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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Blindsided75 posted 4/10/2019 05:00 AM

My Ws has been going to massage parlours for so many years he cannot remember when it even started . I feel I cannot heal without valid why and at least a staritjng point . From what I can tell it is very early in our relationship around 9 or 10 years ago but my question for WS is it possible that he will not remember? Has any other Ws had a similar situation. He said he has pushed it far back in his memory to cope with his regular and excessive encounters

ff4152 posted 4/10/2019 09:31 AM

Blindsided

I had a LTA starting in 2009-10-11 (I honestly cannot remember) I cannot recall exact dates or times that my meetups occur. IMO, itís kind of like any life events that youíve had during your life. You may remember what you did, but are usually hard pressed to recall the date, much less the year.

On the why, thatís something your husband has to answer. I will caution you that getting to the true why could take time. In its most simplest form, he did it because he wanted to. Period. No one forced him to.

For me, Iíve since realized that I always had crappy boundaries. I was also a very selfish person who was only concerned with getting my needs met. I never tried to look at a situation through someone elseís eyes. I still struggle with that mightily but am getting a little better at it.

Darkness Falls posted 4/10/2019 10:08 AM

Blindsided,

Itís highly unlikely he can remember the exact date he first went to a massage parlor, and maybe not even the month, but I would think heíd have at least a good idea of the year.

I would also highly assume he knows why. The obvious is, he wanted the experience of whatever goes on there; from that point he should be able to extrapolate what he told himself to give himself permission to go through with it. I do think sometimes the why is as simple as ďwanted to, thought I could get away with it, BS isnít important enough not to do it.Ē JMHO.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 10:10 AM, April 10th (Wednesday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 4/10/2019 15:59 PM

My guess is that it's true that he's compartmentalized to the level where he has few specific memories. My memory of my A, 30 years ago, is a Swiss cheese. And I'll add, the presumed importance of the specific incidents seems to have no bearing on how well I remember them. I remember a random conversation at dinner but not the phone call where I went NC. I remember playing Pictionary but not the first time he put his hand down my pants.

The critical question, of course, is did I forget things because time passes, or because I chose to forget? Were the incidents just not that important to me, or so important that I blocked them out? Unfortunately, without the memories, the question is an infinite loop. I don't know exactly what happened, so I have no way to gauge its significance.

Candyman66 posted 4/10/2019 16:45 PM

BraveSirRobin, if those details are important to you OR your BH than maybe hypnosis? Just a thought.

Followtheriver posted 4/10/2019 17:57 PM

Candyman66,

I'll answer that question for you......

Your brain is like a computer, after awhile, it will start reformatting itself. Like a harddrive, when its memory is full, it gets rid of the memories that it doesn't need anymore to make room for new memories. After 30 years, the brain has reformatted itself many times over. During hypnosis, your brain may try to recall the memory you're looking for but if it can't, it can try and make one from parts of other memories but if it can't do that, it can make up a false memory. It all depends on how suggestible you are and how badly you want to recall, among other things.

I hope that answered your question....

BraveSirRobin posted 4/10/2019 19:45 PM

It's interesting that you say that, followtheriver, because that's exactly what I felt was happening in my head after D-Day 2, when I was actively trying to come clean. I had a hard time distinguishing between genuine memories and memories that were assembled from assumption and logic. And of course, because I'm a wayward with a long history of avoiding consequences by any means available, my mind seized on the doubt to say, "You don't know exactly what happened, so why even go there? You aren't SURE it happened that way, so really, are you sure it happened at all?" I was fighting that insidious inner voice tooth and nail, trying to compose an accurate account.

Candyman, I offered hypnosis a few weeks after D-Day 2. My BH declined because he doesn't put much faith in it. It's a little disheartening to hear that it might not be any more accurate than my conscious memory. It was comforting to think that it was something I could still do if he decided it was worth a try.

Candyman66 posted 4/10/2019 19:47 PM

OK thanks for the explanation. I have no personnel experience with it except I went on stage once and then was returned to the audience, he said I was not hypnotizable. Oh well.

ladysurvival posted 4/11/2019 11:08 AM

It is common for WS to continue to lie when first confronted?

Or, when first confronted, say that they are no longer in love with you and want out of the marriage?

hikingout posted 4/11/2019 11:27 AM

Yes, lady survival, all are common place...so much so people say there is a cheater handbook.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/11/2019 23:00 PM

It's not just common, it's almost universal. I wasn't caught, I ended my A and confessed voluntarily, but I still lied and minimized when I saw the devastation my answers were causing. It was far too easy to tell myself I was protecting my BH, thus excusing my own cowardice and fear of the consequences.

iamanidiot posted 4/12/2019 02:50 AM

During and immediately after the A's - there were so many lies that I believed. I ended up looking the other way just so that we could move on.
Now more than 30 years later I find out the actual truth.

