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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Dragonfly123 posted 1/13/2019 03:42 AM

Please bear with me with this, I hope it makes sense.

I was thinking this morning about some questions I had for my husband (weíre seperated) and I was overwhelmed with this understanding of how my questions might be seen as angry, hurtful, dredging up pain etc. I suddenly understood how difficult it would be for him to answer them.

I then started to think about how my pain and anguish and anger/rage and endless questions must make him feel like reconciliation would be insurmountable.

Donít get me wrong, weíre seperated AND he is in no way remorseful but heís a good man who did a terrible thing and I am in a strange situation where I have reasonably good contact with him coparenting. As an aside Iím worried about his mental health but I have been for the past year and a half.

I guess I would have, before this moment thought that cheaters who didnít try to reconcile were cowards or didnít love their spouse enough but I can now see that maybe poor coping mechanisms would mean that individuals wouldnít have the skills to heal a betrayed spouse, even if deep down they loved them.

Did you ever think healing your spouse was insurmountable? Did it ever feel like something you couldnít do? How did you find the strength? Are there any of you who couldnít heal their spouse but still loved them dearly?

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 3:45 AM, January 13th (Sunday)]

destroyedwayward posted 1/14/2019 15:58 PM

@dragonfly - a (recent) turning point, just before the 6 months post-dday mark, for me was truly understanding that my BH's recovery, ultimately, is his decision and his timeline. However, the environment or factors upon which he'll come to a decision are up to me. Surprisingly, the factors that were creating a safe environment for him are the same that are guiding my recovery. Things like keeping boundaries, practicing self-awareness/mindfulness, adopting better coping mechanism, I was feeling healthier, in almost every sense, mentally, emotionally, physically (though I will admit, it has been at times exhausting). All of this also helped with my thinking truths and therefore, acting in truth. I think maybe, gradually, my BH saw this and believed in my genuineness. A large truth, for me, was really getting the devastation I caused. As for the strength, in my case, as I recovered and became healthier, I felt more capable and to be frank, more determined to ensure the optimal environment for his recovery. After all, I had done this to him, to us. It is my responsibility, to the best of my ability, to help restore him.

One of the most meaningful things I've learned here and continue to learn is that love is not a feeling, it is actions. It is not passive, it must be in motion, kept in motion. I think it applies for both the WS and the BS, but of course, we, waywards, must lead the charge for as long as it takes, if love is our truth.

iAmHulk posted 1/18/2019 10:22 AM

Hi There,

First time poster, so please bear with me.

Some brief background about me - married 9, together 15, known 20, 2 kids under age 10.
August 2018, my WS met by chance her OP with his wife at a coffee shop. At the time my WS was on her way to meet a peer to ask questions about starting her own business. OP has his own business so hey exchanged numbers. OP is a Psychologist and has in-home case visits, WS is a Behavior Therapist who also does in-home cases. October 2018, they begin to meet up for lunch a few times a week and decide to work together on a few cases. Early November 2018, after we had sex on a Friday (we didn't have a dead bedroom), she asks if she can kiss the guy. I replied that everyone has to make choices, you kiss the guy, you know what the consequences are. She goes on to kiss the guy.

She tells me and in heat of the moment, I ask for her to go No Contact with the OP and work on us. She agrees. A day later, she makes an excuse to try and see him. She meets him again and kisses him and asks for a divorce. I beg for her to work it out for our family. She agrees on the condition that she doesn't meet him for a month but we "date" for a month as friends, not as husband and wife. I agree and after a week, as I come out of the shock, I ask her if this was done for pity and if she's already made her decision. We agree to get a divorce.

Currently, we are co-habitating, sleeping in different rooms. About 2 days after we agree to a divorce, she meets OP and goes to a neighborhood park where our kids usually play and is right across our neighborhood street and has unprotected sex with OP in his car. Behavior continues - out of the house right after kids sleep, home at 2-3AM the next morning. She has continued to lie about no involvement with OP but I have found out that texting and emailing about their relationship continues. As of right now, we are in the middle of filling out our divorce paperwork.

