"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

EvolvingSoul posted 10/29/2019 19:06 PM

Hi you all,

This is a repost (with permission) of a response by Chaos to a member who was wondering what to do now that their BS was questioning their entire relationship, whether the WS actually ever loved them, whether they were always disposable, etc. The WS's question was "how do you convince your BS of something you can't prove?"

I think Chaos's advice is so good that I didn't want to let it slip down the forum list and disappear, so here it is in a form that can be bumped up when needed. Thank you Chaos!

I struggle with the same. And there is not one thing that my WH could say or do to change that unless it involved a time machine.
But...what you CAN do is focus on what you can prove. And that takes consistency. Proven behavior over time.

You can also show empathy, patience, understanding and love. You can answer all of his questions. Over and over and over and over. With patience. And understanding.

You can be open, honest and transparent.

You can act like his grace is the greatest gift bestowed upon you.

You can dig deep into your whys. Not the surface whys. But the ones that reside in that deep dark place you don't want to delve into.

You can go to IC and not act like you resent it. While confidential, you can share any profound revelation with him.

You can share with him any insights or revelations you have. Sometimes sharing something simple like how much you enjoy sitting around a firepit sipping cider on a chilly evening with him.

You can learn what he needs and when. When to give the hug if you notice him having a rough patch vs when to give him space.

You can bite your tongue. The snide remarks that may slip out are barbs he needs to expel. Eventually he will only think them. And even those thoughts diminish. When one slips, you can look him in the eye and say "I'm sorry" and sincerely repeat often.

You can try to put yourself in his shoes. Ask yourself [and be honest] if roles were reversed - what would you be doing?

numb&dumb posted 11/1/2019 10:00 AM

Yes !

Sage advice indeed.

Shehawk posted 11/2/2019 06:32 AM

wow...no words!
#chaos

EvolvingSoul posted 12/10/2019 09:25 AM

Bumping for Laylahubby1234.

Layla1234hubby posted 12/10/2019 15:11 PM

Thank you Evo, this helps.

pinkpggy posted 12/10/2019 15:16 PM

I guess my follow up question to this (I read the original post and it resonated with me) is what if you do all this and its not enough? Then what?

ThisIsSoLonely posted 12/10/2019 15:30 PM

what if you do all this and its not enough? Then what?

Answer:

Keep doing it anyway. Keep talking to them and seeing what else they may want/need. And know and accept that it may not, ever, be enough anyway.

IHatePickingName posted 12/10/2019 18:02 PM

Answer:

Keep doing it anyway. Keep talking to them and seeing what else they may want/need. And know and accept that it may not, ever, be enough anyway

That. Every single word of that.

pinkpggy posted 12/10/2019 21:02 PM

I guess I'm stuck on the "may never be enough". Who (BS or WS) wants that? It doesn't seem like any way to live. And that's like being "reconciled enough" but not completely. I don't think there is any way for a BS to be all in ever again.

IHatePickingName posted 12/11/2019 03:04 AM

If i discovered that it would never be enough, then i would divorce my WH. I dont think it is meant to imply that either party has to settle for a marriage where reconciliation is impossible (although obviously many do). The larger point is that WS are not entitled to a second chance at all, and infidelity is a legitimate dealbreaker. Even if you do everything perfectly after.

You are correct that we will never again have blind trust in our WS. If you believe that anything less than that is failure, then yes, it is an impossible goal. But blind faith wasnt a good idea even the first time around.

What i can tell you is that consistent, sincere effort does a lot to calm our frazzled nerves and to heal our wounded souls. I have seen that in my own life for 5 months now and am actually shocked at times how much it has helped me to have HIM all in. He would tell you (because he has told me) that the effort has been well worth it, even if i do decide the relationship cant be rebuilt.

I read that statement as one of letting go of the goal. Do all the advice because it is what helps a BS heal the best, even if it ultimately cant save the marriage.

IHatePickingName posted 12/11/2019 03:04 AM

Double post

[This message edited by IHatePickingName at 3:04 AM, December 11th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

forgettableDad posted 12/11/2019 04:55 AM

Those are all the ingredients of a healthy relationship. For both partners.

Hallmack posted 12/11/2019 06:47 AM

I guess my follow up question to this (I read the original post and it resonated with me) is what if you do all this and its not enough? Then what?

What I’ve noticed is that in my situation my wife will think she is doing everything she can and following all the advice but the reality is that she isn’t. Just my perspective as a BS

pinkpggy posted 12/11/2019 11:39 AM

Hallmack- can you elaborate on what you feel she isn't doing right?

emergent8 posted 12/11/2019 12:10 PM

Great post and good advice, Evolving Soul/Chaos.

