SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't posted in a long time, so for those who don't know my background: I learned my wife of 33 years had been having affairs on and off for 28 of those years with many men. She had been caught twice. The second time we went for counseling, she was embarrassed by confessing her deeds to a couple of our pastoral staff (trying to find help in the situation), and she saw how much she hurt me. However, all that did was make her better at covering her tracks. 20+ years later, I found she was trying to get back with BF #1 (3rd time found out) and the dam breaks as I learn how deep the well really is. I wanted to tell the children who were all over 16, she did not. All I wanted to tell them was that Mommy had a boyfriend, and that cannot be allowed in a relationship, that we are going to work on staying together, but there would be no guarantees. She asked me to wait a little longer, but between the request any my answer to agree, she went and told them.

A couple of years later, my oldest son and his wife have their first child and at that time my son changes his last name to his wife's maiden name, she changes her name back, and the child has the in-laws' last name. My son said he did it because that family taught him how to live life better. He also said in a different conversation that he was ashamed of me, that I needed to get some help, and until I do so I am not welcome in his home. He never calls me anymore and rarely responds to texts.

He went from high school directly into the Marines and I was very proud of him. He scored 1 point shy of a perfect score on his placement test, so he's very bright. He was a great kid, and as far as I know I've never done anything to hurt him. Rather, I've encouraged him to follow his own path in life.

I had a dream about him the other night which bothers me. His legs were of a normal, healthy Marine, but separated and turned outward. His knees were bent so his thighs were touching his lower legs. His torso was that of a midget, and that part of him was so short he head was at about the top of his knees. He walked like a spider, and he was naked.

I don't recall much more of the dream other than introducing him to someone "at the party" as my son, and my son was quite friendly toward the person, though I was a bit embarrassed.

I know what I think this dream means, but I want to hear from others which may be more in tune with dream interpretations than I am, for I am merely speculating.

He’s not the son you knew. He’s changed.

That is what your dream means.

Sorry your son has decided to stop communication with you.

I say this gently and this is just a guess.

I know Marines. My guess is that your son stopped communicating with you because he lost respect for you because you didn’t have the courage to divorce your WW and that you want to reconcile with her.

He may love his mom for all I know but a Marine will put personal courage, honor and loyalty above all else.

Marine will put personal courage, honor and loyalty above all else

Nothing honorable about cutting off your father who tried to hold the family together and siding with the cheating mother. It may or may not have been the right move to stay in the marriage, but there is as much courage as there is fear in that choice.

Beachwalker - I remember your post about your son disowning and frankly disrespecting you.

He is your son, and you love him and are obviously proud of his achievements. But at the same time, you have far more of a right to be ashamed of him than he does of your attempt to hold your family together. Perhaps your dream reflects the reality of what he really is and the abuse he put on you on top of your wife's abuse.

Dude67

Sorry - I didn't mean what I said as an attack on what you said. I agree that the Marines emphasize honor, etc... but at least one Marine is struggling with those teachings.

For me, dishonoring a parent who as far as I know was a present and good parent, and on top of that one who has been betrayed and hurt, is not a good look.

Based on what you have written here, one interpretation of your dream is that your son's physical appearance and your feelings of embarrassment at the party are actually a reflection of how you think your son sees you... friendly and amiable, but still a sad, broken person to be pitied and avoided. Another interpretation is that your son is barely recognizable to you and inspires disgust, but you still have trouble accepting this fact.

When you asked your son why he felt the way he did, what was his answer? What is your relationship like with your other children? Are they still in touch with your son? If so, have they been willing or able to provide you with any insights into why your son feels such contempt for his family and utter lack of respect for you specifically?

How would you describe your son's relationship with his mother as he was growing up? Has he cut her out of his life, too? If not, why? Why does she think he's cut you off? Is it possible that he knew about her affairs long before you did?