Through these past 2.5 months, she has refused reconciliation, MC or IC. She blames me for 1)restricting time to spend with her family, 2) being too strict with the kids and 3)not connecting with her. She has told me that she has asked a few times to spend more time with family, loosen up rules with the kids and spend more time with her but it was never a serious sitdown talk. It was usually a conversation while we were watching TV or while we were doing chores. She claims she stopped loving me or it was on the decline after our 2nd kid. In 2018, I voluntarily started to change my stance on all of that and she admitted that she was surprised at a few things but she still didn't want to try and work on us. There were other things she threw at me like "I want to experience new things," "it's exciting to go out there on my own now," "i don't know what I want," "I love you but I don't love you," "the kids don't need you," "I'll take the consequences for all my actions" etc.

Sorry for the long background but here are my questions:

1. During and after the A, did you continue to blame your BS for the "negative" things in the M? At what point did you realize you were focusing too much on that or exaggerating (if you were) and bring back in the positives?

2. Even after the A was revealed or admitted, did you/why did you continue to lie about OP?

3. I've read about limerence and it's hard for me to say that my WS is in it, but did you "rewrite" the history and memories in your relationship to justify leaving your BS for freedom/OP?

4. When proposed with R, if/why did you reject it?

5. Did you try to find anything/everything negative about the marriage to "move on" or move away?

6. What was your moment when you realized, "what have I done" or "I maaay have made a mistake". What was the trigger for that?

inthedark99 posted 1/18/2019 12:00 PM

Do any WSís have any experience with having to see (or potentially have contact with) the AP at a work event or traveling for work? How did you manage that? How did your BS handle that?

How does your BS approach you about discussing the A? Those that are further out than 4 months, has it gotten easier for your BS to bring questions or discussions up? Do you ever take the lead on that? Still in the awkward stage of that here and would welcome any suggestions.

Talk to me about trickle truth. Have you WSís told your BS everything, or have you held back some details. And if so, why? If you had more than one discovery day, how did you help your BS get through that?

Once again, thank you for your responses. I hope that coming on to this thread is as helpful to you all as it has been for many of us BSís.

Edited to add because I forgot a question:

How long after DD did you pine for your AP? What was it that you missed from them? What was the thing that captured you to begin with and how do you feel about that and your AP now?


[This message edited by inthedark99 at 12:21 PM, January 18th (Friday)]

Sayuwontletgo posted 1/18/2019 14:48 PM

Hulk- Iím sorry for the situation you are in right now, no one deserves this type of pain. Iíll try to answer your questions with some of my experiences.

1- I blamed H for just about everything during the A. Itís much easier to play the victim than to realize that even if you are in a bad marriage itís still partially your fault. My BS found out years after the A had ended and in that time frame I could start to see what reality was instead of just my warped view on it. I started to see the ways he was trying to love me, and how I was being cruel. Maybe a good IC for her can help her but she has to want to be helped.

2- I didnít TT, I had held on to all of it for so long that I told him everything. I would assume that the urge to lie is a defense mechanism, I think most waywards can recognize that we can be selfish. Lying is selfish.

3- kind of the same answer as 1. I rewrote things in my mind from one perspective. Real healing and understanding happens when both sides are exposed. I had answered all these questions in my head for my BS. Things like if he does x then surely he doesnít love me. If he doesnít love me it makes it easier to justify the A. Some messed up logic but none of the A was logical.

4- I canít relate, Iím thankful for the opportunity to try to R.

5- focusing on the negative helped justify things. Shitty thought processes meets shitty boundaries and suddenly BS can do nothing right and AP was the only one who could ďseeĒ me

6- this was such a hard question to try to answer. I want to say that it was immediate but thatís me looking back and wanting to beat the holy crap out of who I was. I regret every single moment of the A now but when I was in it it took probably about 2-3 months to say WTF am I doing? My H snapped me out of it. I saw his kindness and his character. The person I had made him out to be and the man that I was spending time with were so completely different that I couldnít even fool myself anymore. I started to think that at 2-3 months and continued the A anyway. I went long bouts not speaking to AP or seeing him but never really went NC for few more years. The high of the ego boost was too strong and I didnít care who I hurt to get it. The last physical encounter I had with AP I actually faked it because I felt like throwing up. The disgust and guilt was finally enough to counter the high.

iAmHulk posted 1/18/2019 16:36 PM

Thanks for your response sayuwontletgo.

