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In my view, after 16 years here, there is NOT an anti MC bias on SI.

However, there is a reasonable consistent warning about entering into MC too early. Too many jump from D-day to MC too quick, and that rarely goes well.

The immediate issue is trauma from the broken WS. You cannot easily discuss M issues until the WS has significantly owned their betrayals, lies, and manipulations completely. Has acknowledged that the A had nothing to do with the M, and shows remorse, contrition, and compassion to the BS.

You can't negotiate pre-A M problems in MC with an unremorseful cheater, or even a partially remorseful cheater, that happens to still be carrying feelings for the A or OP or thoughts of how the problems in the M were part of the reason in their cheating, or how it was only sex, or if you would just accept their sorry and move on things would be better, or how they wish you wouldn't keep bringing it up, etc, etc. Until they fix all that, MC is really too early.

That is not anti MC bias. It is anti, too early, MC knowledge and experience talking.

Totally agree. MC upfront is a bad idea. The other thing is if you get a good one great but many do not. Switch, it's your $'s if you are satisfied. These people are not gods.

IC upfront is a better option.

Right now from your posts you aren't in R.

You wayward should be pulling the heavy load. Doesn't sound like she doing much of anything except pining.

It sounds like you're enabling that.

Go your own way and worry about yourself. Looks like you're off to a good start.

We did MC upfront and it worked well for us, BUT our MC specialized in infidelity and because of this, she never and would never have pushed me toward "trusting" my husband so early on or that I think of us as a "team".

To me those are the issues. Not the MC itself. The fact that your counselor is literally treating your actions as equal in importance to her betrayal so early on is a red flag that they don't get it.

I would either a) look for another counselor who DOES specialize infidelity or b) be prepared to stand up for yourself and not allow the counselor to fuel your wife's victim mentality

[This message edited by strugglebus at 4:00 PM, July 29th (Sunday)]

We did MC early on -- but our MC held my wife fully accountable for her actions.

As my MC explained it, the only thing I did wrong was love my wife.

Our MC has 30-years in the biz and we found out toward the end of the sessions that he was a betrayed spouse too. He went the D route because his wife never owned her poor choices.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but it is critical to understand so that you can decide for yourself what you need to do -- R can happen, but not until your wife starts to see the damage she caused (a lot of that emotional fall out hasn't even kicked in yet).

The marriage had problems but marriages NEVER cause someone to cheat -- a person has to make that decision on their own.

Until your wife figures out HER issues, there isn't anything you can do to win her over. Nor should you. She needs to show you why you should stay.

The other marriage issues can be worked on once she owns ALL of her decision first.

Build yourself back up. Go do your favorite solo hobby - or workout or go for a hike, hang with some old buds at a bar and chill out, anything to detach a bit.

We did MC early on -- but our MC held my wife fully accountable for her actions.

As my MC explained it, the only thing I did wrong was love my wife.

This would be a scenario where MC can work. There are some MC's that are sufficiently experienced in their craft and in life to understand what has to happen first, before R can really take place. It looks like Oldwounds had one of those MC's.

If the MC is saying and doing things that are not in support of the BS then people are going to let you know.

As an example a MC should never say to the BS - what is your role in the A?

That is like saying that the BS is to blame.

No the CS is to blame. It was their choice to cheat.

MC needs to occur st the right time. And not when the CS is still hiding the A or detsils or is not remorseful etc.

Harry, I understand the love/hate view of SI. When I first joined, I received a ton of great support. Some of the advice, however, was very tough to read. We are here to help you get out of infidelity. Whether you R or D really doesn't matter to most members (or so I believe). It's your path to choose. There is a wealth of wisdom and experience here. Some of the things members write will resonate with you. Some of it won't. Keep in mind that R is never a forgone conclusion. Not every WS is willing or able to do the work.

MCs can and do work, it just seems there are some bad ones with no experience in infidelity. They want to put blame for the A on the BS. I am a big proponent of IC but many here had bad experiences. I think you try one and if it doesn't seem a fit you keep trying until you find one that is a fit.

