SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am sorry I am spam posting lately, but my reconciliation has fallen apart completely and I am really bamboozled and shaken. I saw a side of my WH I didn't think existed. Even with the affair, I thought I knew him and that there were things he wasn't capable of - like talking to me the way he did today.

We had a huge argument over the weekend. It was the 1st anniversary of DDay 1 so I was reallytriggered and instead of making it as easy as he could, there was a big argument over AP and Facebook. The gist was:

- I wanted him to block AP on Facebook (he had unfriended but still not blocked and she was tagging mutual friends into posts so he could still see her) and untag himself from all the photos she took of him and posted during the affair (which a year after Dday were still literally there on my own fucking husband's page).

- He refused to do it because he said it might cause AP to act in revenge (she is crazy) and he said he hadn't had contact with her for months and why was I asking him to do something he felt was dangerous and invalidating his "legitimate concerns"

It turned into a huge argument and I threatened him with divorce after which he deleted Facebook entirely which he felt was the only acceptable alternative to facing APs potential ire.

He was definitely the one in the wrong, because blocking her finally was a complete no-brainer, but because it launched off me being awake all night crying and telling him how much what he did traumatised me, he came away from it basically thinking that I was "making" him feel "worthless" and guilty for things he did months ago that he can't change.

When obviously what I was asking him to do was change it!!!!

I told him he makes himself feel all those things by not doing what he needs to do to make amends for the crappy things he has done and if he wanted to feel proud of himself he had to change his actions. The lack of accountability is staggering. In his "poor me" mind right now: me not letting him rugsweep = me making him feel like a bad person, or making him feel worthless.

So since that argument, all week he's barely said two words to me, which has never happened before in all the years we have been together, so I told him I was getting pissed off at being ignored. I told him a few times and he just kept on ignoring. I tried to instigate conversation a lot of times and got one word answers. I pressed him tonight and said I was mad and hurt too, but if he kept pushing me away he was going to make a bad situation really, really bad because I was at tipping point.

He said he was very hurt and couldn't cope with me saying more things to hurt him, so it was better not to talk beyond discussing plans for my birthday weekend (this weekend). I said "so you expect to stonewall me all week for the crime of being upset about your affair and asking you to block your mistress, then go out for a fun birthday?"

He said he wasn't doing anything, he was taking care if his wellbeing. I said "and who's taking care of mine?"

I explained what stonewalling was and screenshotted him message to me after Dday where he said "I feel like it's dangerous for us to stop communicating. That's red alert. We would each scuttle off to our bunkers and come up with narratives that were not true. Please don't stop talking to me".

The hypocrisy that I didn't give him the silent treatment when he had a fucking affair, but now I am getting it for BRINGING UP THE AFFAIR or asking him to block the person he cheated with is blowing my tiny mind.

Then he starts saying out of nowhere, "I am not a worthless human, I am not going to be made to feel like one for mistakes I made".

WTF?! I have literally been the most loving and forgiving person and I swear since I met him have done nothing but try and teach him self-worth (he had none when we met and even less now because he cheated) and I feel so hurt that he is accusing me of making him feel worthless for the crime of actually having feelings for actions he committed to me or needs that he created for me.

He even said to me "I used to admire you because you were such a happy person and I wanted to be around that". Cough! As opposed to me being less fun now since you destroyed my fucking life so you could get laid?! Is AP more fun?!!!

I know this is abuse!

I have never done a single thing to harm him since we met. And this is why this hurts so much. He had an AFFAIR. With multiple DDays. And he wants to tell me that I make HIM feel worthless? How the fuck does he think I feel?

I have asked him for a divorce now and this time I think I really meant it

I don't even feel sad right now, just resigned. This past year, I have watched a man I once thought the world of sink over and over again to depths I didn't think was possible. I have watched him mistreat me dozens of times, and watched him make a mockery of our reconciliation. I feel almost like the man I loved is gone anyway, so what's the point of staying with this new, horrible person? I was listening to him talk, and I thought, "I just don't know this person anymore". It was the loneliest feeling.

I used to love a person who was the kindest and most honest person I knew. I loved him so much. He was humble and gentle and clever and he treated me like I was precious and what we had was so good. He destroyed it, and when given the chance to fix it, all he wanted to do was protect himself.

His affair and his insane AP gave him a bonafide nervous breakdown. And now the version of him I live with can't cope with life. He's no longer fit or healthy. He is angry all the time. He is hopeless and can't feel joy or excitement or anything good. She did that to him, but I am here picking up their pieces. Living with a depressed person is hard anyway, but when the thing that depressed them was betraying you, then I think there's probably no greater love than the love it takes to do that.

