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Is there a place for people like me?

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S0leil posted 9/7/2019 09:41 AM

I am a new member but have lurked here and on a few other marriage and infidelity forums for a long time. I have learned a lot reading here but many of the posts in the last week or so have really resonated deeply with me because for the first time that I can recall in all of my time reading here there are three of us posting in the same time frame who are wayward partners who were all raped by our AP. Iím sure there are other betrayeds and waywards here who have also experienced rape in their lifetimes, but I still think being raped by the AP creates a different dynamic. So with that in mind, I am asking if anyone knows of any resources (a forum, a virtual support group, some books, a blog) that I could check out that can address the unique issues that someone like myself (and maybe if it would help them too, the other waywards currently in similar situations) face.

Iím going to be blunt. I do not fully subscribe to the ďyou were raped and youíre a victim and itís not your faultĒ mentality. I do believe it was not my fault that I was raped. I donít believe that means that somehow I am supposed to accept that NOTHING in the situation was my fault. Humans have to take responsibility for their actions. I donít want a blanket excuse for my behavior and I donít want exoneration merely because I was raped. Number one, if I hadnít been there he couldnít have raped me, so to me that part (being there) IS my fault even if the actual drugging and raping is not my fault. Number two, I went back and fucked the AP after the rape several times and one of the times I even initiated the sex. It wasnít until later that I found out that he drugged me more than just the first time (but with something that wasnít as strong as the first time he drugged me). But at least one of the times I met up with the AP with the intent to fuck (in my mind even though I hadnít indicated as such aloud). So even though my IC says that sex under the influence and without consent is also rape, I personally canít classify those other times as rape because I was a willing participant at least once and maybe more than once. Perhaps the reason I was a willing participant is not a good reason (not in a healthy mental state because I had not dealt with the trauma of the AP raping me and many previous instances of rape), but reason aside, whether or not it was a psychologically sound choice it is a choice that I made and I own it. And even sneaking around behind my BHís back to see the AP at all was being unfaithful and I chose to sneak around so even if we take rape out of the entire equation I consider it a betrayal and cheating period. Because of this, I want something deeper than being told to deal with and heal from being raped. I think I do need to do those things but I also need to actively work on repairing the damage I have done to my BH and my marriage and my own self. I donít want the fact that I was raped to be any reason to get out of my responsibilities to fix what I fucked up. Thatís how it feels to me when the rape becomes more the focus than the A itself. It feels like the A and my BHís pain is somehow second to the rape and I WILL NOT let my BH be second to anything or anyone ever again. Not even rape is reason enough not to center his needs and his pain. I choose to prioritize his pain over mine because he deserves to be regarded as first. Itís the least I can do given how he was disregarded during my A.

My second concern might be contradictory to the first one. I want to do the work and I donít care if I have to get my ass kicked in the process, but some of the conventional wisdom doesnít seem to be relevant to my situation. I am not pining for the AP and I donít have fond memories. I am not breaking NC. I did lie to my BH and trickle truth in the beginning but never since. We have done the polygraph and the VAR stuff and everything has been legit. We did STD testing and everything tested negative. Weíre in therapy. I guess I just donít know to do next. I donít know where to find help that can speak to my situation.

oldtruck posted 9/7/2019 10:52 AM

You owned what you have done.

You are doing the work needed to recover.

I think you lose sight that recovery is a two to
five year job.

S0leil posted 9/7/2019 11:44 AM

What else can I be doing to help us during this two to five year period? I donít want to be complacent. I need to do what I can.

JBWD posted 9/7/2019 12:05 PM

DaddyDom posted some thoughts on ways to approach yourself in a recent thread- The questions he suggests asking yourself are, I believe, good ones to ground yourself as time marches on and you find yourself ďin the middleĒ- Canít see the beginning, canít see the end.

Constant feedback from BS- ďAre you getting what you need/want from me?Ē Openness and courage- ďHow are you today?Ē

Balance that with personal growth: I have a vast amount of time to work on me, and it comes in fits and starts, but the payoff is remarkable- I am NOWHERE NEAR the middle of anything and already struggle with lapsing into old habits- The hubris of a WS is a real threat to enduring change IMO... And I think my increasing awareness of that hubris is the largest thing that speaks to my progress.