A few more questions:

1. Did you have kids and how did the kids, if at all, play into your actions or decision to have A

2. What did your apology or remorse to your BS look like?

3. How did you BH snap you out of it? Wasn't it hard or near impossible because you were in the fog?

4. Did your family know about your A? How did they handle it?

5. Was D ever in consideration or was it in process then R occurred?

Sayuwontletgo posted 1/18/2019 17:12 PM

Inthe dark- I hope another wayward comes by to address your questions better than I can but I can atleast identify with a few. I worked with AP but left the job.

Talking about the A should be on your terms. If you want your WS to bring it up more let them know but you should feel free to discuss it how/when ever you feel the need. The only thing I would suggest is try not to marathon. If they get that glossed over look it might help to take a quick break but come back to it. That way you feel heard and both of you are ready to really listen. I donít know if it gets easier for BS. Weíve covered most of the nitty gritty details so thereís no new shockers. Just new pain and old pain mixed into the rollercoaster. Some days are better than others.
I didnít TT, and no pinning after AP. He was an asshole, I always knew he was an asshole. I just wanted to stop being an asshole with him. I wanted the attention from him, not actually him if that makes sense? So if there was anything I missed it was the feeling of being wanted/desired.

Sayuwontletgo posted 1/18/2019 18:13 PM

Hulk- we have 3 kids now. We had 1 at the beginning of the A. I would say that my low self esteem started soon after my first baby. I put on a significant amount of weight and we were not in a good place when it came to sex. These were all not great things but itís important to remember that even if the marriage was complete trash the A was never because of what my H did or didnít do. I knew I could get along fine atleast financially if H found out(I was still working then) and she (our darling daughter)was too young to know anything was going on. I didnít think about how it would affect her, so many things get compartmentalized.

2- Iím not sure what BS would say it looks like. Iím not great at apologies. I can say Iím sorry every day for the A and itís probably the one thing Iím the best at apologizing for but I think itís the day to day that shows the remorse. I want to show him the changes are real and that I want to do the work to keep us together. I think itís different for every couple?

3- He snapped me out of it but not enough to stop sooner. Seeing the differences in the stories I had told myself and how he really acts I started to question why I had made him this villain when heís not. I was still in the fog because all AP had to do was persue me again and I faltered. I never wanted to leave my H, AP knew it. Itís much harder to tell yourself that someone doesnít love you or care if you go when you start seeing that they do. My H continued to try to make our lives better , the guilt and shame followed.

4- I told my mom that I had kissed someone, she seemed more impressed than concearned. She had an affair as well and getting into all the foo issues is a whole other post. Lol. Sheís more of the blame it on everyone but yourself type. She had also tried to convince me that H was cheating on me. Itís complicated.

5- H has never asked for a D but I know he could decide tomorrow to change his mind. I know itís always on the table. I just have to try to do my best to show him I want to make the changes needed to be the wife he needs

*edited to fix typos*

[This message edited by Sayuwontletgo at 9:36 PM, January 18th (Friday)]

Followtheriver posted 1/19/2019 02:29 AM

Dragonfly123,

Did you ever think healing your spouse was insurmountable? Did it ever feel like something you couldnít do?

I am ashamed to admit that I did. There were days that I wanted to give up and admit defeat. I sometimes felt that I was in an uphill battle that my BH did not want me to win and if I was able to advance at all, well, he just was not going to allow that to happen.

How did you find the strength?

I can be stubborn and saw it as a challenge to prove to my BH that I can and will do what it takes to fight for him and our M. I have always been the type of person who when life knocks me down, I get up, brush myself off and tell life she hits like a girl.

I would like to add, that no matter how much I would have loved to and would have been more than willing to completely heal my BH, it was not possible. I could only help and support him as he worked on his own healing.

Tallgirl posted 1/19/2019 15:09 PM

WSís, These questions are more oriented to LTAs. Thank you for responding if you can, I am struggling with understanding this. I hope they make sense, they are emotional questions for me.

1. For those of you who had longer Aís, did you tell your BSís and truly believe that you loved them after the A ended? Or did it take time to realize how you felt? Iíve been lied to for well over 5 yrs, and I wonder if my WH is lying to himself when he tells me he loves me after being in love with his AP for so long.

