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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Sayuwontletgo posted 11/20/2018 19:59 PM

This is so lonely- I didnít do anything with AP that I hadnít done with my H. There were a few things I told AP flat out no on in fact. It was like I had boundaries but they were so compartmentalized and selfishly warped itís hard to explain. If you ask your WS about it specifically I bet he might tell you that he feels gross about sexting in general now. If itís something that youíd like to reclaim eventually for the two of you though he should be honest about why he felt okay to do that with AP but not you. I hope he is honest with you and stays committed to doing the work.

Sdynee posted 11/20/2018 22:20 PM

"Now my question is, is there any Waywards who wound up staying with the AP, and marrying them
What was your mindset how did you feel about the BH"

DarkestHour215 - I have this same question. I also appreciate the honest input from any WS. I am not here to judge or bash either.

I am wondering what WS feels about BS after DDay when they choose to stay with AP yet don't move forward with their relationship with AP, and yet still don't do anything to finalize situation with BS.

My WH and I have been separated almost a year now and I don't believe he has any true remorse. He still makes me feel like nothing, yet makes no attempt to finally end the M. He also has not moved forward with AP in that he still won't tell our kids or his family about her but won't stop seeing her. It's not like he wants to R because that is crystal clear he does not, so what kind of cake eating is this? or is it something else I just don't get? It's like we are just stuck in limbo land. I know I can make a move, but I am wondering what WS or AP are thinking in this kind of situation. How rewarding of a relationship can that be? Is it fear of the A becoming normal and boring or something else? or is it fear of me no longer being the safe "go to" when all else fails? I'm trying to get inside the WS head and understand what their state of mind is with all of this.

I feel the WS would still only be thinking of himself. If/when does the WS ever get past this and feel any guilt or remorse, or do they just really not care about the BS? Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but don't know if I'm wording this in a way that makes sense.


remorseandgrief posted 11/21/2018 18:08 PM

ButterflyBeauty,


I want to address your question:
"How do you, as a WS, face what you have done, dig deep and change?"

It takes years. The question I have to answer is, "How could I have been the kind of person who was capable of betraying my husband so deeply?"

As others have said, it takes a long time to admit the ugly truth. And it is a lifelong process.

First I had to understand the depth of the pain and trauma I caused him. This took years of trying to take his point of view, instead of my self-centered point of view. I was helped in this by reading books and articles and posts on SI, but mostly by my husband telling me how he felt and what he was thinking. So tell your husband what you feel and think. Whenever it comes up, whenever you think about it. Whenever he seems "to completely miss it." This is hard and full of strong emotions and is part of the roller coaster.

Then I was helped by IC. With my first therapist I mostly focused on my selfish interests. With the second therapist I began to understand the seriousness of my character defects, where they originated, and how they contributed to being the person I was--always trying to please others, seeking approval from others, having little sense of an authentic self without that constant approval. I was also secretive and deceptive and immoral. I was totally self-centered. I could not face the smallest difference of opinion or conflict. I shut down, turned away. I had little empathy for others, especially my husband. These are hard issues to confront in myself. In the process I felt a total failure in life and completely worthless.

Then I began to realize that I might be able to
become a decent person. I try to focus on what my husband needs and deserves. I try to be worthy of him.

remorseandgrief posted 11/21/2018 22:38 PM

A question often asked by the BS to the WS is, "How could you do this to me?" This usually elicits from the WS, "Because I felt A." "I was unhappy with B." "You did C." "I wanted D." These are all self-centered and self-serving and defensive answers.

The important question is "How was it possible that you, the WS, are the kind of person who would do this?" What is it in your character that allowed you to do this?

Sdynee posted 11/21/2018 23:09 PM

I originally posted this in the LTA forum but someone suggested I posted in this one instead, so sorry if anyone already read it over there!

To anyone involved in a LTA, if you were involved for many years with AP what made you want to stay with your BS after DDay other than the guilt of getting caught, and is your heart really in it. I would think after several years of an A there must be real feelings for AP so why not just move on to a relationship with them and leave your unwanted BS? I cannot wrap my head around LTA. It seems so simple that leaving the BS for who you obviously want to be with would make sense. How anyone can carry on this way of life is just so hard for me to understand. I am not judging, just looking for input from people who can relate. The healing process has many stages. I am so thankful for these forums.

amethyst0323 posted 11/23/2018 02:54 AM



Amethyst- I am sorry.
One thing is for sure I donít think many of us ws actually feel like we are risking anything we are so self absorbed and just think we are completely covered. Not a lot will make sense in a situation that someone is preoccupied with an escape from reality, the energy all goes to that rather than really stopping and thinking things through...at least for many of us.