I am so sad for him that he pissed that away.

I took care of him when he was at his lowest. I told myself he had made mistakes because he was abused as a kid but he really loved me and I loved him and we would be okay. Then he blew every chance I gave him. He turned into the "what not to do" version of this.

I think the mistake I made, was thinking he was better than he really is. He's a good person inside, a person I love deeply and wanted to share a life with, but he's too cowardly to face what he's done.

He had an affair because he has a weak ego, low-self esteem and the ability to only look out for himself because he learned as a kid to do that. He takes what makes him feel good in the moment. For a time, that was me. Then when 5000 miles separated us for a year, he took what was there.

Right now, I think he'd probably prefer to be shacked up with AP telling him how great he was, rather than living the consequences. For about ten minutes while the validation made him feel good-enough so he didn't have to sit with painful feelings. Then she'd be right back to hitting herself in the face and he'd fall even darker into his hole wishing he had never destroyed beautiful, kind Grace, who he always said he didn't deserve.

I betrayed myself this past year by tolerating behavior that wasn't acceptable, and he got comfortable disrespecting me and not keeping agreements. I should have left a long time ago

I was afraid he'd kill himself for a while. I was afraid she'd kill him. I was afraid if I left him he would end up with AP and she was bonafide dangerous and I was afraid for him because if he had it would have definitely ruined his life for good. I was afraid he would get too sick to work. The reasons I stayed were mostly for him.

For me, there was the hope that he's rise from the ashes of his mistake and fix himself, because he loved me enough to know he owed it to us both to make sure he became a better, stronger, healthier person who chose to become a man who deserved me.

I loved him, no matter what he did I didn't want to see him hurt. Even if he brought it on himself, I think I knew losing me would permanently destroy him. I think he's a person who sets out to destroy himself, because he hates himself. And cheating on me made him hate himself the worst.

It's my birthday this weekend.

My last birthday was spent with AP calling me over 50 times, messaging, harassing me while I vomited and shook. I remember so clearly the feeling I had was pure terror. Terror for whatever cruel, vile thing her next crazy message was going to say. Terror that if anyone hurt me any more, I would die from the pain.

I am so sad he let me down so much.

I’m so incredibly sorry he has not worked harder to become the man you hoped he would be. It sounds like you have given him plenty of opportunities to get his shit together, and he has basically refused.

Unfortunately, those of us who give our cheating spouses a second chance have to be prepared to pull the plug if they continue to prove themselves to be unsafe partners. It appears you have decided he is in fact unsafe, and are ready to take the next step. I understand, and fully support your decision if that’s what you think is best for you. I know it’s heart breaking. I know it’s hard. You WlLL get through this!! I would suggest looking into the 180 as a way to start establishing some boundaries and detaching emotionally from your WH.

There is a chance this will be a much needed wake up call for him. Of course you don’t have to care, but it may be what gets him to stop living in "let’s pretend this never happened, except when I want to think about the AP" fantasy land. You can always put a halt to divorce proceedings if you see reason to.

Also, if this ends up being a vent post, and you feel differently tomorrow (or in a week) that’s ok too. I had many a frustrating days with my husband where I was hell bent on divorce, only to regroup and change my mind. R can be really confusing and really fucking hard. However, a least from this particular post, I do think you have plenty of reasons to be frustrated and unsatisfied with how he handling himself. It is good to have boundaries, and even when it’s difficult, to enforce them.

Wishing nothing but the very best for you.

first off - he doesn't "get it"

He isn't working on making internal changes needed to become a welcome life partner in the matrimonial sense.

From your post - I would hazard he is, at best and if he was working on himself, a couple years before he would

be safe.

then:

I have asked him for a divorce now and this time I think I really meant it

ASK? ???!!!

Just start the process yourself -

He morally divorced you by having an affair - you will be just doing the legal part of a permanent living arrangement that gets

the xxxxxxx out of your life.!

As one plows through life one blunders into sorry examples of humankind and you must realize you cannot force change on people unless you put them in constraints. So? You get yourself away from them. Put your heart on pause and let your brain guide your actions to work on finding a happier place to be.

edit:
Undeserving has posted some good words. Optimistic but good -

I look at his history and don't think you should hold out for improvement. Start the legal process - you can always abort if you change your mind.

Regarding "How will I feel tomorrow?" - make a list of things - good and bad - try to assign some values to each item: For example - honesty (a vital part of integrity) needs to be a perfect 100.

For the "Coitus with the ex" - that would be a perfect negative 100. Is either of these two a deal-breaker if he doesn't measure up? Just how much forgiveness do you have.