While I don't know your wife personally, I think it's very safe to assume that a woman who was carrying on multiple extramarital relationships over the course of three decades was not a particularly empathetic or emotionally available parent. It's just a reality of human nature that people who are manipulative, deceitful, and selfish are not this way in only one aspect of their lives. That's why I'm curious about the state of her relationship with your son in the past and now.

There is just no way your son woke up one morning, and-- apropos of nothing-- decided to disavow his family name and severely limit his relationship you. The timing of when he did this-- right after the birth of his first child-- indicates to me that he experienced some sort of serious trauma growing up from which he is determined to protect his child at all costs. You might not be the one who inflicted this trauma, but he may think (rightly or wrongly) that you enabled it.

If you haven't already, you really ought to see a individual counselor to help process your emotions, gain a better understanding of the toxic dynamics that were (and maybe still are) at play in your family. Your situation is very painful and complex, and this dream was just your brain's way of trying to make sense of it all.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:21 AM, Wednesday, May 11th]

Maybe he's in deep pain and decided to start over as a new person with a whole other family as an escape. I wish my family situation had been better too. Maybe he thinks he was injured and did not have the perfect situation he wanted. What about kids who were born disabled, do they blame the parents. Maybe some do. I know you think he feels injured in some way therefore his actions. You want him to be whole but know he's hiding his pain.

My ws brother was always ashamed of his family days. Married a haughty woman and moved far away. Looks down on all the brothers as less than even though he was one of the most troublesome ones that caused his parents stress.

People will run from the past. Better to see it clearly and be at peace with it.

I'm sorry he left but who knows he may return. He's got much healing to do still.

Lost opportunities20 - no worries. I didn’t take offense. What I posted were not my feelings about OP but how his son might view him.

Being smart – as in passing tests – does not equate to being emotionally and mentally stable and capable. Not saying your son is mentally unstable, but his reactions and actions – to me – do not sound like the thought out-actions of someone on a healthy path to personal recovery.

I might be totally off. All I have is what you share, and it doesn’t sound like you and your son were confrontational. It’s more like he was disillusioned with what he thought was a strong family-unit that then turned out to be fake. It doesn’t sound like he ever sat down with you to understand why you thought sheltering them from what’s going on and/or why you wanted to reconcile.

Younger people tend to have a very self-based moral view of the world where they might even have strict opinions on what they deem "wrong". Usually this wears off – or maybe jades off – as we grow older and more experienced. Most of us insisted we would divorce if our spouse cheated, yet not all of us do once we have our d-day. Most of us say we will kick out our teenage kids if they do dope, yet back down when we find a bong under the bed.

Do all Marines live within the ethical code of the Marine corps? I guess the Marines kept in brigs such as at Leavenworth indicate that’s not true. Marines are humans just like us – we have had active and former Marine BS and WS on this site, so simply having a code to live by doesn’t automatically lead to anyone living by it. We have BS and WS clergy folk here too – professions based on ethics. Wanting to be something and being it are two different things.

What would I suggest:
This is based on personal experience. I have a step-son that decided to break off all contact with us a week after reaching 18. Wife and I then started hearing rumors about domestic violence, alcohol abuse and chaos in our household. Rumors that we knew came from that person, and rumors that didn’t have an iota of truth behind them. I wrote him a letter where I stated that I was where I was and would be there in the future if he wanted to talk. I had nothing but love to him but wasn’t willing to compromise on my values to participate or facilitate some lifestyle decisions he made (basically drug use). He was always welcome into our lives but since he had left willingly and on his own, he had to initiate coming back. There would be some reckoning; we would need to sort out what happened, but I was open to a positive future relationship. I also told him that we saw no need to bad-mouth him or his actions – he was legally a grown man and could (and should) stand by his own deeds.
And that’s where I left him. We moved on, and a couple of years later he phoned and asked if we could meet and talk. Part of his sobriety 12-step work. Since then we have a wonderful relationship, fully reconciled.
But then – I’m not a Marine so I didn’t have the courage to disown my step-son and I wanted to reconcile with him…

Try to write him a letter that simply states your love for him, your best wishes to him and that you are there. That you would want to open up a dialogue towards reconciliation, but that you respect his stance and he will have to initiate the next step.
And then you move on.

