2timesunfaithful posted 11/19/2019 08:06 AM

I saw this on the news. My apologies it took so long, I travel for work every week, and work Saturdays, so I have some free time today and finally got around to it. I thought if my BS wanted me to do this, I would. It would suck; it would be humiliating. BS's are privately humiliated by our affairs. If this is what your BS needed to heal, would you agree to this?

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The story revolves around an Indonesian man who brought forth a law, only to be punished by his own law for having an affair. This is not meant to bring up religion, only if a WS would agree as atonement. I imagine some BS, might stand up and cheer for their un-remorseful waywards. Others might see see this as grandstanding. I tried to imagine how to show how remorseful a WS could be.

It's draconian, but at least the world knows what you are. And you would undeniably be held accountable and own your actions.

Thoughts?

[This message edited by 2timesunfaithful at 8:10 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Justsomelady posted 11/19/2019 08:13 AM

.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:38 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

hikingout posted 11/19/2019 08:33 AM

Hmmm. It's interesting.

On one hand, I very much value the gift H has given me. And, to take a caning really wouldn't be something that would cause any permanent damage, if it would magically provide some sort of atonement or satisfaction, I think I would give it a try.

But, I am not sure that atonement would provide the notes needed for the BS - and I am not sure that's the type of thing that makes me a better person or spouse for my H.

One of the things I believe that makes our R work is that my H, through his actions of grace, has inspired me to become a better person. It's shown me how much I don't deserve him. I don't actually believe he would want me to take a caning. And, whether it's hypocritical of me or not (I believe it probably is), if he wanted that for me I would see a dark side of him he hasn't shown to me the entire time we've been married, including the Post A days. I am in awe the man has an emotional maturity and strength that I can not even fathom. I see him as a pretty damned healthy human being and having that image of what that looks like helped me be a better parent, person, employee, etc over the years - and in the recent ones realize the ways I failed him as a wife.

The imbalance in our relationship is about me coming up to his level, not him sinking down to mine. If it helped him, I would still do it. I don't think that there is any question. But, I can't say it wouldn't make me feel he wasn't the man I believe him to be. And, maybe there is the punishment as I have not been the woman he believed me to be. But, not being that woman is a punishment in itself, so I would think that in many ways it would be a greater punishment to him rather than something he rejoiced in.

I wish my answer was more pure of heart, but it isn't. I am sure some of this is my own reaction towards public violence and seeing my husband as someone who's always been my protector. That's separate from whether I deserve it or not. It's who he is as a person, and I honestly think that it would compromise us both.

Hallmack posted 11/19/2019 08:44 AM

Justsomelady,

So you’re allowed to humiliate your BS in ways you can’t even begin to understand but if the tables were turned you no longer think you would have a relationship worth saving? Its hilarious to the way WS think. Engaging in an affair is an emotional flogging. I’ve been beaten several times in my life. I would gladly and happily stand up on a stage and take a beating over the pain the affair has caused me. Infidelity is the worst pain I’ve ever experienced in my life and is abuse. Am I saying I want my wife to take a flogging? Hell no and it’s not even something I would consider but the thought that some think that would just be a line that is so extreme it should end a marriage while they themselves have engaged is an affair is absurd.

The double standards and the whole I’m allowed to do as I please but don’t you dare hurt me is a prime example of wayward bullshit. It’s only through grace that once again you can’t even begin to understand that your BS is capable of still loving you.

To all WS, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not worth having a relationship with. If your relationship is now something you value and appreciate then that all of you should be thankful and grateful that a BS can look past the immense pain you have caused them to still see you as someone who they love.

Skadu posted 11/19/2019 08:48 AM

No stop sign.

A bit tongue-in-cheek but I would assume with the amount of WSs who go full FetLife this wouldn't be that effective as a deterrent.

But on a serious note if you want a better understanding of the Dynamics read "so you've been publicly shamed" by Jon Ronson. I read it around the time of the 2016 election because public shaming was all the rage... Still is.

[This message edited by Skadu at 8:48 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

sickofsurviving posted 11/19/2019 08:51 AM

Hitting anyone is wrong. For any reason.

However, cheating should be a crime. The betrayed should have legal recourse. There are so many that get cheated on, then lose at least half of everything. Get stuck paying alimony. While, as usual, the cheater is the only one who benefits.

There should be legal recourse for the betrayed against the co-cheater. At the very least, it would allow the betrayed access to victims compensation. That fund helps with everything from therapy to lodging.

destroyed1 posted 11/19/2019 09:01 AM

You're complaining about 28 smacks with a cane? are you fucking kidding me?

