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I find this seems to be a reoccurring theme with infidelity in marriages. I remember my ex told me he loved me but was not in love with me. That was during his affair period,. I discovered he was having.

We were married for years, during that time looking back there was so much moodiness. At the time he “was not in love”, he had only been with that person not even a year.

It just got me to thinking are AP that wonderful and the affair so fulfilling in a short period of time, your spouse goes to falling in love with someone and out of love with you. Is that their way to justify continuing in the affair and pushing their spouse away. That not in love seems to be every WS go to and is it their real feelings about their spouse. I also wonder if

as a BS we romanticize their affair and feelings to a higher reality than it really was once the not in love talks come.

When I look back on that time in my life, I realized unbeknownst to me I was up against something I could have never competed with. Years of marriage, responsibilities, familiarities can never compete with a fresh new AP. An AP that is younger who lives alone and has no children. Why would he not have the time of his life, each time they got together. Having every sexual fantasy fulfilled as he said, is easy, without the constraints of children, real life mundane things at times, the things that come in marriage.

Yes...the AP is the one you can tell anything to, no judgement because they don’t know the real you. They are trying to outshine the spouse so you can see why they are the better choice. Everyday is Disneyland whereas home is the kiddie park. So BS are at a disadvantage and don’t even know it.

[This message edited by IWMWWCT1920 at 11:12 PM, November 23rd (Monday)]

They have to say they aren't in love with their spouse otherwise they are just complete jerks.

Are some of them actually not in love with their spouse? Sure, there are many that aren't, but have chosen the chicken shit way out instead of doing the right thing and getting out of the marriage before they start up something new with someone else.

Sorry you have also had to experience the ‘not in love with you’ crap WS say. My WS told me he was in love with his first OW after only knowing her for 3 months and spending only approximately 15 times in her company most of which was in a group setting.

He now realises that as he knew next to nothing factual about the OW that he just convinced himself he was in love to justify his fucking around.

With his last OW he stopped telling me he loved me and stopped writing it in text messages for around 18 months, I didn’t notice as he would respond with an affirmation when I would say it to him or text it to him.

Unfortunately this makes it difficult for me to believe him when he now tells me that he was in love with me during that period. This in turn sets off the thought spiral of well then he couldn’t have loved me during all of the other affairs either.

WS wants me to believe that he had not stopped loving me and now says it was all part of the justification process. It’s just not always that easy to believe as if you love someone you only want good things for them and shouldn’t be or willing to hurt them.

Well, speaking only for myself, it is my real feelings. The affair that I had is over a decade past and I’m not currently having another (no plans to, either!). I am just simply absolutely NOT in love with him.

But I also don’t love him (as in love but not “in love”) either. And I don’t believe he loves me anymore either. We have young children so we are cordial.

Hi,

I am the WS in my situation (though we are now MH), and I can tell you what it was for me. (And I think it's common).

Having an affair creates what I call "affair feelings". You can read a lot about limerence online, but it's really nothing more than a common psychological response that people have in an affair. It's basically a feeling of being high from lots of happy chemicals in the brain. But, they aren't really caused by the other person - it's the secrecy, the doing something you aren't supposed to, risk, stroking your own ego with their assist.

Real love isn't built on the backs of devastating your spouse or you family. People who understand really what love is do not have affairs.

There is another component that others have mentioned as well. To have an affair, you have to minimize, devalue, even dehumanize your own spouse.

Our feelings are often where our effort is as well. WS tend to blame the BS that rather than recognizing that putting that effort into their own marriage would go a long way instead of all the work it takes to go out and have an affair.

I had posted something about the different descriptions that the Greeks had used for "love":

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=648755&HL=45088

My H started his confession on Dday with the words, "I love you like I've never loved anyone else...but I don't think I am in love with you anymore". He also told me that he had "feelings of love" for the adultery co-conspirator...but he wasn't in love with her either .

I can understand my H's feelings after I read about these 4 types of love. My H had the sexual EROS love for the adultery co-conspirator. I believe at that time he had the affectionate STORGE love for me.