2. Do you feel the way to becoming a better person is to stay in your M and with your BS?

3. Did any of you have a cycle of breaking up with your AP and going back into the A more attached? If so, why did you keep returning?

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 3:11 PM, January 19th (Saturday)]

Lucky77 posted 1/19/2019 16:02 PM

Hi Tallgirl,

I had a 3 year A.
There were some lapses in there in time.
But after a lapse I would go back.
I enjoyed all the ego kibbles. I didn't know what limerance was at the time but ya, that's a thing. I felt I loved my W the whole time. I never told AP I loved her but I sure as heck wondered what it was I was feeling. I craved the feeling she gave me. I thought about her constantly. I still do even though I'm NC for over a year. I was convinced that I could give polyamory a try. I thought there was no harm in keeping a secret GF on the side. She and I were each other's "side piece" which be both thought was great.

Eventually I started to see through the A as just BS. It ended on its own. But I sure had and still have powerful cravings for her. It's so hard to explain. My W is prettier, more capable and much kinder. I guess I was drawn to her crazy.

Tallgirl posted 1/20/2019 12:36 PM

Thank you for sharing your experience Lucky. Your help is appreciated. Understanding is difficult for me.

iamharleyquinn posted 1/20/2019 14:32 PM

for those who have cheated....

1) were you in love with your AP or did you tell them that only because you wanted sex from them?

2) if you did love your AP how is it possible to love 2 people at the same time?

according to most WS on this board they say that most of the time they just wanted sex and they did not have any feelings of love towards the AP. would you say this is accurate?

iAmHulk posted 1/20/2019 16:34 PM

Thanks again Sayuwontletgo for answer my questions.

Some other questions that I hope you and/or others can answer:

1. Did it matter if the OP or AP was in another relationship, particularly marriage with/without kids?

2. What drove you to the A? There's a saying that WS have A because something is missing or lacking in their relationship or M. I've read about the "walk away wife syndrome". Was this what you were encountering at the time?

3. Having been a WS, do you view BS and WS differently now? As a recent BS, I cannot imagine being in a relationship with a person who has ever been in an A, maybe because I now have trust issues.

4. My STBXW said that it was 50% her fault and 50% OP's fault for causing the divorces of 2 families. Do you view the same that A are 50/50? (I see it is 100/100 and feel that my STBXW is aware of what she did but is still deflecting blame because of reasons posted above).

[This message edited by iAmHulk at 11:20 AM, January 21st (Monday)]

Pippin posted 1/21/2019 10:04 AM

Iamharleyquinn, I had an EA for about 6 months. I am deeply ashamed of these answers now that I'm further out, but here is what I would have said at the time, and what I think now.

1) were you in love with your AP or did you tell them that only because you wanted sex from them?

I was definitely in a "limerance" state (it's well described on some internet pages). It felt like the early obsessive stages of a serious crush. I read that limerance is biology's way of getting you into bed with someone to reproduce before realizing what their faults are. There are hormonal/chemical elements. That was all true for me - I felt like a drug addict chasing a high. I wanted all the things you might want when you are first falling in love with someone, including sex, but also spending time, flirting, any contact. And I wanted to be my best for him, physically attractive, successful at work, etc.

2) if you did love your AP how is it possible to love 2 people at the same time?

At the time, I would have said that I loved my husband and was in love with my AP, although I wasn't using those words with him and wouldn't have said it out loud. I compartmentalized. I was in some ways a more attentive wife when I was with my husband during the EA, at least behavior-wise. There was a serious amount of internal stress though - I started grinding my teeth at night which I had never done before, and there were other physical symptoms. I made the most inane, lame and downright evil excuses and rationalizations to make it all seem OK.

I have a better understanding of what love is now, and I see my behavior for the self-destructive and marriage-destructive disaster that it was. Now, I think that love means you want the best for the other person and will do what you can to help and support them, their feelings are so important to you they are like your feelings. I obviously didn't love AP or BH (or myself). But what I wrote above is what my disaster-of-a-self would have said at the time.

hikingout posted 1/21/2019 14:19 PM

Hi Hulk -

I am sorry to read your story.

1. During and after the A, did you continue to blame your BS for the "negative" things in the M?


YES. I think re-writing the marital history is common during an A. We are experiencing cognitive dissonance and telling ourselves a lot of justification so that we can feel better about what we are doing.