QuietDan posted 9/7/2019 12:32 PM

Just a few thoughts and observations.
The 2 to 5 year time line to recovery, is more like a generalized rule of thumb for reaching the point that the day to day relationship interactions aren't directly influenced by the BS struggling with affair related thoughts and emotions.
In many ways, it is like dealing with a catastrophic accident that severed a limb.
Things are probably healed over for the most part, and some fundamental day to day coping skills have been developed. Still, there will always be moments of difficulty and pain that are directly related to the relationship and emotional injuries. Old wounds have a tendency to ache and hurt when the weather changes. Some wounds seem to never really toughen up and remain for ever sensitive. Depending on whether it was properly cleaned out or not, there is always a chance that whatever was trapped in the wound and scared over, could be the trigger for a serious infection sometime in the future. Sometimes, all it takes is getting bumped in the wrong place to trigger a relationship ending infection.

What you can do in the meantime it continue to work on yourself to be a safe partner. Be on your guard for future complacency. Life long habits, thinking patterns, and coping skills, good or bad, have a tendency to return and creep back into day to day life, once things settle down a bit in a few years.
There some fundamental aspects to everyone of us that we have to learn to live with and find ways to managed in healthy and non destructive ways.

sisoon posted 9/8/2019 13:23 PM

Gently, you heal you. You can't heal your H. The best you can do for him are things like asking him what he wants, asking him if he wants something you want to give, offering emotional support, and asking for what you want. (That last one comes from my belief that people need to give and receive.)

For yourself ... do you have a good IC, one experienced in helping people recover from being raped?

Itsallmyfault posted 9/8/2019 14:44 PM

Hey S0leil,

It was great to read your comment on my first post. To hear someone who was like me, had a similar story to mine. Reacted the same way I did. I agree being raped by AP does create a unique dynamic of the A. I have actually spent time researching similar stories to mine, people who have wrote about their own personal experience, rape, affair with rapist, and betrayal, found these through google, twitter, it seems a common coping mechanism as Ive found countless stories like yours, like mine. My IC even said she had heard my story before many times, Its helpful looking into myself, into WHY I did what I did, spending time talking through with my IC that I've just started with. I get the "why" - taking back control on something that was taken from you without your consent. But I know it was selfish of me that I dealt with it that way and hurt and betrayed my life partner in the process. I wish there was a way I could go back, and get help immediately. Talking to someone immediately. But i didn't. So now, I will rebuild that relationship I destroyed. I know you feel the same.
I also don't believe that because of what happened to us we are supposed to just be a victim to our trauma and our actions are blameless. I hate what I did. I optionally chose to sleep with him again. I did that. I chose to put AP ahead of my partner, that was my decision. most of the time I was drunk to do it, but that was because I didn't have any connection or attraction to him and it helped me get through it. I was drunk because I knew what I was about to do before I started drinking. I went into it with my eyes wide open. I didn't say no or put a stop to it. I told my partner I was working late or hanging out with the girls. I did that. I broke him and ruined his life with my actions. I'm glad for starting to understand WHY i did it, how I probably suffered/still suffer with PTSD and I'd got myself stuck on the idea of getting power back from this man who controlled nearly every aspect of my life before he had even raped me. But just because I understand my actions more, it doesn't make me hate it any less, regret it any less, and feel like I would trade my life if it would make my ex hurt less for what I did to him.

But I can't change it. You can't either. The best thing you can do is keep working hard to recovering for yourself, and for your husband. Try to heal him in the ways you are doing, make him feel safe with you.

If you do find any resources for us rAPe victims and betrayers, please let me know. But i'd also like to offer out personal support if you need it, from someone who can relate to your story. I've lost my partner, he's already told me he doesn't think it's going to work long term because he can't forget what I did to him. He's moved out of our family home. I broke him and I can't take it back, I don't know if I'll get him back now. But I'll always try, and hope to win him back. It feels like he's not fully made his mind up, But that's his choice, and if he did want me back in his life, I know that's something i don't deserve and take that gift of another chance like a gift of life itself.

As for you. I hope you are still taking the time for yourself, to fix yourself from your trauma. I know it's something you don't get over, but I hope you have help and support you need to deal with it healthily and heal yourself. I see you say the A and getting your M back on track is your #1 priority, but you also need to fix you, for yourself, and for him.

Big hugs to you.

