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I read something the other day that has stuck with me. A good way to describe a narcissist is: always the victim or the hero, never the villain. That struck a cord with me. I do think that there may be levels or narcissistic behavior, varying degrees of it. Thoughts?

There are absolutely levels of it. My WS was diagnosed with strong NPD tendencies. He displays a lot of them but not all.

I got myself one of those fancy "covert" narcs. Didn't know what I had til it was gone. Woe is me. I dunno if mine was lower on the range and therefore manageable, or extra good at deception. Regardless, once the mask slipped at the end, I can't help but think the latter.

Abandonedguy can you elaborate on the behavior of your partner? It can hit home for the rest of us when we read another's findings and have an ah ha moment.

Gladly. First, always the victim. No actual accountability. Hollow words to end an argument. Crying to elicit sympathy. "It's all my fault," she'd dramatically exclaim in tears without addressing the point of the discussion or acknowleding where I met her in the middle. Also lots of emphatic hyperbole. "You always" was a favorite of hers.

Defensive to a fault. Even the slightest criticism. "Oh you're so perfect" I'd hear. Even when I was being open, vulnerable, and self-effacing. She projected an awful lot, and this was indicative of her own feelings of being above everyone else.

No compassion, really. Laughed most at schadenfreude type humor. Little empathy for me or anyone. Didn't seem to care about the feelings of others. Manifested in shitty gift giving (but boy did she supply herself with great gifts on an almost weekly basis, which never stopped despite our many discussions about saving money and such). Totally a bitch...but one I thought was on my side so I didn't think about it much.

Major entitlement, to say the least. Made twice as much as dad but still accepted 200 a month to pay school loans even in her mid 30s (I assume that never stopped). Got 15k when he sold his deceased moms house, another 15k a couple years later for some other reason. All his kids got this. Ex never saw that as anything but "well of course he gave me a taste". I said he didnt have to give you a dime. This woman never appreciated anything special people did for her. That was all 12 years. She was a good faker when she needed to be, though.

Which was weird when the facade dropped on DDay and its just shark eyes with nothing behind them and a cold demeanor. I get we were going through somw adversarial stuff, but she really had nothing for me. And days earlier it was like I was the light of her life. Im sorry but that kind of switch is pure narc to me. Not a regular person just reacting defensively to a shitty situation for which they want to skirt responsibility.

Surprisingly way into cuddling and physical intimacy. She was very professionally driven. She just assumed a place in my social group since she didn't keep in touch with her friends very much. Some of these are good things in the right context. Now? Who knows.

Some of this is textbook narc, some is just personality traits. Just spitballing a few things off the top of my head to get the narc horror story ball rolling.

"They don't discard you for someone better. They discard you for someone who can't see through their bullshit"

So true. They wear that mask well but eventually it slips. Time ALWAYS takes care of that. It begins to slip when they feel they have a good grip on you. You have fallen in love with them. If not in a relationship with them their true self will eventually reveal itself, and you notice people distancing themselves from your narc. Then the slow and steady destruction of your self esteem, your marriage, your sanity, and that of the person you are begins. Question or confront and they do or say what it takes to give you a toke on the hopium pipe and keep you where you are.

Narcissism is a spectrum disorder with varying degrees. It can range from someone being a bit too into themselves to someone toxic to someone dangerous and controlling.

I knew my husband was narcissistic but had no knowledge of what it really means. What it entailed. I have been getting an education I wish I had learned without having to live it.

I see it now whereas once I excused it or the rose colored glasses distorted the view. It's extremely eye opening and whatever happens, I have and continue to learn about what I'm dealing with.

And no, taking the blame is not something they are wired to do. Everything, and I mean everything, is someone elses fault or it's merely brushed off without any further mention.

Their capability for their behaviors is mind boggling to anyone else. To them? It's business as usual.

Oh my god, how did I forget gaslighting! She gaslit like a sumbitch. I used to joke about her "bad memory" 6 years in and that we shouldn't argue without a court stenographer present. She'd gaslight, without me knowimg thats what it was, and Id joking say "stenoooographer, can you read back to us...blahblah". It was a fun joke between us, me trying to inject levity into a tense situation. Par for me.

Then after I realized she was a CN it all became clear. And her last major bit of gaslighting during DDay+1's Blameshiftfest. I caught her in the middle of realizing I knew she was lying, too. Those eyes, that look. Shuddering over here haha.

Yes, there are definitely degrees. One person can have narc tendencies while another is a full blown narc.

My mother was never diagnosed (because there wasn't anything wrong with her), but I'm convinced she was a narc. She was a horrible person.