At what point did you realize you were focusing too much on that or exaggerating (if you were) and bring back in the positives?


For me, the A was over 2 months before I confessed. I went straight to counseling to work through my next steps. I began seeing patterns with what I was saying to IC, I was reading here which gave me a lot of clues of things to look at, and I read a lot about affairs in general. I was able to take responsibility for projecting my expectations as my H's expectations.

2. Even after the A was revealed or admitted, did you/why did you continue to lie about OP?

I didn't do that. I confessed and had read enough that I knew I needed to just rip off the band-aid. But, I will say that had I not read enough prior to being caught or confessing, I can understand that a lot of times it's just trying to control the situation - control how you are being seen. It backfires badly. So badly, but that's why - self preservation.

3. I've read about limerence and it's hard for me to say that my WS is in it, but did you "rewrite" the history and memories in your relationship to
justify leaving your BS for freedom/OP?

Yes. For me, as it often seems to be - it was an escape from reality. I wasn't coping well with my life at all, and was miserable. That really had nothing to do with my husband, it was my own coping mechanisms and thinking I couldn't cause change. I am not good at conflict either so it seemed easier to me to follow the fantasy world where everything was unicorns and rainbows and not watch my life falling apart. The more I escaped, the more fell apart, the more that fell apart the more I dug into the escape. It was terrible. AP had a DDAY, dumped me immediately, and that woke me up.

4. When proposed with R, if/why did you reject it?

I didn't know what I wanted or what to think about everything when I started counseling. After two months, I confessed because I had learned enough that I understood better the psychology of what happens in affairs and I wanted to save my marriage. My husband has never proposed R, he doesn't even call it that (he's not on this site) but I am so thankful he wanted to work it out.

5. Did you try to find anything/everything negative about the marriage to "move on" or move away?

YES. During the A and in the aftermath I did do this. I realize now that I was only trying to move on from myself. Had I gone anywhere I would have just taken the same issues with me.

6. What was your moment when you realized, "what have I done" or "I maaay have made a mistake". What was the trigger for that?


AP dumped me. I know it should have been something better or more nobel. I started thinking about what I thought love was, and saw who actually had always loved me and I took him for granted. I could still have gotten a divorce, but I realized that I would be foolish to leave the best thing that ever happened to me, the man who took care of me and the kids, and my best friend and partner for decades. Instead, I decided to get my shit together, and I still work on that on a daily basis.

hikingout posted 1/21/2019 15:46 PM


for those who have cheated....
1) were you in love with your AP or did you tell them that only because you wanted sex from them?

I thought I was in love with him. I now understand I was in love with how the A made me feel.


2) if you did love your AP how is it possible to love 2 people at the same time?

I don't think I loved anyone during this time. I was too selfish. When you love someone you care about them and want to make them happy. When you are attached to someone you want them to make you happy. I was squarely in the latter category with everyone.

according to most WS on this board they say that most of the time they just wanted sex and they did not have any feelings of love towards the AP. would you say this is accurate?


Both are looking for validation usually of some sort. Being seen as desirable or special. Generally speaking, I think a higher percentage of males are looking for more sex than females. But we have females that come here and it was just about sex. We have males that come here pining for the AP. But, overall I think the majority is the woman is trying to live out a romantic fantasy and the men are often trying to fulfill sexual fantasy.

inthedark99 posted 1/22/2019 07:33 AM

I think my post may from last week may have gotten buried. Will try again, thanks all.

Do any WSís have any experience with having to see (or potentially have contact with) the AP at a work event or traveling for work? How did you manage that? How did your BS handle that?

How does your BS approach you about discussing the A? Those that are further out than 4 months, has it gotten easier for your BS to bring questions or discussions up? Do you ever take the lead on that? Still in the awkward stage of that here and would welcome any suggestions.

Talk to me about trickle truth. Have you WSís told your BS everything, or have you held back some details. And if so, why? If you had more than one discovery day, how did you help your BS get through that?

Once again, thank you for your responses. I hope that coming on to this thread is as helpful to you all as it has been for many of us BSís.

