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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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ElZorro posted 12/19/2018 14:11 PM

How long does it take for a WS to really understand the depths of what they've done?

For me it's taken a separation/divorce and about 2-3 weeks of figuring out a starting point.

After my EA and her PA&EA, we were always quick to take each other back after DDay, either sweep it under the rug and chalk it up to neglect or go to marriage counseling for about 5 sessions and call it good.

This final straw, I'm the WS, I knew I had a problem (and it wasn't just a bad marriage or "she makes me miserable" like I thought). I kept this pattern going and I couldn't for the life of me see it nor figure out how to address it.

After getting my emotions in check and back to a healthy level where I could actually think straight and not play victim I started to do digging and figured out just how deep inward, not outward like I did in the past, I needed to go to put an end to this behavior and choices.

20yrsagoBS posted 12/22/2018 16:04 PM

WS,

At what point in your cheating did you realize you were cheating?

ff4152 posted 12/22/2018 18:51 PM

The moment I kissed my AP for the first time. That was then. I never used to consider talking to someone as cheating. Now I know different. The moment you start hiding and sneaking in any fashion, youíve crossed a line.

Barregirl posted 12/22/2018 22:18 PM

20yrsagoBS, I think for me it was a gradual understanding. In the beginning, I thought that my H wouldn't think me texting another man was cheating - after all I had plenty of male friends that he knew about and was never jealous of. This one, I didn't tell him about. Then I was spending so much more time on my phone and sitting in my bathroom so he wouldn't ask what I was doing on my phone. And so it went. The first time I knew I was cheating was when my H asked who texted me and I flat-out lied and said it was a girlfriend so I didn't have to tell him about the OM. It's a hard pill to swallow, knowing that I knew what I was doing and did it anyway, so thank you for asking that question. I have something new to work on.

layla1234 posted 12/23/2018 16:18 PM

Are there any WS's who had strictly EAs? What kept you from crossing that boundary? WS and AP worked together for our whole marriage and went on a 3 dates with him being at her house for one of them. They had plenty of opportunities, so why didn't it go further? BTW he passed a polygraph that he never had any inappropriate physical contact with anyone.

20yrsagoBS posted 12/24/2018 16:53 PM

When did You, the WS, decide you could cheat on your spouse but also keep your spouse? Did you think your spouse was capable of the same deceit?

Brennan87 posted 12/29/2018 10:02 AM

WS'

I hope that all of you were able to sit back and relax and enjoy the holiday season not only with your families and friends, but with yourselves as well. This time of year is difficult for most, whether or not affairs are involved or not.

I've been ruminating on the following and would really like some WS feedback if possible.

1) For those of you who found "happiness" in your lives during the affair. How did that reconcile with the fact you were destroying lives? I can't get over how the affair made my WW happy (I know it was an escape, a recreation of her past, etc), too me this translates to "destroying lives made her happy".
2) If the DDay outcome was different would your reaction and feelings post dday (including today differ?) For example, part of the reason for my WW's affair was revenge, she wanted too hurt as she thought I had an affair as well. She's come to realize during her journey, these were all lies she told herself. So I wonder, would the remorse, regret, emotional turmoil, shame and guilt been there on D-Day had I turned to her and said "You got your revenge for my affair, it did happen"? I guess you could insert anything here with revenge. I'm just curious on this one.

Gravycake posted 12/29/2018 23:05 PM

Thinking someone has had an affair is very different from someone who has. The reconciliation might be similar but the consequences and aftermath are quite different. How you respond to the alleged affair is also quite different than what needs to happen if you truly did. So many people do not consider EA as actual affairs. Thatís how they justify. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is how your spouse feels you treated them. And if they feel betrayed you have done something wrong.

Followtheriver posted 1/2/2019 15:07 PM

Brennan87,


1) For those of you who found "happiness" in your lives during the affair. How did that reconcile with the fact you were destroying lives? I can't get over how the affair made my WW happy (I know it was an escape, a recreation of her past, etc), too me this translates to "destroying lives made her happy".