Just adding to this -

OBS sends 4-5 friend requests to WS with nastier, meaner messages: "Did you think about my kids, I hope you lose your job, your hubby should leave you", with lots of 4 letter words thrown in.

Well, she kind of deserves it. Of course OBS should be asking her WH the same questions and laying most of the blame on him, he did promise to be faithful to her. Block OBS or shut down social media all together.

WS is feeling naked. If OBS goes nuclear, should could get outed to folks who don't know

If she had not gotten naked with AP she wouldn't feel that way. Sorry, don't do things you wouldn't do with your spouse standing beside you.

Question: Am I nuts or is there a (fairly strong) anti-MC bias on SI? I see a fair amount of "fire your MC" advice on other threads. What's up with that?

If there was a shred of evidence that MC early on was in the slightest bit helpful, then there would be a different take on it.

But real world experience as shown over and over that MC, in the early stages, has the exact opposite effect.

But if you are co-dependent. If you want to save the marriage at all costs. If you want to accept blame and internalize your WW's lack of morals and bad behavior...then early MC is right up your alley. Because that is what will happen. We see it time and time again.

If not....maybe listen to what people are tell you.

Am I nuts or is there a (fairly strong) anti-MC bias on SI?

There is a strong anti-bullsh*t bias here on SI.

When someone tells you you lacked trust with your spouse after they cheated, it's a common sense thing rather than kill the messenger vibe.

These are the things you have to work out for yourself. The question is why she cheated, the source, why she won't do it in the future, what work she has to do to make that a reality and how you can contribute to R as well.

Nothing wrong with MC's, just the ones spouting nonsense.

Obs sending nasty messages is to be expected and is part of her consequences-let her face them and they are not in you for telling. They are in her for having sex with another woman’s husband.

OBS had a right to know and your ww has proven that she is a liar and that she will protect only herself and is selfish. She still has feelings for someone she has no right to have feelings for. Where is that message from your mc? You shouldn’t trust her not to warn ap. You shouldn’t trust her at all she has t earned it.

No offense but your mc is a quack if they don’t see that there is no team when she has feelings for someone else still. There is no r. You shouldn’t even be in mc because you won’t be in r until your ww gets her head out of her ass. A truly remorseful ws does not still have any feelings for their ap.

The thought of being told so early out that you need to be a team and trust the person. Who stabbed you in the heart and is pushing it in a little more each minute while she still has feelings for someone else is ridiculous. Of course you don’t trust her, she has proven to be a liar and someone capable of causing immense paying and betrayal. Ask your mc that and see what is said. That should give you an idea of whether this mc would e we be good for you. It sounds more like mc is choosing to take the wa side

There is no anti-MC bias here. The collective experience here is that MC too early after the end of an A is not helpful. The WW is broken and needs to figure this out, start fixing herself. MC works where two intact individuals work together. It doesn't work if one of the spouses is broken and the other is still in trauma from discovering the A.

Your MC sounds like somewhat of a quack with that comment about "a team". Was your WW acting as a "team" when she snuck around behind your back, invited another man secretly into your marriage, and lied to you about it? Did she consult with you in advance to see whether you were okay with that?

Get out of MC...it's too soon.

Trust? Why would you trust your wife? She's a liar and remains untrustworthy until she proves (over time) that she can be trusted.

Negative feedback for inappropriate behavior is entirely on her.

The OW is saying your wife's behavior was immoral and hurt children etc (duh)...your wife needs to own what she did and 'who' she is in order to fit herself. You are in no way responsible nor should you attempt to shield her from the truth and society's disapproval.

You're the victim here ... not her - and she has a long way to go to fix herself.