DoinBettr posted 9/9/2019 15:17 PM

Sorry. I shouldn't have read the "We're all abusers" thread prior to typing that out. It was a bit harsher as a 2x4 then I meant.
The parts about you still thinking wayward still stand.
Too much of your focus is on losing the money/job and AP/Boss.
This is a typical defense mechanism over focusing on your "Whys". It is easy to vilify the AP, but he isn't going to be punished. You need to think like a judge who will never be able to convict him based on the return trips. Then this is going to come to your BS letting go of the hate for him which will quickly turn to what you have done to fix him.
I am going to post up in General why this is a big issue for you. I was the one who told you I think I know where your husband is posting. He started out trying to defend you and is slowly being pushed into seeing things as they really are.
You need to get past being the victim here yourself. You already spent several months getting over being the victim. Now it is time to get over the other side of that equation.
I really was Sorry. Like I said, read the abuser thread. It is eye opening for all the WS in there.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 9:05 AM, September 11th (Wednesday)]

S0leil posted 9/9/2019 16:55 PM

Why do people say, ďSorryĒ when theyíre not really sorry?
DoinBettr, what gives you the idea that I somehow think Iím ďspecialĒ and that because I was raped I falsely believe that Iím ďnot a spouse abusing cheater like all the others here?Ē Have you lost your fucking mind? Have you read anything Iíve ever posted before you came up with that BS? (I have less than 20 posts and I think theyíre all in the Wayward forum, so not hard to find.)

When and where did I state I didnít abuse my spouse? I not only abused my spouse, I also abused my kids. I abused myself. An affair isnít exactly a joyous occasion in a marriage.

A person who had a LTA might seek advice from others whoíve been in their shoes. A person who had a lot of ONS and other forms of emotionless infidelity might seek advice from others who did the same and are farther out. Because although some of the general advice is useful to you, other parts of it donít apply at all in your situation and would be stupid to implement and could potentially hurt your BS worse.

The (multiple) rapes I have endured in my life have been the most embarrassing, traumatic, horrifying experiences I have ever had. They are something that I talk to NO ONE about except my husband and my IC. I DAMN SURE donít think it makes me special and FUCK YOU IN YOUR ASS for daring to insult rape victims by saying such a thing.

You sorry, pathetic asshole. Let me tell you how fucking SPECIAL rape has made me.

I learned how to suck a dick to completion at age four. Yes, mother fucker, four. How to cup and lick the balls. How to let your tongue linger around the head of the dick, roll your tongue around it, flicking your tongue up and down while you make your way down the shaft. How to wrap your hand around the base of their dick to help jack them off because your mouth is too small too deep throat them, but if you use your hands just right it still helps them come. How to run your finger along the crack of their ass and to press gently but firmly on the piece of skin between their dick and their ass.

How to develop a technique thatís midway between swallowing and spitting. I couldnít swallow it all because it was too much, but I learned if you swallowed some of it down and then you partially regurgitated the rest and opened your mouth wide it made it have a loose, more pliable liquidy consistency because it was now mixed with your saliva. That made it easier for the guy to smear it all over your cheeks and nose and mouth, and also helped it to be a little more visible when it dried on your face, which was a huge turn on to your ďpartnerĒ (your adult male relative).

What about being taught at that age how to ďtrainĒ your vaginal opening to become gradually large by using progressively larger tampon applicators and lube? Because your rapist want to sink his dick into your tight, young, preschool aged pussy, but youíre too small and young and heís worried that someone will be able to tell that there had been intercourse. So until you have gradually train your body to be able to take that dick, he has to learn to be satisfied with you sucking his dick and licking his ass.

Oh, Iíve got stories. Hereís one about being raped by the AP. You know, since Iím so goddam ďspecial.Ē He lured me to him with a story that I was stupid enough to believe. An ďemergencyĒ he needed to help me with. Not long into my visit, he gave me a beverage. I was thirsty and I drank it. Less than half an hour later I felt like I was some sort of alien. I could see, but couldnít make words come out of my mouth. I couldnít move my limbs. I felt paralyzed, possessed. Even the way things sounded was strange, like as if my ears were muffled and amplified at the same time. It was like I was a living rag doll. As I slumped on the couch, the AP fondled me to his heartís content, eventually pulling my pants down, moving my underwear to the side, and sticking his penis into me without a condom. He moaned and groaned with pleasure. I saw his nearly toothless mouth twisted to the side gleefully as he ejaculated into me. That was the first time he had me that day. Not the last...