I did not find happiness in my life during the A because I was not looking or wanting happiness. I was wanting revenge for 47 years of pain. I was looking for a way to unleash the anger that over the years had turned into pure rage.

Destroying my BH, myself and my M in no way made me happy. I was, for so long, so full of all the ugliness from the self- hate, contempt, loathing and the rage that I didn't know the definition of the word "happy."

Trying to figure out how I had gotten to the point of being able to intentionally cause pain to my BH and destruction of my M, well it was my rock bottom. I can not tell you how much I hated what I had allowed myself to become and really scared of the person I was for those 2 months. In order to reconcile the fact that I caused such destruction, I set out to face my demons and fix my shit. I was done with being weak and broken.

2) If the DDay outcome was different would your reaction and feelings post dday (including today differ?) For example, part of the reason for my WW's affair was revenge, she wanted too hurt as she thought I had an affair as well.
So I wonder, would the remorse, regret, emotional turmoil, shame and guilt been there on D-Day had I turned to her and said "You got your revenge for my affair, it did happen"?

When I set my mind on something, like the goal of fixing my broken self, nothing was going to stop me. Whether my BH decided to D or R, I was going to do the work to heal. I used the shame, guilt and remorse that I felt to propel me to become the person that not only my BH deserved but the person that I truly had always wanted to be.

So in that sense, my reactions and feelings post D-day would not have changed. I would have faced my demons and healed myself no matter what.

After saying that, please remember, I had already ended the A, I figured my BH would divorce me and I was still full of rage. So I am going to be completely honest with you. You may not like what I am going to say because my BH didn't when we had a similar discussion.

My reactions would have be different if my BH had reacted differently than he did. If he would have tried to throw me out, I would have refused to leave.

If he had exposed the A to family and friends, I would have seen it as an act of war and my rage filled self would have retaliated and we would probably be D.

If he had filed for D and had me served immediately, I would have signed and we would be D right now.

I know how my answers to your questions are going to sound to a BS. I was a monster and I know it. I intentionally set out to inflict as much pain on my BH as I could. I was like Carrie at the prom. The guilt, shame and remorse that I felt on D-day were selfishly more for myself than my BH. I had no empathy for him, hell, I didn't even have too much sympathy for what he was feeling. At the time, I believed that he deserved everything he got because of his behavior pre-A.

I do want you to know that true remorse hit me shortly after D-day. I got the help I needed. I not only faced my demons, I kicked their ass and was finally able to heal all the broken parts of me. I continue to help heal my BH and work on myself. We are a team in our M and my BH considers us reconciled. So anything is possible.

hikingout posted 1/2/2019 15:14 PM

When did You, the WS, decide you could cheat on your spouse but also keep your spouse? Did you think your spouse was capable of the same deceit?


I don't think I ever decided that coherently. My A was two months long. I think I was more focused on keeping the escape going and not being caught.

I did not think my husband would cheat, no.

hikingout posted 1/2/2019 15:32 PM

Hi Brennan,

1) For those of you who found "happiness" in your lives during the affair. How did that reconcile with the fact you were destroying lives? I can't get over how the affair made my WW happy (I know it was an escape, a recreation of her past, etc), too me this translates to "destroying lives made her happy".

I am not sure if I can shed further light on that. I can only say I was not focused on the fact that I was destroying lives. I was pushing down all the thoughts and feelings that would make me examine that. I was focused solely on just being in the escape of my reality. And, none of that really had anything to do with my husband to me. What I mean by that is, it wasn't HIM I was escaping, or even our marriage. It was my pain I was escaping. So, if you think about an alcoholic or a drug addict - they don't really want to hurt those around them, they use those things to escape their pain. To numb themselves. That was what the affair was to me.


2) If the DDay outcome was different would your reaction and feelings post dday (including today differ?) For example, part of the reason for my WW's affair was revenge, she wanted too hurt as she thought I had an affair as well. She's come to realize during her journey, these were all lies she told herself. So I wonder, would the remorse, regret, emotional turmoil, shame and guilt been there on D-Day had I turned to her and said "You got your revenge for my affair, it did happen"? I guess you could insert anything here with revenge. I'm just curious on this one.