I know for a while I romanticized THEIR A. However...as more and more of the truth came out...it was FAR from anything romantic like what WE had gone through when we first got together. People go into A's because they are SELFISH...there is NOTHING good that can come out of selfish people using each other...NOTHING.

My WH never said those exact words to me, not until 3 years later after d-day. He didn’t quite put it like that, but essentially said “I thought we were going to divorce. I didn’t think you loved me, and I didn’t like you very much before and during the A.” Our situation isn’t unique, but has a few differences because it was a really shitty marriage. There wasn’t some rewriting of history, I was a verbally abusive wife, and he was a conflict avoidant asshat. Oil and water in a toxic waste dump.

He told the OW he loved her. I did build it up in my head this romantic and passionate A for a long time. When I looked at the facts, it was actually a really weird (duh) relationship devoid of any type of real love. He never took her out, bought her anything, and only ever saw her at 6:00 am before work. He lied about his last name, and basically every aspect of his life. He used her very much for ego kibbles. Sex was involved, but it wasn’t even about that. For him, it was an escape into a fantasy land where there was this woman who thought he hung the moon, and that made him feel better about his real life being in the toilet. She was obsessed with him and that made him feel good. It didn’t matter she was a trashy woman he’d never have a public relationship with, his ego was getting stroked while his wife was constantly telling him what a disappointment he was. It all boils down to escape, at least that’s what it was for my WH. He didn’t love her, his actions proved that. He obviously didn’t care much for me either, as his actions reflected that as well.

Are some of them actually not in love with their spouse? Sure, there are many that aren't, but have chosen the chicken shit way out instead of doing the right thing and getting out of the marriage before they start up something new with someone else.

Well, according to some here, my ex "did the right thing" in getting out of my marriage. Now she was having an EA at least. Plus the guy was someone she knew before we ever met, apparently she "chose between him and me" at some point, unbeknownst to me. Then she chose him after three kids with me. No PA as far as I know. She's married to him know. I am not sure how "doing the right thing" winds up with a steady stream of insults towards me on the way out the door as well.

I could not "do the right thing." I can't walk away from a marriage like that. There would have to be abuse, complete denial of sex, something manifestly wrong with the situation. Not just because I feel like it.

Which is why I will never marry again. It's a one way street. The people that know they can walk out, have an eventual EA/PA/exit affair, whatever they need to get what they want, they have the advantage. They can be "more committed" at the outset because they have the escape hatch. They can argue harder for their point of view in the marriage because they have the escape hatch. I don't, I can't be that person. So I am done.

IWMWWCT1920,

are AP that wonderful

No, they are in a position that they haven't seen all the warts yet.

and the affair so fulfilling in a short period of time

I have heard that many like not having the responsibilities they have while with a BS and children.

your spouse goes to falling in love with someone and out of love with you

Anyone who has been married for more than a few years realizes what love is and what it isn't.

Living in a fantasy world allows everything to be all rosy without any problems.

They may have fallen out of love with their BS but what they are experiencing with the other person is not love.

I think many of us get the ILYBNILWY speech. I know I did.

So when dday2 occurs and I find out he’s been cheating the whole time while I thought we were reconciling I had enough. I was left w/ no other choice but Divorce him.

And suddenly he wants to reconcile. He’s begging me to reconcile.

So I threw the whole ILYBNILWY speech right in his face. I asked him why he would want to reconcile with me when he swore up and down he didn’t love me the past 6 months. Why does he want to stay married to someone he wasn’t “in love” with?

Yes I can be a very snarky witch with a “b”. I guess working for a trial attorney for 7 years paid off. I forget nothing and used it to my benefit.

Good to see people squirm when they can no longer lie their way out of things.

I turned the tables on this one. On the day I told my STBXW that I was letting go and filing for divorce I said, "I love you, but I'm not in love with YOU. Hell, I don't even like you anymore!"

You should have seen the look on her face.

Countrydirt - thanks for the “woohoo” part of my day.

Great minds think alike - I would have lived to have seen the look on your X’s face.

It’s just a line. Just another line.

WS’s typically (with the exception of some very introspective WS’s who show up and are accountable) lack the kind of empathy and emotional intelligence toolkit to understand what love actually means. What it means to them is defined by their emotional state at a particular time and whatever season of life they are in.