Edited to add because I forgot a question:

How long after DD did you pine for your AP? What was it that you missed from them? What was the thing that captured you to begin with and how do you feel about that and your AP now?

hikingout posted 1/22/2019 08:13 AM

Do any WSís have any experience with having to see (or potentially have contact with) the AP at a work event or traveling for work?

I didn't have any danger of seeing him, but he was in a sister company that I had a project with that had to finish up for a few months before I didn't have to deal with him anymore. No trips, no face to face, and no phone calls. Everything was done through email and blind copied to my husband.

How did you manage that? How did your BS handle that?

My experience with that was probably uncommon, it had a definite end in site, most any of the communication also involved other people. H handled it okay. His attitude was that if I decided to break NC we would divorce, and he felt that he didn't have any control over what my actions were. So, we didn't really fight about it, I just kept the transparency as the goal.


How does your BS approach you about discussing the A? Those that are further out than 4 months, has it gotten easier for your BS to bring questions or discussions up? Do you ever take the lead on that? Still in the awkward stage of that here and would welcome any suggestions.

We are 17 months out. It did get easier. I think some of the awkwardness in the beginning was mostly because of me. Not knowing the answers sometimes and not knowing how what I was going to say was going to effect him, and I was really trying to control the outcome at that point which put a different spin on our interactions. I think once some of the shock wore off for him and I began taking more and more responsibility the conversations just got easier. I learned to initiate the conversation more, but in the beginning I was hesitant and afraid to do so. It took a while before I realized that's what he needed, and that I wasn't reminding him of things...that it never left his head.


Talk to me about trickle truth. Have you WSís told your BS everything, or have you held back some details. And if so, why? If you had more than one discovery day, how did you help your BS get through that?

No, no real experience there. He didn't want a lot of sexual details the first year, so there was more revealed when he wanted answers and that was a set back a little at the time, but I didn't lie. I will say that my answers are different today because I have the benefit of hindsight and changed perspective, but no the details and concrete of what happened never changed.


Once again, thank you for your responses. I hope that coming on to this thread is as helpful to you all as it has been for many of us BSís.
Edited to add because I forgot a question:

How long after DD did you pine for your AP? What was it that you missed from them? What was the thing that captured you to begin with and how do you feel about that and your AP now?


Well, affair was over 2 months before dday. So, I would say something like 8 months all together. (About 5 or 6 after dday). I learned that the feelings I was seeking and having really had nothing to do with the AP. That I had a void in my own life I was trying to fill up and/or escape from. The thing that captured my attention from AP was that he was fun and flirty. Now I just think he was as pathetic as me trying to fill his needs in an unhealthy way. I feel indifferent to him. The A really had little to do with him or my husband, it was really about me and my character deficits.

Followtheriver posted 1/28/2019 01:35 AM

iAmHulk,

1. Did it matter if the OP or AP was in another relationship, particularly marriage with/without kids?

It mattered to me and that was why the OM was single.

2. What drove you to the A? There's a saying that WS have A because something is missing or lacking in their relationship or M. I've read about the "walk away wife syndrome". Was this what you were encountering at the time?

The only thing that drove me to have an A, was my own brokenness inside of myself. There was plenty missing or lacking in my M, hell, it was completely toxic but I had other choices. I could have filed for D, I could have told my BH to get help for his anger issues or get out, I could have scheduled MC to help us. I had other options but I chose to have an A instead.


3. Having been a WS, do you view BS and WS differently now? As a recent BS, I cannot imagine being in a relationship with a person who has ever been in an A, maybe because I now have trust issues.

I am not sure exactly what you are asking, so if my answer isn't what you are looking for, let me know.

I view my BH as the strongest man I know. I have sent him to hell and back by having an A, d-day, making mistakes with my work to repair the damage, helping me work through my FOO and all the other shit I threw at him. He has carried the weight of the world on his shoulders and stood tall.

I viewed myself as pathetic and weak. I was a coward, who was filled with so much fear and anger, that I couldn't see how broken I was, let alone what to do about it.

I am not going to even take a guess at what your WW was or is thinking or why she is doing what she is doing because quite frankly, her actions and behaviors leave me speechless.

But I do know 2 things beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is absolutely nothing you did or didn't do that caused your WW to cheat. Maybe the M wasn't what she wanted, needed or expected but your WW had other options and instead she chose to have an A.


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