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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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hikingout posted 7/30/2019 13:34 PM

early detour,

I *think* my husband experienced this right after a long stage of anger. I want to say anger kicked in around 5 or 6 months, and then he got quiet during month 8 and 9 and then he asked for a divorce.

I am not sure if that's helpful, because I think it's hard for the WS to know they are seeing a stage, and I am not sure if my BH would think of it that way. But, it kind of went, shock, denial, anger, and then complete detachment. Quiet. Avoided me a lot. Then, he asked for the divorce, and we moved our furniture around for in house separation.

I think at that point, we both kind of contemplated what things would look like if we divorced. Financially both would have been fine. Kids, okay not ideal but they are grown and out of the house. We talked about how we would still come together for family gatherings so they wouldn't have to choose. We talked about who would get what, there was no arguments. And, then I think even though we both knew we could both do it, and would eventually heal....we both kind of decided that we didn't want to divorce. And, after that, I think he started deciding what that meant. He said he wanted to be happy, and if we were going to stay married then he needed to find ways to move forward. And, we spent probably the next six months talking a lot, we started marriage counseling around that point (I had been in IC the entire time). It's progressively gotten better.


His POLF, if that's what it was, I think it was short lived. I have little insight into what he was thinking during that time because he was so shut down. Have you asked the other BS's?

hikingout posted 7/30/2019 13:59 PM

WSís? Did you know that it was wrong to cheat on your spouse before you cheated?
How could you do something so wrong, despite knowing?

I don't see how anyone can say they didn't know it was wrong. So, of course I knew it was wrong. I do think sometimes we don't think through the devastation and we underestimate that a great deal, but no I think any person who cheats knows it's wrong.

The general answer is that we justify our actions somehow. I had one two month EA/PA - in my case a lot let up to that time period in which I took a lot of resentments and used it to fuel my entitlement in "doing something for me". It was absolutely a bunch of bullshit. In reality, someone paid attention to me during a very vulnerable time in my life and I leapt towards it instead of deciding against it. So, I told myself whatever I could to justify my behavior and make it not seem as bad.


I will be honest in saying - your spouse has a different answer. Someone doesn't go on to have multiple affairs spanning decades and there isn't something far more complex happening. But, suffice it to say your husband knew it was wrong, and he decided that what he wanted to do was more important. He prioritized himself in having the stable home life and eating his cake at the same time.


JBWD posted 7/31/2019 20:09 PM

20 YrsAgo

How could you do something so wrong, despite knowing?

The simple answer is this- Humans routinely ignore consequences. It varies in magnitude for sure, and there exist ďinnocent examples.Ē But the degree to which one is able to do so is based on any number of individual factors that I think one would need a mental health professional to line out and dissect. If this didnít occur throughout the world, there wouldnít be a criminal justice system.

We have any number of ways we rationalize, try and push consequences down the road, etc. But how we can do it is the question that will be asked and puzzled over forever. The short answer is mental defect, selfish rationalization.

Gottagetthrough posted 8/4/2019 17:06 PM

WS- was sex better with AP than your spouse? I canít seem to get over that thought. I canít seem to get over thinking she was better in bed than me. She was older and Bothaís pretty as me, and I had ďmoreĒ going for me than her. So it just be the sex, right?

Darkness Falls posted 8/4/2019 18:09 PM

WS- was sex better with AP than your spouse?

In my case, yes. I knew he was, prior to the A, because he was my ex and Iíd had previous sexual experience with him. He was not just better than my spouse; he was the best sexual partner Iíve ever had, out of anyone.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 6:10 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

Gottagetthrough posted 8/4/2019 20:37 PM

Darkness Falls- did you go back to your spouse anyway?

I feel badly, like I suck in bed and Wh is conspiring me to ow. We are ďreconciledĒ but I worry about sex and think is it pity sex and heís like, ďI know good sex and my poor wife is a cold fish ď.

Edited to add- Wh has been my only sexual
Partner so I donít know anything outside our relationship. Wh was also a virgin when we met, although he had more experience than I did. OW had been with over 80 men, by her admissions, so she has to know more than me about sex.

I just feel stupid and naive. Like I donít know what Iím doing in bed . Makes me not want to have sex

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 8:41 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

Darkness Falls posted 8/4/2019 21:08 PM

My husband and I remarried each other, yes. We have a dead bedroom and have primarily only had sex over the last few years to conceive our children. Our marriage is not going to last past our kids growing up, and hopefully it will end sooner if I can get my act together.

Iím sorry youíre struggling in your M.

sam59 posted 8/4/2019 21:44 PM

Darkness Falls,

As a BS I read and take a lot from your honesty over the years.

You have said your husband is a great father.

So is the physical connection that lacks within your marriage enough to let you look beyond your current situation to ending things with the father of your children ?

Darkness Falls posted 8/5/2019 05:22 AM

sam59,

The lack of physical connection is much less important than the lack of emotional connection/emotional intimacy. There is no relationship between us. I can live without sex. I miss it but itís not my number one priority. What gets me is being ostensibly ďmarriedĒ but interacting in all ways as no more than cordial roommates.