It is common for WS to continue to lie when first confronted?

I know our memories change over time, especially 30 years. But there are so many loose holes in her stories. I honestly don't feel I have the WHOLE truth.

What was that ONE thing that got you all fired up to stop minimizing?
To open up, NO MATTER WHAT.
To get it all out there.
What made you WANT TO BE truthful to your spouse.

MrsWalloped posted 4/13/2019 22:31 PM

What was that ONE thing that got you all fired up to stop minimizing?
To open up, NO MATTER WHAT.
To get it all out there.
What made you WANT TO BE truthful to your spouse.

My husbandís ability to get through to me that I had one chance to totally open up and give him the answers he needed and be open and honest. It crystallized for me that this was my only chance at possibly keeping my marriage and staying together as a family. He didnít make any guarantees. But he told me that if I lied then we were done for sure. I knew he wasnít kidding and I guess that was enough to overcome any thoughts of self preservation.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/14/2019 10:41 AM

Posted too early, editing...

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:43 AM, April 14th (Sunday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 4/14/2019 11:22 AM

My BH initiated our second D-Day by saying that he had some things to ask me about the A I had 29 years ago. He told me that he basically already knew the answers but needed me to confirm them. I had a good idea of what was coming. I knew he had been thinking about the A again; I attributed it to some midlife crisis discussions we'd been having over the last two years. About a month earlier, when we were on a romantic getaway weekend, he had said that "If there's anything I don't know about the A, I don't want to know." I guess the relief that washed through me was physically visible. I had significantly minimized both the EA and PA details, and while I convinced myself that I was protecting him, I still felt guilty about the lies. Of course, seeing that reaction make him wonder what I was so relieved about, and we'd been dancing around the subject ever since. On D-Day 2, he very calmly stated that he knew I had had sex with OM more than one time that night, and in more than one position. I said yes. That yes was the single most difficult syllable I had ever spoken, but at least I got it out. I don't think I would have been able to manage whole sentence by myself.

I wish I could say that opened the floodgates, and I came completely clean. Instead, I got stomach cramps. He was driving me to work, and we had to stop so I could use a gas station bathroom. I stood there looking in the mirror, and the whole world felt surreal. He knew. After 29 years, he knew. I thought I was taking this information to the grave. He would never have known, never have had any WAY of knowing if I hadn't admitted it. Had I just made the worst mistake of my life? Was there a chance he'd leave me? Or stay, and just hate me? Note all the me, me, me in these questions.

Over the next few weeks, understandably, BH's two primary concerns were dealing with the implications of my disclosure and finding out anything else he needed to know. It was tricky because he was trying to develop coping mechanisms at the same time that he was dragging information out of me. He wasn't sure how much detail he could handle, so he asked me to give him the "high water marks," anything that would change his understanding of the nature of the A. Alas, this was far too much discretion for me to handle responsibly. I spent my entire adult life ignoring his right to understand the nature of the A. I had depicted the night I slept with OM as a last minute decision, practically an accident, a single brief instance where even my consent was a misunderstanding. In fact, I agreed to it ahead of time, helped plan a getaway, used extra contraception, exchanged romantic declarations, actively invited him to do the deed, and engaged in sex in multiple positions for the entire night. EVERYTHING I had been withholding would change BH's understanding of the nature of the A. That's why I withheld it. But instead of acknowledging that, I told myself these details were just details, unnecessarily painful ones that didn't change what he knew. He knew we'd had sex, that it was a PA. He knew we exchanged I love yous, that it was an EA. That was the nature of the A, right? So he knew. Yeah, right.

The way I got to coming clean was not a single thing my BH said or did. It was the domino effect of TT. Each time the guilt resurged, each time he said "If there's anything else, I just need to know it," I gradually let go of whatever the next-worst element was. And I'm so ashamed to say, I would announce "That's it, that's everything," because in my fucked-up rationalization, it was. It was everything I thought I'd ever dare to admit. The rest was double-locked in a file cabinet labeled "Don't look, didn't happen." But that file cabinet wouldn't stay ignored. It would rattle and creak over the course of several days, and the next time BH would ask, I'd find that one of the locks was now weak enough to break.

It was somewhere along in here that I finally found it in myself to stop looking at me, me, me and see what this was doing to BH. To consider that if the outcome of all this TT was for him to decide he had to leave me, that could possibly be the best thing for him. It was a terrifying but oddly freeing moment. It was no longer "What if this breaks us?!" and instead "Dear God, this may break us." I finally accepted the obvious, that what I had done 29 years ago, and the lies after it, were real and consequential whether I admitted they were or not. The outcome wasn't actually my decision to make, and I could put that responsibility down. It was awful that the decision would then become his responsibility, but I had to believe him that he wanted it and trust him to make his own choices.