And, you have to live with these memories the rest of your life. Those memories will be a lot easier to deal with if you a long time permanently separated. (experience here)

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 4:05 AM, Thursday, November 18th]

I really appreciate this community. I love the way people are supportive and not judgemental. I don't think I would have "survived infidelity" had I not spent all these months reading every thread here. Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone

You have been heard. I am so sorry you are hurting. My WH was very much like yours in that I really believed he was the most honest person I knew.

Just remember that you will feel better. You will survive this and thrive.

Take care of you. If this is when you D, then get it going (the S/D forum is full of nice folks who can help you through that). If not, we’re here to help you through your next steps.

(((Hugs)))

Yeah well, this is bullshit. I’m very sorry this is happening on top of everything else. He doesn’t "get it" because he does not want to. Typical WS horseshit you’re getting here. Naugahyde "remorse." Layered with stonewalling, additional gaslighting, DARVO, the works.

I’ve said before that unfortunately too often BS’s find they have worldviews (think integrity and empathy and basic decency and kindness) that are diametrically opposed to the worldviews held by their WS’s.

This is probably the real shock of DDAY. And the hits keep on coming. That is vitally important to understand.

Whatever persona WS’s adopted in their teens and twenties wears thin by midlife and they are left exposed for all to see. It’s not a pretty sight.

A worldview is a very engrained, deep way of seeing life and operating within reality. You’re seeing that now I’m afraid. Affairs aren’t accidents. They aren’t because a WS was preyed upon. They happen because of a flawed worldview that drives willful decisions.

But on another level this a good thing for you, for your mental health and for your future. Because in seeing this you get to decide what’s best for YOU, not for him.

Typical WS horseshit you’re getting here. Naugahyde "remorse." Layered with stonewalling, additional gaslighting, DARVO, the works.

This.

The scales have been removed from my eyes.

Maybe the reason he thinks he is a shit person is because he is.

Maybe the reason he has never thought he deserved me is because he doesn't.

From your byline:

DDay 2 - Feb 21, ONS with AP after I asked for a divorce. WH will maintain we were separated

The D request either shocks them back or they decide to end it. His response was to run off and go back to bangin' strange with the insane GF.

Since then, he hasn't changed at all.

And now he's thinking you're not the happy loving person you used to be. Gee, I wonder why that is?

It's clear the A was close to an instant deal breaker and he's done nothing but stupid in responding to it, and to you.

This is tough, but you do know what you have to do.

[This message edited by rugswept at 9:52 AM, Thursday, November 18th]

Things have escalated here.

You have two other threads regarding R. One asking for hope from those of us that have survived an affair snd the other about how your H stayed with you through your Dday anniversary meltdown.

I understand your situation and empathize with how you feel. It shouldn’t be a fight regarding FB. Your request was reasonable.

But so is his fear of retaliation from the crazy OW. Fear is a very powerful motivating factor. His choice to remove FB completely is better than him doing nothing. But it wasn’t the route you wish he chose. His fear of OW makes him want to AVOID her at all costs. So he may not make the best choice given the situation. But in his mind perhaps he feels he gave you what you wanted or needed.

So you were left feeling that you are not the priority to him. And I understand why you feel that way.

Your H and his severe emotional issues and breakdown
leave you in a very difficult situation. He is not talking to you but it is FEAR and a whole host of other things that he is doing (not saying it is right) to "protect" himself.

He’s not able to support you or see things from your perspective. And that hurts you and your marriage unfortunately.

I understand how and why you feel this way. I hope things calm down and he starts talking to you. We know the choice to ignore you is detrimental and obviously has lead to the point of D.

I’m so sorry for you b/c I know you keep trying and you are not feeling positive about your marriage. I keep hoping things will improve but I think you have some tough decisions to make.

Is the affair causing the D or is it the issues of Reconciliation causing the D?

It wasn't until I actually stopped talking and stopped threatening and started acting to get out of the M that the dynamic between us changed. When I hired a mediator and set up appointments for us (we completed the entire divorce and signed off), did a full and hard 180, separated finances, told my family--and stayed on that path for many months--then my H started DOING things differently. His words? Who knows what he was saying. His words were always inconsistent and full of false promises. But when did he start actually realizing, "I think I f@cked up"? When I no longer cared and was two feet out the door.

I am only here because he won me back through consistent actions, not because he promised me he would win me back through consistent actions. And he figured out how to take those actions all by himself. My days of directing him were over. I was gone. Only his actions saved things.