She was never wrong, never made a mistake. Everything was someone else's fault. She was a master at gaslighting. One of things she did that absolutely drove me mad was, when she apologized, it was always, "I'm sorry you feel that way." Never, "I'm sorry for what I did." She made me crazy for many years.

ETA: She also was a cheater and blamed my dad.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 2:56 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

My dad is full blown legit narc. He's on wife 4. Stole antiques from his own parents. Embezzled while cheating on my mother. Huge POS. Lots of entitlement in that fella. Way worse than my exwife, I feel for those women who stick with him.

I too was married to a covert narc. I only saw it in hindsight, once the mask came off. I can never unsee those cold, dead eyes of his.

There’s a great article, 25 signs of a covert narcissist, that you can google. It was helpful for me to read and realize some of the stuff I was taking the blame for had nothing to do with me. This is just how they are. They’re broken people. I was gaslighted for years into thinking that I was just too sensitive, I was expecting too much, he was just a really great guy doing his best. Nope. He was a passive aggressive, resentful monster who liked to subtly punish me for all my “wrong-doings” (like expecting fidelity, reciprocity, basic human kindness, etc).

Always the victim or the hero. Just want to enthusiastically agree with this! While I too have a fancy covert narc, he not only LOVES but DEMANDS to only be cast in roles as victim or hero in pretty much all aspects of his life, all the time.

As the victim, nothing was/is/will ever (be) his fault. He’s just misunderstood because of course he is very special, you know. Very unique. His struggles with life are so vast and troublesome and no one will ever understand! No one could/would ever accept him for the special, unique creature that he is!

And what a hero!! Before I realized I was married to a very special, unique, covert narc liar and sexually confused cheater, I thought he was the perfect guy. And so did everyone else. He didn’t just do anything. He DID it. If he offered to help you move, he would help you pack it, load it, unload it and set up your new place. And bring pizza and beer. Or a meat and cheese basket with wine. Or whatever you preferred. Because of course he had all that shit figured out. And he did it with more charm than humanly possible.

Most holidays I received the most thoughtful gifts. I mean stuff that I couldn’t even believe he thought of. Things I’d forgotten about. But wow! How amazing that he listened and remembered and bought this for me???? How lucky I was!

He could really shine when I was sick. I had a minor surgical procedure a few years back and you would have thought I was on my death bed. I could literally want for nothing. This man did EVERYTHING. I mean I don’t know if he made time to see his boyfriend then but he sure took care of me and all our familial responsibilities like a freaking superstar. Everyone was like “Omg mmwp, you’re SOOOOO lucky!! He is the best husband EVER!!!!!!!!!!”

Oh and that gaslighting part? I considered scheduling an appointment with my doctor to get a referral to a neurologist because I thought I must be having some kind of issue. Everything I remembered saying, I never said. Things I never thought I said, well obviously, I did. And whatever he said or didn’t say? Whichever way I remembered it was guaranteed to be wrong.

Google 'Narcissism Quora'. Lots of great info there!

Things I never thought I said, well obviously, I did. And whatever he said or didn’t say? Whichever way I remembered it was guaranteed to be wrong.

Having flashbacks with this one. This all day long. The final gaslighting attempt she did was a reference to this conversation we'd had about a month earlier (probably well into her affair, now that I think about it). We were sitting on the couch drinking wine and watching movies. She brought up how she'd probably be a bad mother. Let's be clear: she'd be an AWFUL mother. One of those who treats their kid like a goddamn handbag until they become too much of a problem and then the kid gets ignored. Just the worst. But I wasn't going to be so callous so I sheepishly agreed, even though I wanted to high five her for the level of self-realization that was rare with her. Then during Blameshifting Extravaganza 2018: The Final Conflict, she threw out there "You said I'd be a terrible mother". Woof.

Of course, I stopped in my tracks and repeated, I think, "Are you kidding!?" to the point where she's like "Why are you looking at me like that?" because I was giving her mad daggers. Then I called her out on it and in the middle of this, I could see clear as day on her face the realization that her jig was up and I wasn't giving into this obvious attempt to fuck with my mind and tack on even more blameshifting fun. Then she backtracked. She also tried to scramble me up in a million different ways during that argument. The True Evil was on full display--and I hate using the word "evil" outside of religion or horror movies, but let's just say I felt like at any moment she would transform into a swarm of flies and start attacking me.

Makesmewannapuke you are bang on - my WH must be a clone:

I thought he was the perfect guy. And so did everyone else. He didn’t just do anything. He DID it. If he offered to help you move, he would help you pack it, load it, unload it and set up your new place. And bring pizza and beer. Or a meat and cheese basket with wine. Or whatever you preferred. Because of course he had all that shit figured out. And he did it with more charm than humanly possible.

