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Since my A was with one of BW's best friends, BW has no interest in patching things up with FOW, who I also worked with. I understand it to an extent, but after all this time? We were all friends in college, St. Elmo's Fire gang.

It makes me sorrowful about the permanent destruction that A's cause. We were all such good friends for so long. What I did split up the group, about a dozen of us, it was never the same.

Just musing!

Are you really no longer wayward? Some of your posts give me pause.

The ex girlfriend and lack of boundaries

BWs and mind movies

And now this... If this woman stabbed your wife would you be missing about the lost if the "gang"? Or would you see her for what she is.

My friend was the OM in WW's affair. If my WW suggested we should all be friends again, how do you think that would turn out?

It makes me sorrowful about the permanent destruction that A's cause.

The passivity here in the language is striking.

Why don't you instead MUSE on how it was you who did that permanent damage, actively, intentionally? With knowledge aforethought?

after all this time?

Have you learned anything?

Also it sounds in the context of your post that you may have broached this with your wife? Please say you didn't. Please say you have at least some self-awareness, some EQ, some level of normal human empathy that you didn't do this.

Just musing! Fiddle dee dee!

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:44 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]

I have known my best friend since we were in the 7th grade. We have been through everything together from both having braces, first boyfriends, first heartbreaks, losing parents, and the fact that she lives 3,500 miles away from me now. I love her like the sister I never had, but if she fucked my husband, she would be dead to me.

Affairs cause permanent damage. None that people entering an affair ever think about before they engage in behavior they shouldn't.

I don't blame your wife one bit.

I understand it to an extent, but after all this time?

Wait... what?! You really believe that any amount of time is going to make your BW ok with the woman who screwed her husband? Have you learned nothing? The OW no longer deserves the friendship. She betrayed her friend in one of the worst possible ways. Are you hoping they’ll make up so you will feel better about what you did?

I understand it to an extent, but after all this time?

I'm afraid you really don't understand it though, or maybe you could help us understand to what "exten" you do understand. To even think that she would or could welcome the AP back into her life is mind-boggling, no matter the history.

I literally cannot wrap my head around the notion. Time is helpful sure, but time doesn't erase the double betrayal.

If her AP was part of the gang, you could be friends with the OM again? You would enjoy spending time with him, play golf or fishing, having a beer out back laughing and reminiscing about the good ol days. You could put it out of your mind that he (your supposed friend) screwed your wife?

Odd, that's a big fat no for me.

There is no length of time that will pass that I will ever desire a friendship with the COW and she was an acquaintance. I can’t fathom if it was my best friend. I truly think you may need to reconsider what you think of the OW. There is probably nobody (besides yourself) who has hurt your wife more than this person. Would you ask her to befriend someone who shot her and left her for dead? That is what this person did to her. Good luck to you, I hope you reconsider your position.

I feel so sorry for your BW. You continuously say you are in R but with each new thread it becomes clear you have no idea what that means and how far from that concept you really are.

I'm not saying you're not living relatively peacefully with your BW but that's not R.

The fact you can even ask this question and mean it shows you have no idea of the depth of your betrayal and the hurt it caused. Sadly I think it also shows your BW doesn't trust you enough to show you her fears.

She stopped being your wife’s friend the moment she inserted herself into the marriage.

Friends don’t betray one another. They don’t lie and put your health at risk. They just don’t.

Our time on earth is finite- why waste it on people who have proven that they are okay about being cruel? Especially when your wife could find any number of faithful, kind, fun friends who wouldn’t hurt her. ¯\_(ツ_/¯ I don’t see the point.

Our “gang” broke up because of the affair too. I was very close with the OW. No amount of time would make me waste energy on someone who has done nothing to restore herself in my eyes. My husband worked for a chance with me, she has not. And frankly, there’s no payout for me if she did. 😅

My advice- make new friends, ones with good boundaries who aren’t selfish assholes. It’s way better!

Sorry to trigger anyone, I think I made it clear that that I brought destruction to group of friends we all were for so many years. I'm not happy about it. I was just mourning the loss of all friendships in the pre-A life. My W's AP was/is in fact a friend of mine, and we have since tried to put it behind us and we are friendly. It's not perfect but I have got to a point of acceptance.

Im sorry I don't think exactly the way everyone else does. I do believe in forgiveness and trying to move on, and I am all about keeping boundaries. I know I fucked up and won't ever fuckup again, but I do get sad at all that I/we lost from our A's. And to be clear I'm a former WH, and will be for the rest of my days. I would never again betray the trust we've built back after our bad choices.

That makes sense then, why you can entertain the thought of mending the relationship with the AP after such an heinous act of betrayal. But because you are able to do it, doesn't lend reason that your wife could.

I am sorry that you are mourning that loss, I to an extent understand. And perhaps it would be best to grieve and move on from that.