Beachwalker, I remember your previous posts about this. He disowned you after your WW told him about her A without you present. You knew back then that she was still lying and manipulating. SHE wasn't disowned. She would call him after times she defended you to "explain things" to him without your presence. This seems calculated to me.

Personally, I think your WW had been working him away from you for a long time with those explanation phone calls. Most likely taking any little conflict or disagreement and blowing it out of proportion. Adding it as evidence to fit whatever narrative she spun about you. Her confessing the A (or whatever she said to them) may have been turned into a "Gotchya!" moment.

As unfair as it all is, what do you have to lose by going to an IC and humoring him if it means an improvement in your relationship? Are you still with your WW and is she still talking to him? By no means is this your fault but at the end of the day, I have to ask - would you rather choose your pride or have your son and grandchildren in your life? Both is not an available option to you. Is allowing them to not be in your life working out for you or what you really want? I just know that if I was in your shoes, I'd suck it up and go to IC even if it was just to put on the appearance that I was playing along and then figure out a way to undo whatever damage WW did and work to limit her influence over my life as much as possible. JMHO.

I very much appreciate the input and insight you all have shared, and I believe all of you are correct, each bringing your comments from a different perspective.

Dude67: I am not insulted by what you said or meant. I understand your intent and message. Plus, I did leave out the fact my WW and I cannot D at this time. She is on the backend of breast cancer treatments. In our state, at the time of D she would have to be immediately removed from my policy, so no right-minded judge would allow a D until she is through the rough stuff, and we are almost there. Also, finances prevent us from separating. But, our last 3 (triplets) are graduating in a couple of weeks and that will change a number of factors, allowing us to pursue separation at that point. I know you did not know all this. My son did tell my WW that unless she divorced me, she would be the recipient of the same treatment I was getting, so your view of his loyalty to his mom may be spot on.

1stWife: He has changed. I do not recognize this person any more. I can say that I look at this person with -- not so much with pity, but with a broken heart.

LostOp:

Perhaps your dream reflects the reality of what he really is and the abuse he put on you on top of your wife's abuse.

Regarding the abuse part, I really do feel this way. I feel he is in anguish and pain and this is his way of lashing out, blaming someone for what went wrong. Regarding "what he really is", I can't say. Maybe you are right, I don't know. Maybe the legs are the remnants of what he used to be in my eyes and the torso is what he has become, again, in my eyes. But is that what he "actually" has become, I don't know. I don't want that to be true. Then again, what parent would.

Blue: My son and I have had 1 conversation regarding this matter since he cut me off. Yes, there were a few texts, but nothing substantial in them that I remember. He called me out of the blue, no warning to have this very deep, serious discussion. I was caught off-guard, to say the least, and I had to get ready for work in 20 minutes, so we didn't have much time. I am sure he thought I was just cutting him off, though I tried to reassure him that wasn't the case, even in subsequent texting. He seemed to have a good relationship with his mom up until the confession. He did tell me that at one point he simply wanted to cut himself off from the family and move on, as someone suggested here as a "fresh start". I don't think he knew of the A's; rather, I think this blind-sided him, as it did me. I think he believes he is protecting his family from "something". I was in counseling for a while, but my insurance doesn't cover it and I had to discontinue. I plan to return when I can afford it. I'm sure you can imagine the cost of raising 5 kids; well, it's worse when you have multiples!

pureheart: I believe he is in deep pain, and I believe he is ashamed of his family, especially his parents. And whom else is there to blame for this other than the parents?