This is nothing compared to the pain and humiliation that your betrayed spouse has felt on a daily basis. NOTHING!

Cheating on your spouse should be a criminal offense. Time should be served in jail, money should be paid to the victims and if you wanted to allow the victim to cane the attackers ..... well, I wouldnt have a single problem with that at all.

I say we should make it a fucking sport. Televise it and it is quite likely that people might think more than twice before jumping into an affair.

It can be like a combo between America's got talent and WWE.

Interview the victim and allow them to talk of the offense and then grab your fucking popcorn folks and let the fun begin!

Do to the criminals just as the victims were done.

First, we will blindfold them, so they cant see whats going on. Then we will tie their hands, just as they did to their victims.

Then the beatings will begin.

When the criminals have had enough and are begging for mercy, we will promise to never do it again ... When they let their guard down, we give them a few more lashes .... just because I'm selfish and what the heck ... it's fun.

I'm claiming royalties on this right now. I wonder who our sponsors would be?

LifeDestroyer posted 11/19/2019 09:20 AM

If somehow this would heal my BH, then yes I would. While it would hurt like hell, if my new scars would somehow heal his, then I would do it in a heartbeat. I could learn to become a stomach sleeper.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/19/2019 09:27 AM

LD,

Or instead you could just let the fleas keep biting your ankles. LOL.

landclark posted 11/19/2019 09:31 AM

I find this attitude of "Well, it would show me my BS isn't who I thought they were." kind of funny. I feel like at the core, I'm still the same person I was before the A, BUT, the A can change a person. For instance, I have anger I didn't have before. I slapped my husband when I found out he kissed somebody and lied about it, something I wouldn't have done before. I am way more untrusting than I was before, and so on.

So now because his actions have caused some of my reactions and has changed my way of thinking, I am now not the person he married and should be concerned about what he thinks of me now? Frankly, F' that. The person you guys married wasn't good enough for you, but despite your betrayal, we're supposed to still be that person? Really?

And no, I'm not a fan of flogging, or public humiliation. At the end of the day, it doesn't actually heal anything. It's a temporary bandaid on a gushing wound. But, I do find it funny that the man in the article advocated for it, and then had to take his own punishment. Some would call that karma.

LifeDestroyer posted 11/19/2019 09:35 AM

MrClean, thankfully they haven't had their lunch at all, but I always feel like they're on me. It's like when one student has lice, you freak out at any feeling you have on your head.

hikingout posted 11/19/2019 11:05 AM

I find this attitude of "Well, it would show me my BS isn't who I thought they were." kind of funny. I feel like at the core, I'm still the same person I was before the A, BUT, the A can change a person. For instance, I have anger I didn't have before. I slapped my husband when I found out he kissed somebody and lied about it, something I wouldn't have done before. I am way more untrusting than I was before, and so on.

I do fully recognize that. What I mean by it is he to me is pristine, whilst I am the one who isn't. I was meaning to indicate that lowering himself would possibly be more hurtful to him. And, that by being who he is he inspires me to be better. Being who he is wouldn't include seeing his wife caned in public, it would completely surprise me that he would take satisfaction of it, and it would change to me who I believe him to be. Doesn't mean I still wouldn't go on with him. I didn't mean that in an insulting way, I meant it in an exalting way. I hope that makes sense. He isn't a man who would want to see a physical penance, and if he were yes that would change my view of him to some degree. As would an RA or those other things. He was angry, he said hurtful things, we went on the roller coaster, none of that changed who he was to me - I did that to him. But, publically caning? It would mean something different I think.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:08 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

66charger posted 11/19/2019 11:10 AM

I could not imagine watching someone strike my XWS. How the hell could I explain that to my daughter?

[This message edited by 66charger at 2:47 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Oldwounds posted 11/19/2019 11:25 AM

**posting as a member**

I do know the pain experienced by a WS is vastly different than a BS. I think being betrayed by a person we love caused some of the most intense emotional trauma I'll likely ever experience (and this from someone who watched his father obliterated and lost by a fast moving form of cancer over an 18-month span).

That said, if a WS has lowered their own personal values and standards at all, then they are already experiencing some level of humiliation.

Getting beaten in public doesn't balance the scale of injustice.

Nothing will ever make it 'even.'

That's why I think this website works as well as it does. Because we're all trying to survive it -- not live in it forever, or punish people for their poor choices or advocate for revenge.