While I agree MC too early isn’t always helpful and our mc was a quack, mc was helpful to us from the beginning and here is why. I think IC would have been a waste in the beginning for my husband. I’m not even sure he’d know where to begin. His brain was very messed up. Now 6 months after dday might have been helpful for him. While our mc avoided talk of the A which frustrated me, it forced my husband and I to come together weekly to reflect on stuff. It was an awakening for my husband on some levels. And for us, even though our mc didn’t discuss the A, at home my husband discussed it a lot for me. For us, IC wouldn’t have worked. We tackled this entire situation the way we always handled problems in our marriage- together. I think my husband was more open with me than he would have ever been with a counselor or anybody really. He always knew I was his best friend. Sure it makes trying to understand the A even more perplexing, but that is the truth. So for us, it was either muddle through it alone or through mc.

Our mc did do one thing right. He explained to my husband how the “love” in the affair was infatuation and not real love. That was certainly a helpful session.

New here, so probably there are many who disagree and I haven’t read enough, but I’ve always believed that if they have to make a choice between me and another, then he has chosen the other person because I refuse to stay with someone who would need a second to choose. II would forever wonder about his love and commitment.

If you’re not in 100% you need to be single and search for what you think you’re missing in your life without hurting anyone else.

JMO though.

Personal info-

Married 40 yrs

Together 42

Year 7 Affair - Husband only ever admitted to emotional w new coworker

Pregnant, move to new home, new baby - I never pushed further.

1 yr later - transfer 1000 miles, doesn’t even remember woman’s name now. Will never truly know.

New here, so probably there are many who disagree and I haven’t read enough, but I’ve always believed that if they have to make a choice between me and another, then he has chosen the other person because I refuse to stay with someone who would need a second to choose. II would forever wonder about his love and commitment.

If you’re not in 100% you need to be single and search for what you think you’re missing in your life without hurting anyone else.

JMO though.

Personal info-

Married 40 yrs

Together 42

Year 7 Affair - Husband only ever admitted to emotional w new coworker

Pregnant, move to new home, new baby - I never pushed further.

1 yr later - transfer 1000 miles, doesn’t even remember woman’s name now. Will never truly know.

[This message edited by GoneDoggyGone at 12:51 PM, August 1st (Wednesday)]

New here, so probably there are many who disagree and I haven’t read enough, but I’ve always believed that if they have to make a choice between me and another, then he has chosen the other person because I refuse to stay with someone who would need a second to choose.

GoneDoggyGone, I have been here a long time and this is how I feel, too. Many here do give it time, though. I support those BS's who make that choice. It just something I wouldn't be able to do.

Many have stuck by what we call "foggy" WS's and have gone on to reconciliation. Some of those reconciliations are great, a lot aren't. What I have seen happening is a lot of damage is inflicted on those BS's whilst waiting for the WS to come out of their "fog". Most of the time in these cases it winds up being "too little, too late".

Regarding waiting while the WS is in the fog. I’ll give you some information from my situation. It was 6 months of true fog in which he waffled about his feelings for her and a few months more of what I call reframing where he would reframe any leftover positive thoughts of her that popped up.

1) my dday was a confession because my husband was going to leave me

2) because of that, I didn’t have ammunition to say “drop AP or I’m leaving” with that said I knew that our relationship was worth a fight

3) that first six months was really my husband bringing his fantasy world into reality. I would never suggest that someone SHOULD do it because it was the hardest six months of my life. I did it because I saw the potential positive outcome.

4) sister milkshake is correct. The damage I sustained during those six months was brutal (for lack of a better description) and quite honestly I was broken at the end. Fortunately for me, my husband has been a model FWS since then and has helped me pick up the pieces. Not everyone has that outcome.

I usually agree that it is too early for MC.

I can't be too judgemental about it though. We went to a fantastic MC when we decided that we wanted to make the relationship work.

The MC we had also turned out to be a BW.

What I did come to realize was that my marriage didn't need the work. It was already dead.

So, while there was nothing wrong with the MC, I also realized that she was focused on the M and I wasn't even sure I wanted the M anymore.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 10:03 AM, August 2nd (Thursday)]

Harry, how are things going?