SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

… That I’ve felt bad enough about what I did, for long enough?

I’ve been reading here and on other infidelity support forums for several months now, and while there is lots of helpful information, the occasions where a BS makes a negative comment or assumption about all WS in general seem to really make me bristle. I find myself having imaginary arguments with the posters in my head for much of the day. I was trying to figure out why that was happening, as it’s very disruptive. I think it might be because I have a deep need to feel like I’m a good person worthy of love and marriage, and there’s some insidious voice inside of me that keeps saying that isn’t true. It latches onto those negative comments online, amplifies them, and plays them on repeat, and I’m scrambling to defend myself and the last, struggling bit of self-worth I have from it.

I don’t want to forget my infidelity, because I think it’s important to keep myself vigilant for any warning signs that I’m at risk of doing it again… But I don’t think this amount of guilt and shame and thinking about it that I’m doing now is of much benefit, if any, to me or my husband. It feels like not my place to decide when I’ve felt badly enough, for long enough, but maybe I can? I have a plan in place to keep my marriage safe while I work on myself. I’ve introspected a ton and identified key issues to resolve. Maybe I can just focus on that instead of my infidelity, and save thinking about it for when BH is triggered or seeking comfort/answers?

Am I treading the line between self-forgiveness and… I don’t know, letting myself off the hook? (Does that make sense to anyone, or just to me?)

IMO, R requires the WS to change from betrayer to good partner. Feeling bad hinders making that change. It takes energy away from doing the work a WS needs to do. Check into Karpman's Drama Triangle.

I agree with Sisoon. And it’s also true that the anguish that betrayer partners express is completely, truly, and utterly real. If anything, just assume that what they say is conservative to the pain they feel because they can’t find the words. Don’t entertain arguing with them.

ETA: after your comment about how you deceived others on Discord into their trust and turned on them, maybe just forget I posted on your thread.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 5:57 AM, Saturday, October 18th]

While I agree with the general sentiment here, I want to emphasize a few points.

​It's impossible to offer specific advice without knowing the context—your story, what you did, and why. However, your current feeling of self-hatred is the most immediate consequence of your actions.
​For change to happen, a person needs to face accountability. When a partner chooses to stay after infidelity, the traditional external consequence (a breakup) is avoided. This makes the self-hatred you feel incredibly important; it's the internal mechanism that holds you accountable and fuels your drive to change into a trustworthy partner.

​I don't believe that "anyone could cheat." Infidelity usually signals a deeper issue that needs to be addressed. Your goal now is to channel the intensity of your self-hatred into constructive action—therapy, sincere communication, and consistent behavior—to prove to yourself, as much as to your husband, that you are capable of fundamental change.

the occasions where a BS makes a negative comment or assumption about all WS in general seem to really make me bristle. I find myself having imaginary arguments with the posters in my head for much of the day. I was trying to figure out why that was happening, as it’s very disruptive.

Perhaps I am wrong, but this opinion seems to stem from a failure to fully grasp the severity and uniquely damaging nature of infidelity. To many, it represents the most devastating legal offense one can commit—an act of betrayal that wounds a loved one to the deepest possible extent, functioning as a form of prolonged psychological abuse.

​I do not fully understand your logical premise regarding the treatment of cheaters. What is the appropriate response a betrayed spouse or society, for that matter, should have toward those who commit betrayal? Do you not believe that negative commentary or moral condemnation is justified when addressing such a profound violation of trust?

​The final point is that this stance of non-judgment could easily be extended to any person who has committed an immoral act. Should we, as a society, refrain from being critical of con artists or thieves? And would it truly be reckless to make certain assumptions about the character of individuals who willfully cause such harm?

I think it might be because I have a deep need to feel like I’m a good person worthy of love and marriage

Don't we all. My recommendation would be to begin working on acting in a way that's worthy of these things. I don't feel cheating is an example of such worth

I hope you find happiness

I’m going to have to chew on Karpman’s drama triangle for a while, and really figure out how to move out of it, but I think that will be a really applicable and helpful concept here. Thank you, Sisoon.