Proven, consistent behavior over time. Over and over and over again. No matter what I threw at him. That is what allowed me to start feeling safe again. That is was what allowed me to start trusting again and to jump back with both feet. This didn't come all at once. It took a long time of watching him demonstrate to me over and over again that HE was all in before I was willing to shuffle closer to that point.

I don't think there is any way for a BS to be all in ever again.

Pink - I can honestly say that I'm all in again. For me, I decided that I only wanted to R if it meant that I could eventually be all in. I'm not sure when it was that I got here, but here I am. I refuse to be in a marriage where I forever have one foot out the door. This doesn't mean that I'm 100% healed. I certainly still have scars. I probably always will.

emergent8 posted 12/11/2019 12:20 PM

What I’ve noticed is that in my situation my wife will think she is doing everything she can and following all the advice but the reality is that she isn’t. Just my perspective as a BS

Hallmack - this is still EARLY days for you. When I was at your stage, I certainly didn't FEEL like my husband was doing enough - even if I couldn't think of what else he should be doing. I was just hurt and there was nothing in the world that would make me feel better. When he faltered, and I told him what he was doing wrong though, he did his best to apologize, fix it and do better next time. I'm not saying that is what is going on with you - if your wife is doing everything she can and everything you need or not. Only you can know that.

DoinBettr posted 12/11/2019 14:34 PM

You can be open, honest and transparent.

This I have seen as the toughest for most WS.
Open, honest, and transparent is tough.
People for some reason really think they need privacy and freedom.
Why not discuss things and ask your spouses opinion?
Your spouse has seen you at your most vulnerable. Going physical here, pooping. So why are you worried when they can track where you are going after work?
Or why not share those deep dark thoughts? (Your journal or texts to your friend)
Aren't you going to discuss those with the your partner? That openness is what you want right?

Just something I have seen with people wanting private journals, no-tracking capability, and private conversations. Then they get mad when they are questioned about why they aren't trusted when they fight trust at all cost.
Just my observation. BS seem to be doing it too I have read, but that is sometimes because they don't know the truth and fear relapses.

hikingout posted 12/11/2019 14:54 PM

Your spouse has seen you at your most vulnerable. Going physical here, pooping. So why are you worried when they can track where you are going after work?

I am not disagreeing with the open and honest part. But, pooping? No. No. No. Leave a little mystery here. I have been married well over 20 years we don't see each other pooping. There is no need for any of that. LOL Sorry, I couldn't help but comment.

I guess my follow up question to this (I read the original post and it resonated with me) is what if you do all this and its not enough? Then what?

I wish I had an answer for you Pink. It seems to me from your posts, that maybe your H had some unhealthy tendencies prior to the A that were exacerbated by the A?

For R to ever work, WS has to heal, BS has to heal, then you heal the relationship. In this case, it seems like you feel like you have healed, but your H really hasn't. He may not know how, or he may really have no motivation towards it. Hard to tell.

It seems like you get to the end of your rope and then you tie a knot and hang on. Have you considered going back to IC to evaluate that?

I do believe a BS can be all in again, but it's more of a conscious choice than it ever was in the past. In many ways, your husband has retreated into some unhealthy coping mechanisms, I don't think until that can stop he will make an conscious decision to be all in because it leaves him without the entitlement to continue to drink or cope in the ways that aren't serving him well.

I say that with a caring heart, Pink.

Hallmack posted 12/11/2019 16:22 PM

Hallmack- can you elaborate on what you feel she isn't doing right?

Basically almost all of the advice from the post that started this thread. Chaos made that post in response to one of my wife’s threads. About a month after I got major trickle truth. So open honest transparency was out the window.

I feel like she struggles with empathy and patience as well. I’m pretty sure she understands the pain I’m in. I feel like a lot of the time her own pain and feelings still come first.

DoinBettr posted 12/11/2019 17:21 PM

But, pooping? No. No. No. Leave a little mystery here. I have been married well over 20 years we don't see each other pooping.

An example was pooping. We all feel so vulnerable when we drop a deuce.
BTW - You have kids with your H. My friend the delivery nurse said (not quoting her) like 99% of women poop a little during natural child birth. You are told to push and the baby rolls across the colon as it exits. So your H might have seen you.
Just an FYI. Also, wait until you get older and incontinent. There is a whole aisle for adult diapers just like tampons, so think about it.