I think the goals are simple -- get clear of infidelity and figure out how to best heal and move on.

leavingorbit posted 11/19/2019 11:26 AM

It’s difficult. My impulse is to say, yes, of course I would do this. There’s a few different reasons, and I don’t think they’re any of them very good.

Expecting my husband to be a saint in response to my actions is entitled as hell, IMO. To me, having expectations of anyone on any level is entitled. This is something that my husband agrees with. I don’t think that means it’s some constant state of zen - it takes work to move through entitlement, and pain is a breeding ground for entitlement.

I feel like a healthy middle ground for me would be to have compassion for the desire and the understanding that it fixes nothing. I feel like my impulse to agree is shame-based. It keeps me saying, aw, I’m worth nothing, he’s good, I’m bad. Wearing sackcloth and ashes doesn’t help. Insisting that I’m “better than that” doesn’t help, either. Getting whooped with a rattan cane leaves scars, causes nerve damage, and just solves nothing, IMO. It doesn’t tackle my whys and doesn’t help my BS develop the healthy understanding that my crap isn’t his problem. However, reading him that lesson in a self-righteous way didn’t help, either. Why would he trust my judgment? I was dishonest. He had to want to heal, regardless: for himself, not for me.

Wanting me to be caned may reveal some processing that my husband could benefit from attempting. Being betrayed doesn’t mean someone is automatically equipped with healthy coping mechanisms. I don’t believe it equates freedom from codependency or the comprehension that we are responsible for our own happiness. It can seem fantastically unfair to dig for that lesson and revenge can seem appealing. It’s a distraction, IMO. Depending on someone else to do that for me used to be a very attractive thought... sounds awfully familiar. I can empathize.

YMMV.

Justsomelady posted 11/19/2019 11:44 AM

.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 11:44 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

landclark posted 11/19/2019 12:38 PM

I do fully recognize that. What I mean by it is he to me is pristine, whilst I am the one who isn't. I was meaning to indicate that lowering himself would possibly be more hurtful to him. And, that by being who he is he inspires me to be better.

That seems like a lot of pressure, honestly.

I think I get what you're saying, Hiking. It's really hard to have this discussion when the example given is about actual physical violence. I think most of us can agree that is not actually ok, and thinking somebody may deserve that for their actions, and actually carrying it out, are two very different things.

Taking out actual physical violence though and back to the idea though that the BS still needs to be the person that they were before cheating, that's where I take issue. For example, my WH flirted with women at work, and ended up having a year long EA with a particular coworker, that ended in at least making out once (not convinced more didn't happen). The company has a policy of reporting non-working relationships to HR, which technically he should have had to do. I didn't make him do that. It would have been a form of public humiliation, in my opinion. Now, if he continues to "dip his pen in company ink", I will make him report it because honestly, I'm done being played. Would he then get to sit there and judge me as being not the person he married because I wouldn't have done that before? I don't think so.

That's the only point I'm trying to make.

[This message edited by landclark at 12:39 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 11/19/2019 13:01 PM

That seems like a lot of pressure, honestly.
I think I get what you're saying, Hiking. It's really hard to have this discussion when the example given is about actual physical violence. I think most of us can agree that is not actually ok, and thinking somebody may deserve that for their actions, and actually carrying it out, are two very different things.

Oh, I don't mean it that way. H acted in a lot of ways I never saw before, and still does today. I don't hold that against any standard at all. I fully recognize that I traumatized him, I caused those things in him.

I think that it is in fact the thing we are talking about is extreme - public caning? Someone who would want their spouse to go through that would be a very different person than who we thought we were married to. That's just a fact. Way different than a cussing, or a cold shoulder, or even a slap that you gave your husband. A divorce, a separation, etc. These are all understandable. I am not responding to any of that. I am responding to the idea being raised of a caning, and by the way, I am not ruling out that he still wouldn't get a yes from me. It's just the fact he would want something that extreme would make me look at him differently because it's extreme violence. I don't think that's unfair, he certainly looks at me differently after the A as well, as would be normal. I don't think a spouse who can watch you be caned can love you any more than a spouse who cheated on you can love you while doing that.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:03 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 11/19/2019 13:42 PM

If my H wanted to see me publicly whipped for cheating, I would see that as evidence that I had irretrievably broken the marriage. I would be devastated that I had done something that turned him into that person. But no, I would not voluntarily submit to it. I would not teach my children that you should atone for terrible decisions by allowing someone to beat you while others look on and cheer. I've set a bad example for them once already, and once is more than enough.

FamilyMan75 posted 11/19/2019 19:53 PM

Absolutely Not!