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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Barregirl posted 3/30/2019 19:23 PM

Hi LMLMN. My BH and I were going through a very prolonged stretch of difficulties in the bedroom. What the AP gave me was an orgasm when my BH had not in at least 2 years, honestly. My BH and I have overcome our difficulties now and have frequent "porn star" sex. We did discuss the need for our sex life to change and we both had to fix some things in ourselves for that to happen. I guess my thing is not super specific, but we both knew it needed to get fixed in order to even have a shot of successful R.

Darkness Falls posted 3/30/2019 20:24 PM

"What was the most exciting thing sexually (like off the charts exciting) that your OW/OM did to you, for you or with you that your BS does not do to you, for you or with you?”

There wasn't anything the AP and I did that I hadn't done with my husband, but one thing the AP was very good at was performing oral sex, which I had already known from our dating days. My husband does not happen to be very skilled at this, so I guess that's the only thing that qualifies as sort of an answer to your question.

"Have you ever asked your BS to do that specific thing or did you not ask for the fear of triggering them since they might think it was something that you had done with the AP?"

I guess I've asked him to do it, or at least sort of nudged him in that direction, a few times---but I don't particularly get much out of it when he does it, so it's not something I go out of my way to try to get him to do. He and I have never talked about the specifics of my sex life with AP and never will, so I don't consider him triggering WRT sex acts.

Brennan87 posted 3/31/2019 19:46 PM

Brave...

As I told hiking, it breaks my heart to know what you’ve gone through. No one deserves or should go through that.

Your response helped a piece fit for me, one I was t necessarliy focused on but one that was out there.

I believe my WWs AP toward the end began focusing on her lack of feelings and emotion toward him. While I don’t think he had feelings for her, I think it was more control and power. As he tried introducing them holding each other (which was too personal for her) and he brought this up often. The “I love yous started around this time, which if I believe her she would respond with “only in it for sex/sexting, we both have families. This was said one a week during the last five weeks. So I can see the similarities between her AP and yours (different motivations) that I hadn’t looked at before. Thank you for helping me put this piece together!

BraveSirRobin posted 3/31/2019 22:47 PM

I'm glad it helped a bit, Brennan. It's something I'm still working on, the question of OM's motivations. The simplest and most unfortunate explanation was that he wanted to get me in the sack, and it worked. He made me feel guilty about leaving, so sex was a kind of consolation prize. If that's true, though, the weird thing is that he continued the pursuit for months after he moved thousands of miles away. I'd like to think I hold my own in the bedroom, but there's no way that anything I did would merit moving heaven and earth to make it happen again when other sexual opportunities were far more available and convenient. Nor did he know me well enough to feel real, lasting love. So I'm left to conclude that there was something fucked up in his own story that made him need to fabricate that connection to me. Not that he matters at all anymore, but it's hard to unpack my side of the story without making some nominal sense of his role in it. The idea that it was just a power play is one I'll have to think about, too.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:48 PM, March 31st (Sunday)]

Want2BHappyAgain posted 4/1/2019 22:31 PM

Thank you BraveSirRobin for your reply . It actually helped me to gain a little insight into what the adultery co-conspirator was probably thinking/feeling.

She told my H that she had several A’s though...one of which her H found out about and divorced her. She was definitely a broken person when she met my H...and I have been praying for her healing. She never told my H about anything from her youth though...but she did tell him her first A was with her Aunt’s boyfriend...because she admired him from when she was a child. Who knows...maybe her “Uncle” was grooming her to use her...which is appalling to me.

Your thoughts you wrote about from your A... I could see them being very similar to HER thoughts too. Except...like your AP...she started building up the romantic heat... and my H knew that if he played along...it would keep her coming back. He said he should have ended it when she said she had fallen in love with him...but his time in her country was limited...he had his A while working overseas. So he decided...in his words...to ride the ride until the park closed.