Many, especially men, can compartmentalize to the degree they can be present with their spouse sexually and in other ways. What does your husband say? I realize itís hard for you to believe what he says but I just wonder how open he is and how reasonably feasible his answers are?

My husband in the main has been fantastic. He talks every night, it is him that starts conversations and gently gets me to talk about what is upsetting me.

I told him about my post and he again say he never did think about during sex with me, I guess all I can do is believe what he says and hope his lies have stopped now.

It's the what ifs that are killing me now. What if I had done this or that, what if that night I was away both my kids had had the sleepovers I had planned - would they have had sex in my bed? etc etc.

How did you all help your BS 's move on from constantly looking back to the what ifs? He says he suffers the same with what ifs but is trying to focus on the now and understand that we will never know what would have happened if the what ifs had happened

He asks me what he can do and most of the time my reply is I don't know because I genuinely don't know what will help me

ff4152 posted 11/23/2018 06:02 AM

Hi Sdynee

I had a 5+ year LTA with my AP. My situation is a little different than most in that I ended the A and have not had a dday (yet)

Why didnt I leave? Well my thinking at the time was, why should I? Iím getting most of my needs met at home and the ones that arenít, my AP takes care of. My needs are getting met so life is great right?

The truth is, I always knew that I was viewing my AP through rose colored glasses and even said as much to her once or twice. I will admit I thought I was in love with her but something held me back from leaving my wife. Partly out of fear but I really think, deep down I knew what I had at home was real.

You, like many BS cannot understand this because you have good coping mechanisms in place. Youíre trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. Cheating is the epitome of selfish behavior. We WS only cared about what was best for us and we were going to do whatever it took to satisfy those needs, consequences be damned.

Of course I now see what I was searching for was in front of me all along.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 8:02 AM, November 25th (Sunday)]

WilliamM posted 11/23/2018 17:30 PM

Did you ever share personal or family information that you now wished you had not? If so how did you explain it to BS? Was it something very negative about BS and why did you share it?

Lucky77 posted 11/24/2018 18:26 PM

Hello Sdynee,

To anyone involved in a LTA, if you were involved for many years with AP what made you want to stay with your BS after DDay other than the guilt of getting caught, and is your heart really in it.

I am sorry for the limbo that you find yourself in.

I guess you could say I had an LTA although I'd call it more like 1000 day-long A's. My AP and I had quite a rythm going. She was #2 in my life and I #2 in hers. We were both each other's side piece. We did not know where the relationship would go. We had no goals. Neither wanted to leave our spouse. We just carried on a day at a time as each other's secret BF/GF.

I can understand your WH's lack of ability to commit. He loves both. He had both for years. Now he has to choose. He has no idea which way to turn. He knows either path means for intense heartbreak.

I just thought I'd speak up and say you've been heard. I can't help your WH. I do hope you find some peace and get some resolution. It seems like its up to one of you to make a move. You don't seem to think he will. Do you see yourself making the move? I could picture him just not having the guts to act. I wonder if he's quietly holding out for you to act which would then force his hand (??). I would say your old M is dead. Any hope for the future would need to be some type of reimagined M. A fresh start of some type. His betrayal is very deep though.

His love for the AP isn't real. It's la la land. It's fantasy. A Disney movie. They all end though.

[This message edited by Lucky77 at 6:32 PM, November 24th (Saturday)]

EvolvingSoul posted 11/24/2018 19:51 PM

Hi there Sdynee,

To anyone involved in a LTA, if you were involved for many years with AP what made you want to stay with your BS after DDay other than the guilt of getting caught, and is your heart really in it. I would think after several years of an A there must be real feelings for AP so why not just move on to a relationship with them and leave your unwanted BS?
I'm one of those people who had a very long affair and thought I loved both my BS and AP. I did not want to give up either, but my BS gave me an ultimatum even before he knew it was a PA. He just knew he didn't want AP in our lives anymore and told me in no uncertain terms that I could have a relationship with AP or with him, but not both.

