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New MC session again today. It's as if last week never really existed.

Session started with MC saying that she didn't actually check in with me at the end of the last session, knew that Mrs. Cap had thrown a lot at me, and wanted to know how I was doing.

Told her that I felt pretty beaten up and downhearted. Felt like I got blindsided by things that I never knew were issues and that I got painted as the villain. Said that, deep down, it felt like we were right back to where we were pre-A.

MC said that was what she was afraid had probably happened. Mrs. Cap told the "story" that I had left without saying anything. I corrected it to say that I did leave, I did tell Mrs. Cap that I was leaving. When asked where I was headed, I answered "Not sure. I just need to get away and process things." Mrs. Cap then had an a-ha moment and remembered that I did, in fact, say that I was leaving for some alone time.

At one point in the session, I brought up how I wasn't able to talk about painful issues because Mrs. Cap runs away from them and how that further destroys any semblance of connection. Mrs. Cap said "I won't run away, I want to be able to support you."

MC asked "what was that look about?" [Because yes, I flashed a look]

I said "That's odd because last week you said that you didn't feel safe discussing anything with me unless we were in session, and just one week before that, you made the statement that you aren't willing to talk about anything. So that look was one of 'I don't believe a word that was just said.' Basically, I'm not a believer in that statement."

MC said "That's fair. You have good reason not to trust what has been said."

MC then looked at Mrs. Cap and said "There is a lot of pain still in him. The only way this gets resolved is if you are willing to sit, to listen, to not be defensive, to not make excuses, to be willing to not use his pain against him. You need to simply be present, to hear his heart speak, and to recognize that you caused it. You can't say 'yeah,but...' You can't say 'well, you...' And you can't say 'that was the old me.'

Then, the MC went on to say that if Mrs. Cap has actually changed, then her actions need to show it. She can't just say "but I'm different on the inside" because the same bad actions with "different" motives are still bad actions.

Mrs. Cap finished up the session saying that she was sorry for how she held me out as the bad guy last week, that she didn't mean for it to go that way, and that she was glad that I was willing to come back and share. Then she told the MC the EXACT thing I posted last week...she can't go that long between sessions again. I just shook my inner head (because I couldn't ACTUALLY do that in session).

Had to table the discussion about our sex life until 2 weeks out. MC suggested that we go back to 90 minutes because 60 leaves too many loose ends.

Your WW seems similar to an alcoholic in a way. She seems to be able to see her problems when the counselor points them out and will listen to the counselor, however, your opinion she dismisses. Almost as though she needs a sponsor-type that she can discuss things with between counseling sessions. It's very telling that that individual can't be you as she doesn't seem to respect your opinion.

It seems as though you are trying to fix 40 years of bad habits and self-centeredness. It looks like you still have a long road ahead, even though you are years in. I commend you for your commitment and patience. From what you've written, you will need a lot more of it.

She seems to be able to see her problems when the counselor points them out and will listen to the counselor, however, your opinion she dismisses.

I have a different take on this. She wears a mask in front of the MC. Away from the counsellor, her mask slips.

Cap -
Counseling, although MC is often about starting/maintaining a dialogue - once those sills are learned it's up to the bravery of the participants to face what they need to say, or face what they need to hear.

I've found that I never discovered anything in counseling that I didn't already know in my heart/gut.

Hellfire makes a great point. If she's faking it, call her out.

I remember counseling for us initially feeling to me like a balancing act. I didn't want to push too hard, because I wanted her to keep attending. That gave her an easier path to travel, and made me feel totally unheard.

When I realized I was protecting her from the fallout of her own actions at my expense and just called "bullshit", she had no choice but to begin to do the work.

When I realized I was protecting her from the fallout of her own actions at my expense and just called "bullshit", she had no choice but to begin to do the work.

I have certainly not protected her in MC settings. I have called out every lie/half-truth/omission that has come from her, starting with her "history" story where she swore that there was "nothing sexual" about her A [except for those darn discussions about what they wanted to do to one another, how often, how good her pajamas would look on the floor next to his bed, etc., you know, THOSE details].

When we went back to MC this time (after about a 2-year hiatus because the last MC lost control of the sessions and refused to confront my wife on her BS AND refused to allow me to confront it as well), I was steadfast that she didn't get to control the narrative, that anytime she painted me as the villain & herself as the victim, it would be confronted, either in that particular session or another.

Thankfully, this MC doesn't put up with any of her crap.

I have a different take on this. She wears a mask in front of the MC. Away from the counsellor, her mask slips.