So it’s just a line. They don’t even know themselves.

But in my experience ILYBNILWY is a very real phenomenon for BS’s — ironically. We are the ones who actually experience the permanent settled experience of this actual feeling, but for our WS’s.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:49 AM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

I've never heard a male cheat IRL (except my W's, where I saw what he said to her) claim anything like "love" for the AP, or even say "I don't love my W anymore". This is where the "type" of cheat becomes important, exit affair cheats, yes, they are "in love" with their AP. Cake eaters, the AP has a role to serve (kibbles, sex, etc) and that's what they do. Do you love the chef in your favorite restaurant? Of course not, the entire idea is actually silly; you love what he does for you, but not him. And that's exactly how I hear the men in my life talk about their AP's. They love the extra sex/excitement/whatever, but, love the AP? Come on, let's be adults here, that's not "person love" it's "performance love". And, of course, like my W, I think a lot of people know/understand that (even if they can't articulate it), and hence you wind up with men who can't string two sentences together going all Shakespeare on their APs and women, like my W, who "don't really get much out of sex" going full porn star. Deep down, I think they know it, although, like for my W, I think it was buried deep. She knew it, but didn't want to know it.

But in my experience ILYBNILWY is a very real phenomenon for BS’s — ironically. We are the ones who actually experience the permanent settled experience of this actual feeling, but for our WS’s.

Truth. I swear I lost that on DDay. I felt that bond sever and it never came close to coming back. Seems to be a pretty common thing.

While we the same and rational betrayers know it’s not necessarily “true love” between the cheaters but more of an infatuation, the cheaters truly believe it’s true love.

And that’s where the difference lies. The cheaters cannot distinguish between love, lust, infatuation and the high or thrill they get from a “new relationship “.

They stupidly believe it’s “love”. 💕

The cheaters cannot distinguish between love, lust, infatuation and the high or thrill they get from a “new relationship “.

SOME cheaters, yes; my wife certainly fits in that category. Others have no illusions at all about it, they know they are chasing the high of "lust" or "new sex". I've never heard a man I know say he's having an A for "love" ever. And I've also never seen a man I know act like "love" was even a fleeting feeling for the AP. They (the AP's) have a job as do the male cheats, you f**k me, I tell you whatever you want to hear. They know full well what they are after in the relationship though, and it's not "love", or even an analogue of "love". It's carnal pleasure, something that affairs actually really are "good" at (where they suck at providing any kind of meaningful "love" or relationship).

I really think this comes down to the difference between exit affairs (looking for love) and cake eating affairs (looking for more kibbles/sex/etc).

[This message edited by Rideitout at 10:53 AM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

I got a version of the "I don't love you" speech too.

My WW's AP was definitely in "love" RIO. Wife decided to end A, AP begged her for several weeks to marry him. Stalked her for several more weeks, followed her home from work, drove by our house constantly, non stop called her at work, etc. Really freaked her out. One evening my WW pulled into a busy convenience store and told him to stop bothering her or she would call the police. He asked her to marry him again complete with a ring. She said no and he threw the ring. She helped him find it and told him to never contact her again. He still sat outside her new workplace and she told him again a few days later to go NC. He later ratted her out to me. Sounds like a love story for the ages...

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the EA aspect for men too RIO.

My WW's AP was definitely in "love" RIO. Wife decided to end A, AP begged her for several weeks to marry him.

I'd never argue that it doesn't happen, just that it's rare. Exceedingly rare if the stats on affairs leading to "real" relationships are to be believed. Just like there are, in fact, some women just out for sex, both in an A and in a normal relationship. Happens, yes. Rare? Seems to be, we have a few isolated reports of it happening here, but it's not common.

However, I can tell you, from my personal experience, a lot of men try to play the "love" card as an excuse for the A. "I thought I loved her" sounds a lot better than "She was a hot piece of a**", and, because of that, it's often an early "go to" for the why. Doesn't mean it's always a lie, but it does seem to often be one that's trotted out (similar to "I wasn't after sex" from a female AP, usually true, but not always).