That being said, as of right now, my plan is to hold things together until the kids are out of high school.

20yrsagoBS posted 8/5/2019 21:54 PM

WSs?

If youíre a Christian, how have you reconciled breaking one of the Ten Commandments with your cheating? Arenít you scared about burning in Hell?

My WH doesnít think he wIll burn in Hell, despite the way weíve been taught by our Catholic faith

[This message edited by 20yrsagoBS at 10:03 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

Darkness Falls posted 8/6/2019 07:48 AM

20yrs,

My understanding is that Godís grace is for everyone if there is sincere repentance. Christ died for the adulterers just as much as He did for the breakers of the commandments that warn against a lying tongue and a covetous heart, which IMO pretty much encompasses everyone at one time or another. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we are sorry and strive to change our ways, I donít believe He picks and chooses whom to forgive.

AloneAndDrowning posted 8/6/2019 12:40 PM

During my husbands 3 month PA and the following 2 months of EA (the PA ended and carried on as EA when he returned stateside) ... the few times we had sex... he couldn't finish or it took him longer than normal like he didnt enjoy it. And only seemed interested when drinking. After Dday we strait back into amazing sex. A week or 2 of HB. And now we still have great sex.

So was his issue during from Guilt or was he thinking of her? Was he honestly not satisfied with sex with me?

ChimneyTop posted 8/6/2019 22:22 PM

Darkness Falls

I'm not going to judge you if you choose to divorce; I am only commenting because I got the impression that you're a Christian.

Have you read Malachi 2, the second half of Ephesians 5, and the start of Hebrews 6?

Ephesians 5 essentially says that the relationship between a wife and husband is similar to the church's relationship with Christ. The husband is supposed to love his wife like how Christ loves the church (i.e. sacrificially). The relationship is supposed to mirror our relationship with Christ.

Malachi 2 and Hebrews 6 carry that metaphor forward a little bit.

Malachi 2 says that the Holy Spirit is woven into marriages and that divorce is a violent thing that rips the Spirit out of a relationship, and Hebrews 6 is about how it's impossible for someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit to come back to Christianity after falling away. This lines up with Deuteronomy 24, which says it is an abomination for two people to divorce and remarry each other if one of them married someone else between the divorce and remarriage.

I am absolutely not meaning to say that you are going to hell if you get a divorce and am only referencing Hebrews 6 and Deuteronomy 24 to add light to Ephesians 5 and show that God really hates divorce.

Again, to reemphasize, I don't know your situation and am not judging you. I am only trying to share some verses about divorce because I got the impression that you're a Christian. Please feel free to totally dismiss what I've said, but please also believe that I am not meaning to draw a message of condemnation or misogyny from those verses, and am only asking you to consider how divorce interacts with the mystical nature of marriage.

---

On a separate topic, have you tried reading Getting the love you want? It has some good exercises that might trick you both into desiring each other on an emotional level.

[This message edited by ChimneyTop at 7:13 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

JBWD posted 8/7/2019 00:58 AM

GGT-
For me, sex was not better at all with AP. My BW and I had ALWAYS had an amazing physical bond, and it blew any other relationship out of the water. Quite honestly though, even though I was convinced I was ďmadly in loveĒ with AP, it was that intensity of CONNECTION that I missed with my BW. It was what truly woke me up to understanding what I had destroyed between us, and now holding her is all I can think of- Because I wonít ever again. When I recognized that connection I recognized the mask I used and the masks I placed on others to make it all fit a narrative. Can vividly remember seeing this.

Problem becomes exactly what youíre asking: How did I understand it at the time that would make it so easy to set aside? This is one of those faith pieces where you need to truly accept that WSs affair down. I am a perfect example of someone who took an amazing partnership and shit all over it, and simply because I took more than I gave. It wasnít the sex, it was your WH willing to deceive himself to accept the easy feelings of validation as opposed to the harder but more genuine openness and affection that would have enhanced the connection you had/have. Comparing sucks and I know it destroys my BW, but youíre doing it far more than your WS.

Darkness Falls posted 8/7/2019 11:33 AM

ChimneyTop,

I will read those sections you mentioned. Thank you.

I hope Iím not violating the site guideline prohibiting religious debates with what Iím about to discuss. First, let me say that while I am a Christian, in that Iím a believer in Christ as the Son of God and the redeemer of humankind, I consistently fall very short of living a truly Christian life. My husband is an atheist, although he is a much better person than I in general. If you could see into our hearts, you would think he is the Christian and I the nonbeliever.

I am a Catholic and I have been taught that God indeed hates divorce. What I have never understood is how marriage relates to the concept of free will. We as human beings are made fallible and our nature is sinful and oftentimes we are just not as smart as we think we are. So, we marry. In my case, I married someone with whom I realized I am not at all compatible in most fundamental ways. I exercised my free will to marry....but upon realizing it was a mistake, according to the Bible, I am NOT supposed to use my free will to rectify that mistake, because divorce is an abomination. So....those of us who are believers are thereby sentenced to an earthly existence of misery? (Iím speaking in general terms; Iím not saying you personally are saying that.)