As a madhatter, I can see why you thought your spouse would react to an affair and its aftermath the same way that you did. This is doubly true if you were the BS first. If you managed to get past it and stay friends with the OM, you figured that even if you and your AP got caught, you'd do your time in the penalty box until your wife came around.

It's understandable, but it's flawed reasoning. You're fond of pointing out ways in which SI is wrong about universalities, and then you made an invalid assumption about universal recovery. Your wife is not wrong to insist on NC forever, or to refuse to forgive her friend for three years of fucking her husband behind her back. By your own account, it was a love affair that you're still not entirely over. You're here "musing" because you miss AP and think it's unnecessary to have her eliminated from your life. How the hell is your wife supposed to forgive when you can't forget?

When my sons died over twenty years ago, I was completely devastated. I needed to process constantly, to talk about it almost nonstop. My H couldn't take that. He needed to put the pain on a shelf and get back to work, then let it out a bit at a time, so it didn't swamp him. We were badly matched in our stages and methods of grieving. Thank God we finally figured that out and designed coping strategies. I agreed to talk to other people as much as possible to avoid flooding him, and he agreed that if I really needed him specifically, he would be there and not push me away. If I had resented his apparent lack of grief, or he had dismissed my suffering as an overreaction, we might have destroyed our marriage.

Honestly, MyAndI, you keep writing very triggery posts and then expressing surprise that they trigger people. I don't know if you're pushing buttons on purpose or genuinely don't understand the common shape of human emotion after betrayal. All I can do is validate your wife. It seems to me that the arrival of your new neighbor is pulling back the rug and exposing how much has been swept underneath.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:20 AM, October 16th (Friday)]

A few things I've noticed about your posts..

You seem to think that time is a magical healer. I am wondering how much work you have done on yourself to no longer be wayward,or do you think time is all that was/is needed.

You also seem to think that anyone who opposes what you say must have been triggered. You don't seem to consider that your way of thinking is wrong,it must be everyone else. Several of the comments came from women who are years out from dday,with a remorseful WS who did the work,and are happily reconciled not brand new BS who would be triggered.

You're right. Not everyone thinks the way you do. And that includes your wife. She is not you. She is allowed her own feelings and thoughts. And if she no longer wants anything to do with the woman who had an affair with her husband, that's normal.

You may be able to be friends with her AP, because it was a much shorter affair than yours. And, maybe there were years in which the OW pretended to be her friend, came into her house, etc, while she was having an affair with her husband. Thats not a friend. Not even close.

BTW, I am not triggered. I'm 11 years out, reconciled, and content with my life.

It might help if you gave us your story. How it started, how long it lasted,how you were caught, and when dday was. Thus far, when asked specific questions, you have been extremely vague.

DUDE! Are you kidding me? You need to check yourself but quick.

I understand it to an extent, but after all this time?

YES after all this fu*king time. Until the end of time. Do you not get it? You can NEVER be in any contact of any kind ever again. And in this BS perspective that includes even a fleeting thought.

Boom! Done. Blown to smithereens. Burned to a crisp.

I'm sorry I don't think exactly the way everyone else does

With respect, this also sounds like a lame ass excuse. Much like a toddler or teenager wailing "it's not my faaaauuuuulllllt" when getting caught with hand in cookie jar of breaking curfew.

With all sincerity - I ask you how can we help you if you won't help yourself. I would suggest that with comments like the above a stop sign might be a good place to start.

PS - reread what strugglebus wrote. A few times over.

BSR,

no lingering feelings for OW.

The Truth is I love my wife more than anything in this world, but it doesn't make the way I felt about OW null and void.

This is a quote from you.

And you wonder why your wife can't be friends with the OW?

No lingering feelings.

Maybe instead of pondering on how actions have consequences, you should stop dwelling in the past and move forward to making friends that are healthy for your marriage.

Hell Fire, you're write!!!! even if my feelings are way in the past tense, it can dig into my wife. I have to be more considerate. Thanks for pointing that out.

My wife has ZERO feelings for her OM, but then doesn't want me being friends with him or mixing in the same circles, maybe that should be a clue to me. Did I mention I live in a small town?

So, I'm guessing here, but it sounds like your wife had a 6 month affair with somebody she didn't have a real connection with, and you had a 3 year affair with one of her very good friends and even talked about divorcing your wife and marrying your

Ap (double betrayal) and you wonder why she isn't over your affair like you were able to get over hers?

I believe in forgiveness and trying to move on

Hey me too! But forgiving someone and moving on doesn’t mean you need to be friends with the person who harmed you. I’ve forgiven my rapist too but I’m not going to invite him over to play dominoes.

There are lots of humans on earth and the internet makes the amount of people available for friendship limitless. No need to waste time on people who have low morals. It’s best to surround yourself with people of the kind of character you wish to have. Your wife seems like she has no interest in being around people who enabled her cheating and doesn’t want you to be around them either. It’s a pretty common tactic when you are trying to stay clean from drugs and drinking and also in affairs.

[This message edited by strugglebus at 2:26 PM, October 16th (Friday)]