I did go NC with AP but sat on the fence about who I would choose for months. During those months I started getting educated about the nature of infidelity and about five months in I realized that it was not really a choice between BS and AP. It was a choice between mental health and not mental health. AP was never going to be a mentally healthy option for me, no matter the outcome of my marriage. I wish I could say I had been worried about BS's happiness at that point but honestly I was still just thinking about me and how I could end up being happy. I knew I had a shot with BS and so it seemed the best bet to try, even if it didn't work out.

Over the next few years as I began to dig down into how and why I had been able to betray my BS and my own integrity I came to realize that my whole view of relationships and marriage was pretty screwed up. I had been understanding them as transactional and had a pretty hefty sense of entitlement to boot. I did not really treat people as people, but more as sources of feelings for me. It took a long time to identify and then tear down that infrastructure and build the new. As I did, my priorities changed and for the first time I became fully invested in my marriage, or in any relationship for that matter. Before I had always held back some part of myself. I was terrified to go all in and be emotionally vulnerable. I'm so, so glad that I finally got there. Forever grateful to my BS for still loving me and being in my life. It feels like we're really partners now.

hikingout posted 11/26/2018 10:16 AM

It's the what ifs that are killing me now. What if I had done this or that, what if that night I was away both my kids had had the sleepovers I had planned - would they have had sex in my bed? etc etc.
How did you all help your BS 's move on from constantly looking back to the what ifs? He says he suffers the same with what ifs but is trying to focus on the now and understand that we will never know what would have happened if the what ifs had happened
He asks me what he can do and most of the time my reply is I don't know because I genuinely don't know what will help me


Sometimes it takes some time for a BS to realize that nothing they did or didn't do caused the affair. The What-ifs I think are just parts of the bargaining stages of grief. The reality of it is that all the things your husband did, he did because he wanted to, he felt entitled to...and that has nothing to do with you. I know it's hard to believe. Think back though, I am sure there have been times you haven't felt happy with your husband. You didn't cheat. Why? Because you didn't have the character defects that he does. It's those defects that he must work to correct in order to be a safe partner. See how that doesn't involve any what ifs on your part?

What can he do?

Consistency over time, working on himself to be a better man. There is no quick fix. It's going to take time for him to make the changes he needs, it's going to take time for him to demonstrate that change, and it's going to take time for you to heal as well. You are right, there is nothing he can do to make you feel better and for this to go away. But, he can consistently show up and be with you every day in any way he can.

destroyedwayward posted 11/27/2018 12:01 PM

@sdynee

How anyone can carry on this way of life is just so hard for me to understand. I am not judging, just looking for input from people who can relate.

I apologize if does not relate 100%, because my A was not an LTA, but I hope this offers something. As a WW, there is a duality that develops when we decided to "break" from the person our BS chose to be with. Of course, my BH didn't marry the woman who is capable of betraying him. Who would willingly do that, right? It doesn't matter what duality it is, how we justify it, or what we tell ourselves to be able to push aside the fact of what we're doing. Whether it's an EA, PA, SA, and/or LTA, we lead 2 lives. When the truth comes out, depending on how well or how long the WS was able to keep those 2 lives separate, the "fog" takes time to dissipate. I think the fog isn't just pertaining to feelings the WS had for the A or AP, it is the fog of that that type of duality because there is only 1 reality. For me, I've felt that in order to reconcile the "break", I had fortify all the weaknesses that contributed to my whys. After all, you deserve to be wanted by someone who you want, and that someone should be whole.

tapered posted 11/27/2018 12:35 PM


Iím in the process of divorce (I filed), otherwise I would remain in limbo for I donít know how long. I would like to know, for WS that have been in LTA (my WS and AP: almost 4 1/2 years, long distance relationship), is their love affair true/real at this point and time since affair has been going on for this long?? Why would a WS not leave sooner (WS 54, me BS 58) so he can be with AP 54 while they are still young?
If my WS marries his AP, it will be my WS 2nd marriage and AP 3rd marriage.
Unfortunately, in my case, my WS has shown no remorse about affair that is why Iím thinking their love must be real.

likeapinball posted 11/27/2018 21:37 PM

@tapered - their "love" isn't real. Any relationship that has to be kept hidden, that doesn't deal with the everyday "details" (kids, finances, aging parents, bills, whatever) isn't real at all. It's an unsustainable fantasy world. The WS doesn't leave because they're enjoying both the real world (with their BS) and the fake, fantasy one.