This is my 2nd M...and my 1st M ended when I caught my XWH cheating on me. I did the “pick me dance” like a pro...and my XWH came back...only I caught him with another adultery co-conspirator almost 2 years later. THIS DDay...there was NO “pick me dance”. As soon as my H confessed to his A...I told him the M was over. I believe that this factored in to my H getting that fantasy land bubble popped. I believe if he was given the “pick me dance” like you were...he would not have been able to see things as clearly. He did still think the adultery co-conspirator cared for him...until her reply gave him a rude awakening.

This has really helped me...and I appreciate your thoughtful reply !

Hickoryapple posted 4/2/2019 00:50 AM

I've read lots of things on here about WS thinking during the A, and after being outed, thanks to all WS who post this stuff, it does help to understand possibilities, as my WS is not generally very introspective or forthcoming wrt emotions and motivations.

I suspect that exit affairs by male WS are less common, and I'm guessing that my situation is perhaps even less common. Ie WS planned an exit affair, and when it was established, told me he thought we should break up. No mention of OW or any reasons other than it wasn't working. At the time, we were going through a rough patch, as he'd joined the military after 7 years together and was away most of the time, which I wasn't happy about, but was dealing with it. I was upset, and after a short time, he changed his mind and said he would try to make us work (or something).

So my q to WS is, is there a different mindset to having an exit affair, and why would someone in that situation say they were leaving (after seeing OW once a week for 2 months for dinner and sex) but then change their mind?

The only reason I can come up with is guilt. Which isn't a good reason to stay together.

hikingout posted 4/2/2019 13:49 PM

Hickory-

I don’t know if the mindset is different or not because I have only had 1 affair (can’t tell you how it would be different- nothing to compare it too.

In hindsight I consider mine an exit affair because in reading I now think that’s what it was. But the reasons I had the exit weren’t about my husband but being unhappy. I blamed my circumstances and life but really it was all on me. I changed my mind because I recognized that before it was too late. I don’t stay out of guilt, I stay because I genuinely love my husband and understand the voids I had were not his fault and something I needed to address myself.

Shatteredvow posted 4/2/2019 15:15 PM

@Darkesthour215, APs who end up marrying each other find out soon that their marriages don't last.
1. What they had was just fantasy, the reality sets in when they marry. They begin to see what they never saw hitherto in their APs, this can quickly lead to divorce.
2. There will be trust issue, since the relationship is based on deception, they can never truly trust each other. That's another ground for quick divorce.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/2/2019 22:43 PM

So he decided...in his words...to ride the ride until the park closed.
Ouch. Well, the phrasing is painful, but apt. My A probably would have been shorter -- might even have ended before getting to full sex -- if it didn't have the logical end point of his graduation. I figured I could enjoy the good parts (in my case, the romance and validation) while they were available and put up with the irritating parts because it wasn't forever. If I had been single, we'd have progressed to sex much sooner, but it would have quickly fizzled out because those same irritations would not have been acceptable to me on a potentially permanent basis.

The irony of the fucked-up wayward mindset is that having a good relationship/marriage can make it easier to tolerate a flawed AP. I actually remember thinking to myself, "If this were a real relationship, I'd never put up with this shit" -- said shit being OM turning up very late when he was supposed to meet me, or criticizing something I wore as too revealing, etc. I had a great BF and knew what it felt like to be treated well. I wouldn't have traded that for the empty ego kibble the OM offered, but I was cake eating and figured I could have both. I was compartmentalizing, so I never thought, "BF wouldn't do this," because I tried not to think about BF and the consequences of the A once things were heating up. It was always "If this were real," which made it feel less consequential and less threatening.

ETA: Hickoryapple, obviously my A was not intended to be an exit affair, but it strikes me that this is one possible reason for your WH's about-face. Post-breakup, he may have been sitting there with her thinking, "Wait a minute, am I now going to have to listen to this boring bullshit indefinitely?" Then, the previously forbidden comparison,"HickoryApple would never say/do that," and then "Crap, maybe this isn't such a good idea after all." It's very selfish reasoning, but waywards are masters at that.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 11:00 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

maise posted 4/3/2019 08:13 AM

For waywards that have put in work toward recovery...when you think of the affair now, and when you think of sex with AP vs your spouse now, how do they compare?