I did finally break the last lock (which, for me, was the phrasing of the invitation), and of course, the $100,000 question for any BS is how to tell that their WH's "last lock" is really the last one. I wish I had an answer. I know my BH desperately wishes I had an answer. He believes me, but he doesn't. How can he? For so long, I couldn't be believed. I couldn't believe myself.

I don't know if that's any help. I'd like to think that I'd have had the sense showed by Mrs. Walloped, that if BH had said "now or never, one lie and I'm gone," I'd have come clean all at once. I just don't know, though. I'm scared that I'd have had more faith in my ability to lie than in my ability to stop lying, and I'd have rolled the dice.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 5:44 PM, April 14th (Sunday)]

foreverlabeled posted 4/14/2019 11:43 AM

What made you WANT TO BE truthful to your spouse.
It was a personal choice, but only after learning the importance of the truth. Even though at the same time I was also realizing that it very well could be the end and do us in. There was a switch in my thinking from all about me to all about him. It wasn't easy to make that choice, it would have been easier to remain a liar. There was a switch within myself too, I didn't really want to be the person I was. There was only one way to break the chains, honesty. I had nothing to lose at that point.

I tend to think I'm a fast learner, and I was quick to be informed here! Informed that I gotta own it. And the truth is I didn't even believe myself when I tried to blame shift and minimize it all.. it just "felt" better to put it off on someone or something else. If you aren't ready to own it, you won't get very far and the minimizing will continue.

Comfort is huge to the cheating type. It's extremely uncomfortable to acknowledge and feel the gravity of our actions. If we can just ease that discomfort with minimizing all the better. I guess what fired me up was this was my husband we are talking about, someone I vowed to protect. When people make enough false promises words stop meaning anything. I didn't know how or have the tools to uphold my word but his pain somehow brought about a sense of defeat within myself and I felt it so hard that I let him down and myself for that matter. It was the least I could do to try and make a turn around.

At all costs my comfort seemed of very little importance anymore.

[This message edited by foreverlabeled at 11:49 AM, April 14th (Sunday)]

iamanidiot posted 4/15/2019 03:13 AM

MrsWalloped - I met my spouse 43 years ago. Giving a final ultimatum like that at this stage of our lives just won't work.

BraveSirRobin - Thank you for sharing. At least you give me a better understanding of those days. She is probably at the "Don't look, didn't happen." phase.

foreverlabeled - The idea of comfort & living past the truth makes sense to me.

When I asked her to tell me, she said that it was bad, Very Bad!! - I think I'm at the point where I can accept that there is more, that it could be worse. She did open up briefly and it was quite a shock.
BUT now, 4 years later, I think that I can move on, without asking any more. Acceptance.

It just would be nice KNOWING there were NO more secrets between us.

hikingout posted 4/15/2019 09:26 AM

What made me want to be truthful is that I wanted to see if the marriage could be saved and I knew for that to happen I had to put everything on the table. In the two months between the affair ending and my confession, I wrestled with whether to tell or not. I went to IC, I read here. The counselor did not feel I should tell. I read stories here that the bsís were writing and in the end their case was more compelling. It made me
Realize if there was a chance of having an honest, authentic relationship with emotional intimacy - I had no choice. My telling was selfish though. I did it to achieve what I wanted not to do what my husband needed. But it still ended up being the right thing to do. I fired that counselor and found another one and sit down and told him. It wasnít a long affair, the details were fresh still. The only thing that dragged out was he didnít want the sexual details at first. He got them later outside of wanting to know early on how many times and a few speoific confirmations of acts.

maise posted 4/17/2019 07:07 AM

To add to the question on what made you want to stop lying, how long after d-day did it take you to get there?

My WS has been lying throughout this process. She revealed she had been talking to her ex during her third affair as recently as last month. Drove to APís house March 5th after I wouldnít talk to her the entire day bc I was frustrated with her and wanted badly to be able to walk away. After driving to APís house (leaving our kids with a family member to do so), she downed a bottle and a half of NyQuil as an attempted suicide. She insists AP wasnít home. She insists she has no more lies...yet just last week she lied about something I literally watched her do. Nothing affair related - it was actually something ridiculous to lie about but a mistake made on her part none the less.

On another note, who really knows if sheís even stopped talking to the AP in times of distress considering the drive to her house so recently. Sigh.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/17/2019 09:59 AM

To add to the question on what made you want to stop lying, how long after d-day did it take you to get there?
Depends on how you measure it. From D-Day 1, 29 years. I disclosed what I was prepared to admit and lied about the rest. My BF didn't ask repeated questions after the first few months, and we rugswept almost completely after getting engaged, so the A went largely unexamined for decades. After D-Day 2, about a month to get from the first "That's it, that's everything" to the real "That's it, that's everything."

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