I donít want to continue doing things God hates. I already committed adultery; thatís enough. But nor do I want to spend my life being unhappy.

ChimneyTop posted 8/7/2019 12:52 PM

Darkness Falls,

I don't think you're coming off as debating, and I certainly don't want to come off that way.

I'd recommend talking to a priest to work through the happiness question you brought up, or at least read through the Imitation of Christ by Thomas A'Kempis.

My best recollection of the Catholic position is that divorce and remarriage is only allowed under the "Pauline privilege" (i.e. an unbelieving spouse abandons/ divorces the believing spouse). Other than that, I think remarriage can only happen if the marriage itself is anulled / invalidated by the church. One way I think this can happen is if one spouse finds out after the marriage that the other spouse was sexually active in a secretive way before the marriage.

In regards to your overall post, I share your sentiment that we' all fall short of the glory of God and that we don't always know what's right, which is why I said I'm not meaning to judge you in any way. I don't know you and have no authority in this situation, and even if I did, I prefer compassion over finger wagging.

My personal opinion on the happiness vs. duty thing is that sometimes doing the right thing sucks, and sometimes we can find peace and joy in just knowing that we're doing the right thing, but I prefer to not think of things in that context. Instead, I compare how hard it is for me to forgive my WW and engage her positively in the wake of her affair to God's forgiveness and
propitiation. I am so grateful that God is better than I.

Pippin posted 8/7/2019 17:24 PM

20yrsagoBS

If youíre a Christian, how have you reconciled breaking one of the Ten Commandments with your cheating? Arenít you scared about burning in Hell?

My religious background is: raised sort of Catholic, as an adult I attend Christian Science services from time to time (but I'm not class taught), mostly read the Bible on my own and pray, with occasional searches into other people's interpretations of the Bible to think about and understand areas I'm interested in. I've read Christian Science interpretations, Eldredge, Lewis, and a few others. At the time of the affair, I had not been going to church or praying for a long time, and I've resumed that now more than I ever have.

I believe the Ten Commandments were superseded/included in Jesus's instructions to love God and love one another. That encompasses the Ten Commandments and more - it encompasses thought as well as behavior.

I believe that I am forgiven insofar as I renounce sin. I have to renounce it fully and from the heart. Verbal expressions, asking forgiveness from a church representative, repeating prayers, getting on my knees and wailing, nailing a piece of paper with the sin on a wooden cross (I heard that on a podcast) are meaningless. They might help me get in the mindset of wanting to renounce or feel like some kind of punctuation, but forgiveness requires a totally clear and unequivocable intention to never sin again, hatred of the sin and loving the law from the heart. Then I'm forgiven. Not before that and not based on some behavior I can point to.

I believe that heaven and hell are experiences we have during life, not places we go after death. Closeness to God is heaven. Separation from God is hell. While I was cheating, I was most definitely in hell. I'm still there a lot of the time, but have glimpses of heaven and am trying to stay there as much as possible. I'm not sure what happens after death but I have plenty to deal with at the moment so that's for another day.

I'm very mindful of the rule against religious debate so I've answered strictly from my own POV/understanding and if there are responses that challenge or engage what I've written I'm happy to read them but won't respond. I don't want to be scolded or banned!

Pippin posted 8/7/2019 17:31 PM

AloneandDrowning

So was his issue during from Guilt or was he thinking of her? Was he honestly not satisfied with sex with me?

I didn't have this problem but the cognitive dissonance of an affair does a lot of strange things. I imagine the problem had little to nothing to do with you or physical sensation. It was probably guilt or shame or dishonesty.

My husband (the BH) has a super high sex drive and I can only think of two times in our lives where he had difficulty. Both of those times happened after the affair ended when I was still foggy and couldn't get out of it. It wrecked his ability. They say the brain is the strongest sex organ for women and I think it can also be true for men.

AloneAndDrowning posted 8/7/2019 19:10 PM

Thank you PIPPIN for answering. That was what I was hoping to hear to ease my heart some. He said (during) that I was imagining things, or it must be stress, or his weight. But I didnt believe that.
Then as soon as DDay came and went.. within a week we had the BEST sex we ever had.. that HB lasted a week or so. But now we still have good sex... better than it's been in awhile.
I know she was prettier than I, and thinner than I. So you know. I'm a bit shattered.

Gottagetthrough posted 8/8/2019 10:07 AM

JBWD- thank you for this message. Itís so close to what my Wh says happened, and Iím going to try to take it and believe
It.

The strange thing is when we were separated, when he was actively having an affair, I felt this intense connection to him. He said similar things- like he bought a car during the affair, and got one with third row seating so when my parent visited, weíd have room to take them and kids places. (Our old car was not big enough to fit everyone) . I laughed when he told me this- I was like, are you kidding, we Weíre actively divorcing, and you were trying to get me thrown in jail for not following the court order. He said, ďI didnít say it made sense, I just thought about us when I bought that car. I felt like weíd eventually get back together.Ē

Thank you for your post. Itís calmed some fears and anxiety of mine, and I hope to get through this time and really believe it from my husband. Heís a good man at the core .

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