Every single article I’ve ever read talks about how affair sex is mind blowing...they go as far as to say it’s the best sex. Of course, given the secrecy and control over not only the AP but the BS through manipulation, this adds a different element of thrill and release of chemicals in your brain when in sex with AP. So how does all of this excitement, thrill, and fantasy in affair sex ever dull out in comparison to married sex? Will married sex ever hold the title of best sex after such an experience?

Barregirl posted 4/3/2019 11:46 AM

Hi Maise. Sex with my BH before the affair was so awful that we just stopped trying to have any. The sex with my AP was ok. It got the job done, but it certainly wouldn't even come close to being the best sex I've ever had. After dday, my BH and I have really ramped it up in the bedroom. I am introducing him to the fun side of kink and toys and we are both having a blast. Married sex is waaaay better than affair sex, for me at least.

maise posted 4/3/2019 11:50 AM

Hi Barregirl,

Thanks so much for responding! It’s good to hear that AP sex isn’t always the mind blowing scenario the internet researches kept bringing up. I know everyone is different of course, hopefully my situation will land somewhere in the realm of yours where your married sex is hands down the best now.

maise posted 4/3/2019 12:09 PM

I wanted to add my situation...

My WS has always wanted to be ‘dominant’ or achieve some level of power or control...always fantasized about a big ass on women...

WS also always complained that she had never been with someone that wasn’t ‘submissive’ and didn’t know how to handle me...I told her I wasn’t sure why she saw things that way and that I was just being myself. Sure she can be more dominant in sex or whatever but as for in person, I’m just me. I don’t seek control or whatever else. I don’t see things that way...honestly fairness is something I strive for.
Honesty, respect, communication and fairness.

For the affair sex, WS got different elements:

-Secrecy
-Thrill
-Control of her AND me
-On demand no matter where or when

And the cherry on top of the cake, AP had a huge ass.

This sort of gives WS everything they sought out for...I’ll never give those things. How will my sex ever compare or be as ‘exciting’?

[This message edited by maise at 12:15 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

hikingout posted 4/3/2019 12:14 PM

For me, married sex is better. My h knows my body so much better than anyone else that he can really do some mind blowing things. I love him, he just does it for me!

Sex with ap was more about the build up and so less about being excited about him but being excited about me. It was more about getting to play a role so the sex stuff was more mental. When it actually happened I was more in my head than anything else. It was a bit awkward and clumsy to be honest. There is no comparison in terms of mechanics.

Also I feel so badly about it that it really isn’t something I want to think about. It was the worst decision in my life and looking back at who I was and that I was vulnerable to another crappy human being is sickening to me. It holds no fond memories.

ChanceAtLife35 posted 4/3/2019 12:36 PM

WW here. I have never had a good relationship with sex nor did I know how to show "love" or make my W feel "Special like she deserved". To honestly describe myself in my A, I was a dark manipulating using asshole who only cared about my needs like I have been what seems like my entire life. Sex with the AP was very aggressive, emotionally unavailable, and I swear I felt like was trying to ooze my pain that I had trapped for years into her body. Yes, it's intense, yes I like the dominance, power, and control. But I don't know this person at all, we have nothing in common, I cared 2 Fux about the AP's life. I literally used her for sex, distraction, escapism, validation, and to runaway from my pain that I could no longer handle. I was a shell of a person with so many masks on I lost count. It's mind boggling how much I failed not to see what I was risking which was a marriage to my BEAUTIFUL W and AMAZING 2 kids, I had a good career, family that loved me. I just needed to get the right help. Instead, I turned into what felt like a psychotic obsessed sex and attention whore using my body that came from my mother's wound.