Bigger: You are right -- He was disillusioned. The world he thought was real fell down like a backdrop on a stage. I know what a shock this has been for him. << me, too >> I like your idea of writing him a letter. I hope you don't sue me for plagiarism as I intend to copy some of what you said verbatim. I will then step back and wait until he has healed and is ready to talk. Thanks!

Neko: I am in agreement with you in that I think my WW has been manipulating this whole situation to her advantage. She has told me outright that she is afraid of losing the children and she doesn't want our relationship to end because she doesn't want to be left alone. This time of "percolating" has helped her gradually come to grips with our separation rather than it happening abruptly. For her, it is working out. Maybe God has decided this is what she needs, I dunno. I do intend to return to IC when the budget allows. For those who believe in the RV, this will allow me that needed freedom, both to D and return to IC.

When the D is final, the first thing I am going to do is put my phone on "Do Not Disturb" and take some time to decompress. The stress of the SA's, my son, 2 of my other children not talking to me at all, my work, finances, some of my coworkers, etc., has just been waayyyy too overwhelming for waayyyy too long. I feel like taffy being pulled from one end of the room to the other: My middle part is hair thin and drooping to the floor. And, I need a massage.

I am very sorry for what you are going through. Losing your marriage/wife to infidelity is traumatic and you are now "losing" your son. I feel your heartache. And I feel your son’s pain as well. Selfish acts of one person can reverberate through generations. It sucks. It’s wrong. It gets me so angry.

I don’t have much to add to what was already said but just wanted to let you know that we are here for you collectively. You sound like a good man with a forgiving and generous heart. I hope your son can see that. I hope your relationship with your son can be restored and you can be an integral part of your grandkids’ lives. Best of luck to you. Please keep us posted.

2 of my other children not talking to me at all

I'm guessing they attended the confession too? Are they saying similar things to your son?

DailyGratitude: Thank you for your kind words and support. I, too, hope my relationship with my son can be restored with time, counseling, and patience.

Neko: Yes, the 2 were present at the "confession". I have asked my children what my WW said to them, but they all refused to "get involved." However, from comments here and there, I know she told them negative things about me, like how I wasn't there to support her, that I spent money on Bitcoin instead of paying the mortgage, I wasn't present during the birth of the children, and so forth. I don't have the stomach for being present during a birth, so the staff told me to stay out -- they didn't want another patient when I passed out. But, I was right there up until they took her into the delivery room. Other than that, the rest is a heap of lies. I am sure there is more she told them which I've not heard, yet. I am trusting that over time the children will see through this veil of deceit and "pity me" scandal. Regarding talking to my son, I don't think there is much communication between them anymore. He has successfully distanced himself from all of us here.

Based on the additional info, I agree with Neko that you wife has been speaking with your kids behind your back and undermining your relationship with them. How is your relationship with the 2 children you are still speaking with at the moment? What are their thoughts on this situation?

Whatever divorce plans you have, keep them close to the chest and make sure you have all your ducks in a row before pulling the trigger. Your WW is an extremely vindictive woman and I doubt she will let you go quietly, so the less advance warning she gets and the more prepared you are, the better.

Semper Fidelis

I am afraid that your son doesn't understand the motto.

Blue: With the 2 remaining children, our relationship is good. They seem to have the perspective that this problem is between my WW and me. The reason I am D'ing my WW is that I don't trust her any more. Whatever plans I may have or create in the future, I intend to keep inside. Indeed, she is vindictive. I have seen this over the years. I believe you have her cold.

HUM: There have been times I wanted nothing to do with the Corps any more. My son referenced what the Corps taught as support for his decision. But, I know this isn't fair to the rest of the good men and women Marines. It's just the association of the Corps to my son, and his using their teaching in his decision process that has tainted my view. I think that is waning, but I still have no desire for any Marine Corps logos or paraphernalia around me. Maybe time will heal that wound in me, too. I think my son is very wounded, and that he is not, or has not been capable of making logical decisions. I think I need to give him time to heal, just like I needed time for the same reason.