Words are useless in these situations. The BS needs to speak their needs with their actions (kind of like, "Vote with your feet"), and the WS needs to speak their dedication in the exact same way.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:01 AM, Thursday, November 18th]

@The1stWife

I think the reason I have posted so much this week if that I knew I'd reached a tipping point. He was edging dangerously close to me walking away and I was looking for reasons to just give once more chance.

I understand your situation and empathize with how you feel. It shouldn’t be a fight regarding FB. Your request was reasonable.
But so is his fear of retaliation from the crazy OW. Fear is a very powerful motivating factor. His choice to remove FB completely is better than him doing nothing. But it wasn’t the route you wish he chose. His fear of OW makes him want to AVOID her at all costs. So he may not make the best choice given the situation. But in his mind perhaps he feels he gave you what you wanted or needed.

Yes, and I was willing to accept this grudgingly. However, what made me so angry is that I had to fight him for a month over it. I had to ask 6 or 7 times and pack a suitcase for him to even compromise. He didn't come to me kindly and gently and say "I can see you have this need, I do not want you to hurt, I will do all I can to protect you". If I had I would not be angry. Instead of does it kicking and screaming at me not validating his legitimate fears.

He created the need in me to block OW
I did not create his problem for him

He broke "no contact" a lot of times. Had he proven trustworthy, he would not still be at scorched earth. He chose that.

I understand how and why you feel this way. I hope things calm down and he starts talking to you. We know the choice to ignore you is detrimental and obviously has lead to the point of D.

If course he will, about 48 hours will go by before the begging starts. But that's also selfish, no? That he doesn't hear me or respond to me until HE is risking pain and suffering?

Is the affair causing the D or is it the issues of Reconciliation causing the D?

100% the R

I have to be honest, the actual A is something I'd get over fairly easily. It happened when we were apart for well over a year. I believe he wasn't interested in the AP romantically. It didn't wound me on a viscerally level in the way it might some people.

But him having the opportunity to repair what he had done and giving anything less than 100% wounded me viscerally.
Him running to AP when I rejected him wounded me viscerally

Of all the things he did, sending her a fond farewell letter when he left was the worst thing of all. This woman TERRORISED me. And in return he sends her a message absolving her of all wrongdoing and talking about what great friends they were and how alike they were. It was disgusting.

I am only here because he won me back through consistent actions, not because he promised me he would win me back through consistent actions. And he figured out how to take those actions all by himself. My days of directing him were over. I was gone. Only his actions saved things.

The thing is, I feel like he is too late. I don't want him to save it now. I think I just want him to leave me alone permanently. I had a point where I just thought, "I don't want this person anymore". I woke up even more certain than yesterday that I want D.

- We have no children (I have one but he's nearly grown) and while my son used to love him, he is still furious with WH (my son has also experienced a year of AP stalking. It is better for my son to be away from this, because for the first time in his life he lives in a house with raised voices.

- We have no financial ties (I make more money than him and we sold our house). We don't even share a bank account. Our finances can be severed in 15 minutes.

- We have no "life ties", we just moved to a new community to escape AP and I finish my studies / my son finishes his in a few months and then we can work from anywhere.

There is nothing, in terms of lifestyle or my needs that kept me in the M. Only love.

We have a rental apartment in the city and a rental country house. I sent his stuff over in a car at 6am this morning. He had little stuff. A few suitcases. The rest is still in storage pending us buying a place. I can almost literally just never see him again. Sign a few papers and this chapter of my life disappears.

I think a part of me stuck with this because my first husband passed away very suddenly in an accident. That was six years before I met WH, and WH proved to me it was possible to love someone as much again. I think after you lose someone to the powerlessness of death, in infidelity you want to believe there is hope. If no one is dead, you still have hope, right?

I think also, after experiencing so many years of grief that I thought would swallow me whole, I put so much hope into WH. He felt like my new beginning. To accept it was just more grief felt too tiring. I wanted a happy ending. Not another tragic story.

I think what someone else said above was right about world views. Mine was loyalty, family, honesty, integrity and you look after and protect the people you love. I honestly thought WH shared those views and if we had not been separated the way we were then none of this would have happened and I might never have known his darkness.