Using my body in ways that showed just how low my self worth is. It was all a fantasy. I would have sex and walk away like okay done with you bye. I treated her with charm to keep the AP from going elsewhere because I was selfish with my needs. Gosh just writing this is so painful. What happiness is this? SEX with my W is BEST because she is the first woman to ever make me cry during sex(something I didn't fully understand). She showed me real love, passion, security, and safety. She knows my body more than I know it. I loved holding her afterwards until we fell asleep or laughing at awkward things that happened during. I want to apologize profusely for not showing her the real love she deserved. A sex is never worth it. The distorted thinking I had during about it breaks my heart into pieces.

Yes, my ego was stroked, I felt like someone but it was all because of the validation and the fasad that was created of me. UGH....

BraveSirRobin posted 4/3/2019 15:13 PM

Will married sex ever hold the title of best sex after such an experience?
Yes, absolutely. The best sex I've ever had was with my BH, both before and after the A. I say this by every possible measure -- intensity of orgasm, number of orgasms, positions in which I achieved orgasm, emotional connection, familiarity with my body, everything. I hope that's not TMI, but I think that when WS say that sex was better with the BS because of the love, that sounds like code for "yeah, none of us want to admit that physically, nothing tops it." That could well be true for some WS, but it's not universally the case, because it wasn't for me.

That's the good news. The bad news is that you aren't wrong about it being good sex. Again, it's possible that for some WS, the actuality didn't live up to the imagination, but for me, it felt good. I'm a sexual person. I hadn't had sex in months at the time of the A (I was in a LDR with BH, who was BF at the time), and after a period of deprivation, I respond strongly. Plus we both knew it was the only night we'd ever do it, so that imparts a certain urgency. You'd think that would make it the most memorable sex ever, right?

Here's the craziest part: I barely remember most of it. I have fleeting impressions that tell me what I just described to you, but I really, truly could not give you many details. I know we did it in more than one position, and the order of positions. I remember my first orgasm, but I only know he came, I don't remember specifics. Some "memories" are little more than assumptions ("we were in bed all night, there must have been more than one orgasm, yeah, I'm pretty sure there was"). But I'm sure as hell not treasuring it, because when I started to understand what the A had done to my BF, what it had cost him and me, the LAST THING I wanted to do was ruminate about the sex. I couldn't get rid of the memories fast enough. There was no good that could come to anyone in holding on to it (or so I thought; I wish I had written an account of the details in a clinical fashion, because now there's a lot of mystery to it that I can never set to rest for my BF-turned-BH).

All of my best sexual memories are with my husband. He rocks my world and always did; the A was never about that for me.

Darkness Falls posted 4/3/2019 15:45 PM

maise,

The AP was the best sexual partner I’ve ever had, but not because of the A—he was my ex and he was the best I’ve ever had long before we had an A.

Jimmy1962 posted 4/3/2019 16:02 PM

Waywards, here is a question for you.
I had a post in general that was locked. I had many answers but they did not get to what I meant.
When you crossed the line, did you know that the marriage was changed? In other words, after you pissed in the lemonade, did you then continue to drink the lemonade as normal or did you realize that it had piss in it. Your spouse of course kept drinking it and did not know piss was in it until DDay.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/3/2019 17:22 PM

Can you explain what you mean by continuing to drink it as normal? Between my ending the A and disclosing it on D-Day, I had the growing understanding that I had done something that could end my relationship. I did not have any understanding of the magnitude of the shitstorm I had created until after D-Day, and frankly, not until long after that. I thought the two options were "he'll dump me" or "he'll be angry, and we'll both be sad, but eventually, we'll get past it." But the real outcome, "He'll be trapped in a traumatized hell for years regardless of whether we stay together" was definitely not on my radar.

Jimmy1962 posted 4/3/2019 17:32 PM

What I mean is: for me my marriage was special, it was innocent, it was pure, until DDay. Then it became a toilet bowl. When you crossed the line did the marriage loose the innocence and pureness to you. In my marriage there was a 20 year delay between the affair and me finding out. I thought I had this sweet, pure marriage all of that time. At DDay it became tainted. If I had found out earlier, it would have been tainted earlier. The betrayer knows at a certain instant that the marriage is tainted???

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