A lot to dissect with this one.

First, two wrongs don't make a right. And, if he had cheated, it would not have exonerated me from my own actions. I threw away my integrity, and nothing he would have done would have negated that and made it justifiable.


I can't say how that would have impacted my journey. I want to believe that I would not have wanted to be a cheater and I think I would have still done the work on myself. The path to that might have been altered, but I think I still would have sought what was right for me and what aligns with what my true values really are.


As far as justifications, I had them at the time. I wasn't looking to get revenge. The stories I told myself were different than that, but probably for the same reasons she had them....cognitive dissonance. I told myself I deserved something for me, that I had done everything for everyone for so long. I did begin rewriting the marital history as time went along but that wasn't the starting point of what fueled my feelings of entitlement.

But, down deep I liked my actions and the way I conducted myself way better prior to the affair. I think I would have sought out the truth about myself and the things I needed to work on regardless of anything my husband did or said in the aftermath. However, I haven't been betrayed, and it's difficult to know how trauma would have delayed or altered that journey. I think it would be arrogant of me to say that I would be where I am now 18 months out from the affair - I think the time and path would have been delayed. Hard to predict circumstances.

It made me wonder in that scenario - you likely wouldn't have found it easier to accept from your wife had that been the case, right? It would not have exonerated her in that direction either?

Sunny69 posted 1/8/2019 02:41 AM

Branded a cheater.

Post DDay I have used the word cheated, liar, cheat in our discussions. My WSO has, since DDay, struggled with word games he plays on his phone. Games he used to play during his affair too, one game in particular, is like boggle and the words liar and cheat are words which come up often and now act as a trigger, poke to him..

The other day we were talking and he said how difficult it is to think of himself as an adulterer. We are fifteen months post dday and neither of us have used this word before. Do WS see themselves as cheaters, liars, adulterers during their affair? Or are your minds genuinely closed off to seeing yourself in those words if and when you see them.

ff4152 posted 1/8/2019 06:30 AM

Sunny

Itís a bit ironic that this is happening to your H while playing those games as the same thing happens to me.

On an intellectual level, I knew what I was doing was wrong. There was always a bit of guilt during my A, but obviously not enough to stop. Those words were part of my vocabulary, but they didnít apply to me. They only had meaning as words if that makes any sense.

Now that Iím past the A, those labels have a much different impact on me. They are now part of my history and no matter what I do, I cannot erase that. I recall reading a story years ago about an old man attending his wifeís funeral. Apparently, they had a bit of a bumpy marriage although the love was always there. He was conversing with someone at the service and said something along the lines of, regardless of how bad things got, I never cheated. That always stuck with me and I thought I would be like that guy. But I can no longer be.

WasSheWorthIt posted 1/8/2019 10:33 AM

Hello. This is my first posting.
My husband totally destroyed me 5 months ago when he told me he didnt love me anymore, had met someone else and loves her. He left that day and moved straight in with her. A couple of weeks later he said he's always loved me and wanted to come home. He dumped the ow. Two weeks later while discussing the terms of him moving back home he changed his mind saying again he doesn't love me and went back to her. As far as i know they are still together. We've been married for 22 years and have 4 near grown children. I dont see him at all now, he wants us to be friends but thats never going to happen. I cut contact with him completely. He rarely contacts the kids which to me is heartbreaking for them and totally totally unforgivable.
My questions (respectfully) to WS who left for the AP are

1- did your choices affect your relationship with your children in ways you didnt anticipate.? And did you build bridges with your kids.? My H truely thought that the kids wouldnt mind and would accept what he's done as they would want him to be happy.!!!

2- did you think that your BS would want to keep you in their life as a friend.If they did, how has it worked out.

3- do you ever think of the family you left behind or have you moved on completely.

These questions are so important to me and i would really appreciate if someone can answer them for me. Thank You

EvolvingSoul posted 1/9/2019 21:25 PM

Hi there WasSheWorthIt,

Most of the WS here are either trying to reconcile or want to so it might be difficult to find people here to answer your questions about how relationships with kids develop down the road after the WS leaves the marriage for the AP. Not too many of those folks land here. That is not to say it's impossible but I didn't want you to get discouraged if you don't get a specific response.