This. If you're being fair about what you're sharing, this.

The person closest (you) to this personality type has the least impact on them. It's as though you're of no genuine consequence unless there is an audience, right? But when the moment of truth comes (will they make positive changes without an audience aside from you), they have every excuse to simply stay the same. They have you, you won't leave/nothing changes and so they've no reason to improve. And so the push and pull/viscious cycle continues.

Is it fair to say this describes your situation Cap?

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 2:23 PM, Tuesday, October 5th]

They have you, you won't leave/nothing changes and so they've no reason to improve. And so the push and pull/viscious cycle continues.

...until, they see that look in your eyes and think to themselves, "Oh shit, I just crossed a line." I call it the cobra stare. Unblinking. Cold blooded. Covered in scales. And deadly lethal. It is the day you determine that you will not tolerate mistreatment one more time. It is the day that you realize that loving yourself is not antithetical to loving someone else, it is essential. It is realizing that you are just as worthy of the respect that you have been pouring out to them in bucketfuls.

Only you can get you there.

She wears a mask in front of the MC. Away from the counsellor, her mask slips.

My take is that the MC can cut through the mask that Mrs. Cap started building an reinforcing for decades. Of course she puts it back on when she leaves the session.

It might be good if Mrs. Cap started therapy with someone like this MC. Perhaps this MC would take her on in IC or recommend someone like her as Mrs. Cap's new IC. Of course, it looks like these sessions ARE IC sessions for your W, with you there to keep her honest....

Why didn't you shake your head in the session, Cap? What were you avoiding? If you thought it was just another symptom of the what you showed during the session - maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. My reco is to consider letting it all hang out in future sessions.

I've always thought MC sessions should be 90-120 minutes....

Your w is getting good stuff from this round of MC, Cap, if she uses it.

Are you getting enough? Have you changed your view of your M, your W, and/or yourself?

Your w is getting good stuff from this round of MC, Cap, if she uses it.

Are you getting enough? Have you changed your view of your M, your W, and/or yourself?

When I look at the total, all encompassing pieces from throughout our 10 months...absolutely! I am wholeheartedly THRILLED with the MC, with the way the sessions typically run AND that this MC has enough skill and experience to see when there are shenanigans going on with Mrs. Cap and she (the MC) stops things to address everything.

Why didn't you shake your head in the session, Cap? What were you avoiding?

The internal headshake was more about me having an agreement with myself because the whole "can't go 8 weeks between sessions" was MY observation the week prior. Didn’t think I needed credit for that observation 😁.

I see two-sided Mrs. Cap. One side - I'm going to sit in my place and continue to deflect everything from me. Other side - I'm going to say what is expected of me to show compassion, i.e.,

"I won't run away, I want to be able to support you."

Both of these are absolutely NOT attuned to you. The comments from the MC Mrs. Cap are rote, they aren't specific to you Cap. They could be said about anyone.

Where is the real Mrs. Cap? I don't see her. I see someone hiding and I fear that you are grasping at someone who isn't capable. This MC is going in circles and I wouldn't be surprised if it continues that way. Yes MC holds her accountable in the moment and she knows just what to say to get herself on MC's good side but it never lasts.

Sigh...what does that mean for you Cap? What is next?

Duplicate post

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 6:27 PM, October 9th (Saturday)]

ISSF’s post sounds very accurate to me. Some way some how mr Cap sees his WW as someone who is redeemable. However, looking at this objectively from the outside, it just doesn’t seem that is possible.

Mr Cap is trying to foist remorse on a woman who appears to be incapable of it, outside of superficial measures. Putting faith in the MC holding Mrs. Caps feet to the fire is great, but it still doesn’t change who she is at her core.

Mr Cap periodically sees green shoots and exclaims that his WW is getting it, only for her her to revert back to the norm.

I liken it to Mr. Cap trying to unscrew a tight bolt. He may eventually get the bolt loose but at the cost of stripping it. That’s what the M could, and most likely will, end up resembling at the end of the day - stripped.

Mr Cap is saying to himself if only I could loosen that bolt we can make some headway. What it looks like from the outside however, is that Mrs Cap (the bolt) is very rusty and made of very poor material.

It’s simply a bad bolt. How long does one continue with what appears to be an uphill battle? How much more time? I’ve said this a number of times before, every project in life needs a deadline - work, home, relationships. Open ended projects usually have poor outcomes, especially those whose prospects appear poor both at the outset and mid stream.