I came here to ask for help. Not to be treated like shit. Do YOU wake up night after night drenched in sweat, screaming and crying to the point where your BS is awakened by the commotion and has to hold you because you are having nightmares about being raped not only by the AP, but other rapists youíve been forced to deal with throughout your life? Are YOU driving around with a big dent in YOUR car because you were driving to pick your kids up from practice, had a panic attack when the thought of the rape popped in your head, and crashed your vehicle into something? Have YOU disassociated to the point that you have lost hours of your day? Are YOU so drained from EMDR sessions that you feel literal physical pain?

I donít fucking think so.

My BH chooses to stay with me. We are in R and Iím willing to do ANYTHING I can to help him because I have hurt him worse that he has ever been hurt in his life. But what I WONíT do is be anyone elseís victim anymore. Not in person and for damn sure not on an internet forum.

Fuck that. And fuck you too.

[This message edited by S0leil at 5:03 PM, September 9th (Monday)]

thatwilldo posted 9/9/2019 18:32 PM

(((SOliel)))You are so strong!

SI Staff posted 9/10/2019 09:49 AM

S0leil, you have a pm.

S0leil posted 9/10/2019 15:05 PM

If it is allowed, I want to publicly apologize for my harsh words. I was triggered by the suggestion that perhaps I find something enjoyable about being raped or that it is some type of fantasy (itís a nightmare not a fantasy). I triggered hard and I lashed out. I went too far and should not have used the words that I did, especially the profanity I directed toward the poster. I am sorry.

I stand by the fact that I have never stated nor implied that I was any more ďspecialĒ or that I am better than any other WS. Because I am not. I simply wanted to reach out to see if anyone knew anything that could be possibly be of help to me. I donít know who else to ask.

But I still donít have any right to address others in the way that I did. I was hurt and I reacted defensively and unknindly and I am sorry.

I will try to search Google and Twitter for some of the things that Itsallmyfault mentioned (and thank you for your empathetic post). Maybe those avenues will better help me unpack all of this. Thanks for your patience wirh me.

xhz700 posted 9/10/2019 15:10 PM

S0leil,

It sounds like you had it pretty awful, and I am sorry for what you have gone through. It isn't OK, it shouldn't be ignored, it's horrible.

That said, I am a strong believer in the idea that at some point we cease to be victims, and we become abusers. The world is full of people that were abused as children (me included). Kids that have been raped, had cigarettes put out on them... there is no shortage of cruelty in this world.

The only actions I can recommend for you are pretty clearly spelled out in your post. Get help for yourself. You can't do anything for your BH until you help yourself with the trauma that you are continuing to suffer from.

HellFire posted 9/10/2019 15:17 PM

I have to say something here.

I work with victims of sexual assault. I've listened to a lot of victims tell their story, their history, and the "odd" triggers and feelings that happens a result. Being raped is never a fantasy of theirs. That comment was inappropriate, demeaning,and ignorant. Ignorant because it was made by someone who has no idea what they are saying.

No, the rape doesn't make her special. But it does make her different from the average WS.

Some kindness and compassion is needed here.

66charger posted 9/11/2019 22:41 PM

Yes there is a place for people like you. It is called the planet Earth. A place where the sun rises every day and gives you the OPPORTUNITY to be better, feel better and get better. The "getting better" is the hardest part but it can be done.

Figuring out how to get better is half the process. For some it is IC or MC EMDR or a bunch of pills. For some the only way to get better is thru retribution. The infliction of retribution to all those that offended you in a deeply personal way may not heal you entirely, but not may heal you enough.

If you have not healed in other ways, it may be time to go in a different direction. Burn their house down. Every one of them. The assault on you as a child should not be let to pass. It doesn't matter if they are held accountable. That is not your responsibility. It doesn't matter if some do not believe you. What matters is that they hear you.

As far as your husband, if he wants to help fix this then let him be your hero. This will be a hard path to travel and it will definitely cause a lot of pain but so what, you have suffered enough pain, choose to inflict it on someone who deserves it.

Don't even think I do not know what I am talking about....or reading.