There is another thread in this forum, (I Can Relate) entitled "When a WS leaves for their AP" that might also be a help to you since all the people posting there are in a similar situation).

I'm sorry for your suffering. May you find peace and healing.

Tallgirl posted 1/9/2019 21:29 PM

Hi WS's, I read a number of posts in this thread. Thank you for your honesty, it helps. I admire your journeys of self healing and discovery, and wish you happiness.

I hope you will grant me the gift of sharing your insights for these questions...

Did any of you decide or believe that you could work to R without IC, and without significant self reflection? Did you try it on your own? What helped you realize that you needed more support if you did? My WS states he wants to R - I am not seeing the work. I see that he believes what he says - "I will never go there again". "I am on the straight and narrow". These statement means nothing to me. Can anyone help me understand his thinking? I want him to go to IC.


My WS confessed that he loved his AP - it was amazing for 2 years. They were life loves, best friends, she made him feel incredible. Their relationship deteriorated when he didn't leave the M. After it ended, he told me that he wanted to end the relationship for 3 years. She actually broke up with him multiple times over this period, yet he always went back - and they got closer. I don't understand.

And my last question, why did he not ask for a D? He confessed that he wanted me to hurt during the beginning of the A.

Truly appreciative of any insights you can share.

I am trying to decide if I'm done. We have been married for 25 yrs in May.

Thank you

Barregirl posted 1/9/2019 22:22 PM

Hi Tallgirl. I can't speak for all WSs, but I definitely wouldn't be where I am with my BH without IC and tons of self-reflection. I don't think self-reflection ever ends, for anyone really. Self-reflection and IC have given me the tools I needed to fix what was broken inside. I am in a much better place not just in my M, but in myself, now that I have looked deep inside, identified the pieces of myself that were broken, and worked on healing those parts. I am not done with my work, and I'm not sure I ever will be, but I have a much better handle on things now.

As for your second question, I'm afraid the only person who can answer that is your WH. For myself, I knew that I wanted to stay married to my BH, that I wanted a relationship with him that I could imagine but not figure out how to make reality. So I went seeking outside the M, instead of inside the M. The man and the M I wanted was right there in front of me, I just had to reach out for it. Sometimes it is just the fear of reaching out and missing that holds us back.

Rideitout posted 1/10/2019 07:02 AM

This is going to be a hard one, apologies in advance. Did any WS's here have a more sexual relationship with their AP? Enjoy sex with their AP more? If so, how did you come to terms with it? How did you improve the relationship with your BS? Did you tell them?

Barregirl posted 1/10/2019 08:52 AM

RIO, my sexual history with my BH was horrifically awful (and acknowledged as such by both of us). We maybe had sex 4 times a year, and I don't think I had had an orgasm (sorry tmi) in at least 3 years. We had discussed it ad nauseum, but nothing changed or worked. We were both frustrated, resentful, and angry, and those feelings led to a complete breakdown in our relationship where it became easier to be on facebook than even have dinner together. I went searching for sex outside of our M. The sex wasn't mind-blowing, but I did orgasm and I guess it was good. The sex was completely vanilla, but at that point any sex where I reached orgasm was good sex.
On dday, I did tell my BH that I reached orgasm with the AP, which prompted a bout of very angry sex between us. And you know what they say about angry sex... so that brought about a sexual revolution in the house of Barregirl. My BH discovered his more adventurous side, and I became more upfront with what works for me. Getting over the emasculation wasn't easy, but I found that initiating, sending flirty texts, making more of an effort with clothes and makeup on date night, planning a weekly date night, and little surprise getaways have helped considerably. Now I look back at sex with the AP as eh and I know how completely not worth it it was. My BH and I have mind-blowing sex now and I know we aren't going back to that awful time.
I don't know if that was the answer you were looking for.

WasSheWorthIt posted 1/11/2019 16:57 PM

Evolvingsoul..
Thankyou for your response and kind words.

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