I think he wanted to share those views. I think he admired them and knew they were good views but they weren't how he'd learned at 16 / 17 / 18 to live life. He learned that he had to take care of only himself and do whatever he could to feel better. This was how he described the affair:

"When it started there was never anything to tell you about because it was just someone I had a coffee with and talked to about work. I had no attraction to her at all. The rest was little by little by degrees. The thing is, I wasn't sure what was happening with us and I thought maybe we weren't going to make it, so I retreated into my shell. I felt bad and criticised, and lonely, and she was very kind and caring, available and didn't ask anything of me. And then I just got into a mess in my head of thinking "screw it". My "screw it" mentality. Life is short and meaningless. We are all going to die soon. Gracey is not a safe bet anymore. I don't want AP but her company is comforting. I am a shit human being. This is how my fatalistic mindset works. Get joy where you can because there is so little of it. And before she went mental I enjoyed her company. She was nice to me. I never had feelings for her though"

And I think that's more or less an accurate assessment of why he cheated, why he relapsed or broke NC every time we had an argument and why he didn't REALLY want to shut the door on AP. I think his subconscious saw her company as comforting, and something that would help him cope with the rather inevitable eventuality of me leaving him.

He needed IC so badly, and if he had got it a year ago I honestly think he would have been okay

My H too sent the OW a "good bye" letter (on dday2 when he chose to end the affair) and it was pretty awful. He told her he loved her but was staying with me "because I needed him".

Which is utter crap b/c I was the one who was planning to D and actually doing something. He just kept talking about it.

He then claimed he wrote that letter to let her down easy and hoping she wouldn’t contact me and let me know about the continued affair (which I thought was over months before).

That made Reconciliation very difficult when I found that letter (one month into Reconciliation or one month into “I had not D him yet”).

I don’t know how I got past that. It just seemed insurmountable at the time. Yet I did. I think I accepted the fact that he was completely out of character and trying to contain a bad situation. His thought process was completely flawed.

Still hurts to this day that he wrote that. That he out HER needs before mine. That he was watching me crumble and chose to protect the OW.

Yup it all hurts. I completely understand how you feel.

So sorry for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:22 PM, Thursday, November 18th]

From what you describe, he is ok with hurting you if it means he can be more comfortable. What he is doing now is as bad or worse than the cheating. He is watching you hurt but since it protects him and allows him to keep lying to himself about who he really is and why you are in pain, he keeps hurting you. It doesn't bother him that much or he wouldn't do it. Stop letting him and stop protecting him from the consequences of his actions. You don't ask for a divorce, you get one.

If you leave and he has a mental breakdown, this is NOT YOUR FAULT or your responsibility. He is watching you have a breakdown and seems annoyed by it.

He isn't doing the work and I don't think he ever planned to. Reconciling requires empathy. He doesn't have any for you. Please take care of yourself. I am so sorry you are hurting.

He then claimed he wrote that letter to let her down easy and hoping she wouldn’t contact me and let me know about the continued affair (which I thought was over months before).

Same really, or he says I wasn't talking to him, and he was sick, and she started coming into his office to check he was okay out of concern for his mental health, and he thought he could "close it down" nicely before he left.

That betrayal for me probably was insurmountable. I've tied, but to send her a thank you note for torturing me was probably always going to be a bridge too far...

From what you describe, he is ok with hurting you if it means he can be more comfortable.

Yup. And that's why he cheated too.

What he is doing now is as bad or worse than the cheating. He is watching you hurt but since it protects him and allows him to keep lying to himself about who he really is and why you are in pain, he keeps hurting you.

Exactly this. It's much worse than cheating.

He isn't doing the work and I don't think he ever planned to

.

I think he did for about 9 weeks. After that, he's given at best 30%.

Thank you x

I am wishing you hope and courage during this awfully troubling time.

Feelings are powerful. From my experience, during my breakdown during the separation heading towards a divorce, I was flip flopping all over the place. I get it.

With kindness, there is calm at the end of any storm.

Honestly, Grace, I think you're right to leave. He sounds like he's moving backwards, and you can neither drag nor chase him onto a better path. You can only be responsible for you.

Based on other threads I've been reading lately, I think some BS believe that just because WS understand how other WS think, that means we're advocating for those WS to get endless chances to try to make things right. If so, that's a misunderstanding of my position and goals.

I get your WH. I've lived inside a head that thinks like he thinks. I've also seen the effect it has on a BS firsthand. I know that he won't change unless he's forced, and I find it very discouraging that he is still too panicked to face himself and make anything more than surface changes. In short, I see no evidence that he's capable of becoming a healthy partner for you.

The man is clinging to the rail of the sinking Titanic, too afraid of the icy water to accept the laws of physics. He's going down no matter what you do. I can feel compassion for whatever made him what he is and still tell you to pry his hand off your wrist and get in the lifeboat.

I'm really sorry, GraceLoves. I found that the hardest part of all of this was when I truly saw my XWH for who he was. That clarity was heartbreaking. It was also very freeing. You know what and who you're dealing with and you seem to understand it. It's not a pretty thing to go through.