S0leil posted 9/11/2019 22:44 PM

I do not have enough posts to send PMs. DoinBettr, your edited post isnít any more helpful than your original one. First you falsely accused me of thinking that I was ďspecialĒ compared to other waywards and you made the hurtful and dehumanizing not to mention cruel remark that I have rape fantasies and therefore somehow enjoyed being raped.

Now youíre telling me about how Iím focused on jobs and money and that I spent months ďbeing the victim.Ē WTF are you even talking about? The AP is a parasitic drug addicted loser who survives off of the kindness of relatives and canít keep a job. He has no money to offer and probably still owes child support to his babyís mother for the OC he conceived when he cheated on me in the past. I work because we have a family to provide for and my BH works too.

If my husband is posting somewhere then he has every right to. He deserves support. But he has said that he isnít posting on any site and I choose to believe him. Heís a very trustworthy person. So idk whose posts you have read but I seriously doubt itís my BH.

I not only read, I posted on the ďWS abuserĒ thread. I stated openly that I am an abusive asshole. Because infidelity is abuse. And of course I have some remnants of wayward thinking. Thatís to be expected in the Wayward Forum. We donít become completely renewed overnight.

If your goal is to continue to gaslight and trigger me about my past rapes to the point that I stop posting on SI, youíre succeeding.

This is not my idea of support. I can tear my own self down without your help. My BH deserves a sane wife and thatís what I am going to give him. I donít have to be here if my posting is such a problem. I will find a place where I can grow and learn without being treated like shit from someone who doesnít know me and clearly enjoys inflicting pain upon others for past things that cannot change.

66charger posted 9/11/2019 23:04 PM

Yes there is a place for people like you. It is called the planet Earth. A place where the sun rises every day and gives you the OPPORTUNITY to be better, feel better and get better. Feeling better is easier than you think. Life can be pretty good. The "getting better" is the hardest part but it can be done.

Figuring out how to get better is half the process. For some it is IC or MC EMDR or a bunch of pills. For some the only way to get better is thru retribution. The infliction of retribution to all those that offended you in a deeply personal way may not heal you entirely, but not may heal you enough.

If you have not healed in other ways, it may be time to go in a different direction. Burn their house down. Every one of them. The assault on you as a child should not be let to pass. It doesn't matter if they are held accountable. That is not your responsibility. It doesn't matter if some do not believe you. What matters is that they hear you.

As far as your husband, if he wants to help fix this then let him be your hero. This will be a hard path to travel and it will definitely cause a lot of pain but so what, you have suffered enough pain, choose to inflict it on someone who deserves it.

Don't even think I do not know what I am talking about....or reading.

Strength and Honor, to a lost flower.

[This message edited by 66charger at 11:06 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]

66charger posted 9/11/2019 23:12 PM

A hurricane came thru and tore up everything. A flower was uprooted, flung around violently in a million directions, landing on the ground years later, torn, but still a flower.

Do what you got to do.

[This message edited by 66charger at 11:14 PM, September 11th (Wednesday)]

HellFire posted 9/12/2019 09:00 AM

Please do not allow the insensitive posts by one member,take this invaluable resource from you. You can ask him to no longer post on your threads. Or you can upgrade your membership,and block him.

This is the best site on the internet,bar none. 99% of the people here want to help. Don't let the 1% stop you.

Brennan87 posted 9/12/2019 09:13 AM

Soleil,

There isn't a stop sign on your thread, I'm a BS and a victim of sexual abuse.

I hear a lot of anger and venom in your posts, rightly so given the situation. Often times, victims of sexual abuse 'recreate' what is comfortable and familiar (as sick as that sounds) and in order to obtain "control" of the outcome.

You mentioned EMDR which is great for these types of situations, but what plan does your therapist have in place that you have agreed too to address all of this.
Infidelity alone is brutal for both the betrayed and betrayer, but when you add in prior sexual trauma it takes it to an entirely different level.

I agree with others, that at some point we have got to stop being the victim and start being a survivor. It's the only path forward for us to have a better, healthier life that includes good coping skills and good choices.

I am sorry you went through this as a child, many of us can unfortunately relate. However, as you pointed out, as you are now the "abuser", its time you took your own control and power back and survive and thrive and help your BS as well.

There are survivor forums out there if you google them.

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