant, etc.)

I'd define breaking NC as the act of communicating proactively or responding to the AP.

Pain? Yes. Tons of it. I could power China with it.

We are both in IC. IC and MC have been really useful for me. I want to continue. I don't think I could have reached out to the OBS if it weren't for my IC, in fact. My IC is a fricking machine. She's awesome.

I think MC has been good for my WS, the IC less so. She's definitely "stuck" somewhere. I don't know where, though.

numb & dumb:

Whoops. responded in wrong message. The answer to your question is above.

I do want R, she does too. I'm sure of it. Part of her issue is the "funk/self-questioning/self-loathing/sadness/where did we go wrong/never thought we'd be here" thoughts she goes into WHEN she thinks about him and doesn't want to.

I'm sure part of what's going on for her right now is that me talking to the OBS has forced her back into that place. She'd just assume ignore it. I know (think?) we can't move forward till she looks at it and comes to peace with it.

[This message edited by HarryChicago at 10:09 AM, July 27th (Friday)]

I do think this will force a narrative change for her. She can't pretend she's this noble woman who turned her back on love for the sake of duty. She'll have to face the fact that she's just some sad louse who had an affair with someone else's husband.

swmnbc: Yes.

We were "perfect". While all of our friends had problems, ended up in D, etc. we were the poster child couple that everyone loved to hang with.

Now we're not. And she's mostly responsible.

[Edit. And we were never perfect. Otherwise this wouldn't have happened]

[This message edited by HarryChicago at 10:17 AM, July 27th (Friday)]

Harry I think that is on her. She needs to work that and figure it out. No amount of anything you do will resolve that.

A big part of R is creating new boundaries with not only other people but with each other. She has issues that are hers to fix. If she needs help she can ask, but really this on her to work through it.

JHMO. You can't rebuild a second M without both BS and WS being on stable ground.

Not calling you out. Most of us were co-dependent after Dday. It is so common it is almost the norm. You need to re-establish yourself and your identity outside of the M.

As hurt us because of how invested we were in our identities through our M. A lot of us further out have learned that investing emotionally in a M to the point there is nothing left was wrong. When Dday happens it threatens our entire world because we have choosen the M as the framework for our entire world. We did not always give it the effort we should, but it was still the foundation of our world. We need to make that framework larger. That is part of healing we need.

After an A you can't go back to what was before. That genie can't be put back into that bottle. Other people make choices and we can't control that. Learning from this experience and building something different is scary as hell. BTDT. Got several T-shirts

Make it about yourself right now. Build yourself a better framework and foundation with yourself. Expand your world. When the framework hurts, it hurts everything. Keep up with the IC. It really does help.

Congratulations Harry on exposing the A to OBS, of course OM had not told her anything, now you have another set of eyes on them, plus most of the time OM is desperately trying to save his own skin while throwing your WW under the bus, she will feel the shock waves of OM's reaction and hopefully the fog will disappear faster (not always but typically the case).

Have you expose the A to her parents or close relatives/friends ? Also if some of her "friends" knew and/or helped her conceal the A, they're NOT friends of the M and have to go, I know this is difficult but yes your WW needs to feel the embarasment and shame for what she did, she still needs more doses of reality and see the A for what it was, an awful life altering event where she compromised her dignity and consciously executed the ultimate betrayal to the person loved her the most and stood by her side for decades: YOU.