EvolvingSoul posted 11/27/2018 22:10 PM

Hi there tapered,

for WS that have been in LTA (my WS and AP: almost 4 1/2 years, long distance relationship), is their love affair true/real at this point and time since affair has been going on for this long?? Why would a WS not leave sooner (WS 54, me BS 58) so he can be with AP 54 while they are still young?
I was in a really long LTA (4 years online EA/Cyber followed by 3.5 years EA/PA). I thought I loved my AP but that did not mean I wanted to give up my BS. The truth is, I wanted to have them both in my life. BS forced me to make a choice. I decided to give it 6 months trying to see if the marriage could be salvaged. Little did I know at that time that it was me and my integrity that needed salvaging. I did eventually figure out, at about month 5, that it wasn't a choice between BS and AP. It was a choice between mental health and not mental health. Not everyone gets to that point, I don't think.

Waywards have pretty screwed up thought processes and a lot of times mistake the intensity of feelings as a basis for their validity. I know I definitely did.

Your WS also might not have wanted to be seen as a bad person by being the one to pull the divorce trigger. I know for me I cared a lot about what I thought other people thought about me.

Finally, waywards tend to rely on other people for giving them the good feelings. Facing a long time of dealing with difficult feelings in trying to reconcile can be daunting for someone who thinks that way. Integrity is doing what is fun, fast or easy instead of what is right. It is living values instead of just professing them. Staying and working through reconciliation requires integrity, or at the very least working to build it. The AP, on the other hand, doesn't care at all about integrity. If they did, they would not have helped the person be a cheater in the first place.

Unless your WS does the work to figure out how and why he was able to betray you, you may never know what broken thought processes gave him the green light to treat you this way but I hope the above at least gives you some insight into how at least some Waywards think. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Best to you from this EvolvingSoul.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 11/28/2018 05:39 AM

likeapinball, you have a pm.

destroyedwayward posted 11/28/2018 09:32 AM

@tapered - I've written this before that cheating comes from a place of dishonesty and betrayal. Nothing genuine, true, good, or lasting can come from that.

Hopscotch posted 11/29/2018 19:28 PM

I was hoping some WSs could help me understand this.

Before my WH cheated I felt like the luckiest girl in the world. I told him all the time how wonderful I thought he was. I praised him to other people and he knew it. I admired him. I thought he was one of the smartest, kindest, hardest-working people I knew. (And he is bipolar so I knew he wasn't perfect, but I felt like he was perfect for me. Ugh)

Now, I don't feel that way anymore. I love him, but I don't brag about him. I don't post about how great he is on social media. I try to tell him how much I see the work he is doing and how much it means to me, but it just isn't the same. He isn't the man I thought he was. (THough I do think he is working towards being more that man now.)

Anyway, why would a WS want to be with a BS that admittedly doesn't feel the same about them? Don't you feel like you are missing out? Don't you want to be with someone who loves you/admires you in the naive way only someone who hasn't been destroyed can? Why trade the fantasy with the AP of a perfect love for a BS who has lost any belief in the happily-ever-after soul-mate garbage?

Lucky77 posted 12/2/2018 15:14 PM

Hi Hopscotch.
I feel your pain

Let me use an analogy. Your WH was used to dining at the same 5 star restaurant every day. He was pampered. He was provided the best food and drink. Every day. Day after day. He was king.

Suddenly a 3 star restaurant down the block caught his eye. He felt disloyal going there. Some guilt. But the burgers and wings were pretty good. So he went back a few more times. He was SO naughty. He ate deep fried everything with gravy on it even though he knew it was deadly.

He knew the 5 star was better. Itís where he belonged. But the naughty thrill of burgers and wings kept him engaged. Cake eating as we call it here. Maybe itís wing eating too. He is lucky he has a 5 star like you.

[This message edited by Lucky77 at 3:50 PM, December 2nd (Sunday)]

inthedark99 posted 12/3/2018 06:20 AM

I have a few questions for WSís this morning.

1. If you travel for your job, how do you make that safe or less triggery for your BS?

2. If you havenít been in IC at all, how is that working for you, how long has it been since your last DD and what are you doing to work towards your whyís without help from an IC.

3. Any suggestions or clarity you can share on getting to your
why? Am not sure my WS can differentiate that the how (difficult time in life, marriage, drinking etc) and the why are two different things.

Thanks in advance for your responses. I have really appreciated reading this thread and am so impressed with the willingness of all of you to be so open and vulnerable.

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