Most holidays I received the most thoughtful gifts. I mean stuff that I couldn’t even believe he thought of. Things I’d forgotten about. But wow! How amazing that he listened and remembered and bought this for me???? How lucky I was!

He could really shine when I was sick. I had a minor surgical procedure a few years back and you would have thought I was on my death bed. I could literally want for nothing. This man did EVERYTHING. I mean I don’t know if he made time to see his boyfriend then but he sure took care of me and all our familial responsibilities like a freaking superstar. Everyone was like “Omg mmwp, you’re SOOOOO lucky!! He is the best husband EVER!!!!!!!!!!”

Everyone's comments here ring true. For my WH when the Narc tactics don't work in comes the passive aggressive maneuvers to get the job done. Just this past weekend we had an argument over who was going to do something. I said he should, then he attacks me saying that I said I didn't want to do it !!!! Twists my words around until I'm sure I'm losing my mind. It's a blessing being on this site, I know I'm not going crazy.

All of the above, plus:

They need a Top Dog. And will be loyal, devoted to them and will defend them. Top dog cannot do wrong. Even if you point out that TD is an arsehole, a gossip, somebody not good, somebody who uses people. OW was Top Doggo for my XH and he put his entire career on the line for her. She wanted to go to the gym during work hours? No probs! She had a beef against her in-line manager? XH would talk to the guy and go back to Ow with examples why she was right, the guy was a total dumbass (and that the manager should not even be a manager because he had asked XH how to fix his pool pump at home. All this crap was on the company server, of course. And the guy was a friend of my xh that we had over once, with his family for a bbq. Nice.) Impressing top Dog was his mission in life, at the expense of me, and his kids.(reading all this shit on the company server just made me even more anxious about him getting fired).

Narcissists stick together, it's like magnets.

They exchange "roles". My xh used to change when his parents were coming here on vacation. He would be The Son. His mom was The Grandma to my 2 oldest kids. Xh was his mom's confidant. When she emails him (to this day) about his brother and his wife, she refers to them as "the kids". She used to ask Xh when he would get a vasectomy ( since when does a mom need to know about the state of his adult kid dick? ) and called me once to ask as well.

They thrive on bad behavior and getting away with it. They are so arrogant, they just think people will fall for their apologizes and they will be ok. Cue to OW telling my xh that I should thank her for him getting in shape (I emailed her manager instead, and her husband. You're welcome)

They can also have different "faces" according to the situation. Xh used to have a "raccoon face" when he was lying. It was weird.

They have an expert opinion on a lot of things. Even stuff they don't know anything about or have no experience or gasp! has nothing to do with them. So we gave my 4th and 5th kids my family name. Number 1, 2 and 3 have my xh's family name. Xmil knew it, xmil didn't approve so xmil addressed all his cards with her family name until xh told her to write my name. They will use buzzwords and throw them in the conversation to appear knowledgeable. Cue to xmil telling my xh that SHE was on the rollercoaster after his affair, because he had emailed her that his A had kicked me in the nuts and I was a zombie, on a roller coaster.

Yes, victim or hero. After I found out about his cheating, my xh was avoiding me and couldn't even be in the same room as me. He was behaving like I got caught cheating on him and looking at me made him puke. Total role reversal. I was getting gaga, still having to look after the 3 babies and teenage son, while xh was doing his victim shit play. Oh, and xmil had told my son that his dad got divorced because I was unforgiving, held grudges, and that he was just drinking like a fish because of all the shit at home. Oh, and xh also started smoking because of me. Scapegoat anybody?

That's about it. Narcissism is just one weird world.

Oh, goody!!! I love talking about narcissism!! It’s fun to compare notes!

(On a serious note, I know the pain a narc inflicts is definitely not funny.)

My STBWH is a textbook narc.

Grandiosity and an inflated sense of self

Complete lack of empathy

Believes that he is never wrong and everything is someone else’s fault.

Everyone should cater to his demands and needs at all times.

Flies off into a rage if you attempt to call out any shortcomings

Cheating is a given due to all of the above,

I think a little recording plays in my narc’s head all day. “I’m

Mr. Zamboni ... DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? I’m fucking brilliant and wonderful and I can do and say whatever the fuck I want. You should be absolutely honored to see my magic penis.”

Anyone have constructive ways of handling their Narcissist partners?

Damn, when I read the title of this thread I was hoping it'd be something funny making fun of a narcissist.

Like: what does a narcissist say to the mirror? I'm better than you.

How do you distract a narcissist? You've got something in you teeth.

Here's a joke: what was the last thing a narcissist ex-wife ever said to her husband and lover of 12 years before the full blown discard and disappearance from his life?

"Good luck with the move tomorrow."

Anyone have constructive ways of handling their Narcissist partners?

Run.