I understand BS are people who are very deeply hurt, and that’s where these sweeping generalizations are coming from… Engaging with "Well, not all of us!" defensively hasn’t been useful, so I am just trying to remind myself that I know what I’m like and what my situation is. It doesn’t matter (or at least it shouldn’t matter) what anyone else thinks of me, really, and I have more important things to focus on IRL…

I think the other thing that is hard to let go of is that these places paint themselves to be supportive of both the BS and the WS, with the goal of surviving, recovering from, and stopping infidelity and its root causes, and the negative generalizations seem to be in direct contrast with that goal. There are ways of speaking badly of infidelity without speaking broadly and badly of WS themselves, such that they get pushed away or so laden with self-loathing and shame that they can’t be functional. I don’t think we need coddle or excuse people who commit infidelity, by any means, but a more accurate and complete understanding of them would be more effective towards the general goals of these spaces.

I’ve experienced an awful lot of moments in my life where I’ve been anxiously raising my hand and saying, "But wait, if we did it like this, it could be so much better…" whether that was with my FOO, at home, at work, or in other situations, only to be ignored and forced to continue on doing things the less efficient/effective way while participating in that environment. (I like to joke that the Capricorn in me can’t stand that!) But I think I just need to accept that sometimes that happens, and remind myself that everything will be okay regardless. I need to be able to congratulate myself on my insight and feel proud, instead of having that "I told you so, didn’t I? But nobody listens to me!" and being mired in anger and the need to be seen as insightful by others, when situations play out that way.

[This message edited by Ghostie at 3:07 PM, Saturday, October 18th]

On the workings of one staff member's mind....

Supporting a person (BS or WS) doesn't mean agreeing with what they say.

The US supreme court rulings on free speech do not cover private 'places' like Internet fora. At the same time, I prefer not to censor speech, and I believe no staff member wants to censor speech. I think that's why SI has guidelines. I post a lot as a human being and as a BS, but I respond as a member of the staff only when a post violates guidelines.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:59 PM, Saturday, October 18th]

I’m not saying that supporting someone requires agreeing with them. What I mean is that saying things like

"I would never do that. Only shitty people would do this thing"

is neither helpful nor supportive, when something like

"I presently cannot see myself making that decision personally, but I’m open to hearing about situations that might put me or other people more at risk of doing the shitty thing, so that we can reduce the likelihood that people do the shitty thing and hurt others."

Could be said instead. Like the "Waywards are bad people and you they should hate themselves" sentiment isn’t doing anyone any favors, especially when an absence of self-love and self-worth is so often a huge part of the reason why WS turn to infidelity in the first place.

It’s not "censorship" to consciously make that change in your own speech.

You can avoid condoning infidelity without taking a shit on the infidels themselves, especially when they’re in spaces like these trying to be better. It’s like if an AA group was having a meeting in the same high school gymnasium as a support group for the loved ones of alcoholics, but the latter was loudly insulting alcoholics themselves as a whole and it was echoing around the gym… And then half the alcoholics go home and have a stiff drink because they can’t stand to be sober and alone with themselves. Like what purpose does that serve??

Anyway. It’s not my job to be concerned about this. Whether these places impair the self-improvement of WS or not, I spoke up. The outcome is not my fault.

[This message edited by Ghostie at 4:37 PM, Saturday, October 18th]

...I have a deep need to feel like I’m a good person worthy of love and marriage, and there’s some insidious voice inside of me that keeps saying that isn’t true.

I don’t think this amount of... thinking about it that I’m doing now is of much benefit,

I think you'll find that untangling this knot will lead you to becoming a much happier, healthier and wiser person. So, thinking about it, really digging deep into yourself-- your spirit, soul, philosophy, consciousness, however you describe it--will be of tremendous benefit.

We all have our own issues. Sometimes, for all sorts of reasons, we come to accept untruths about ourselves. Unlearning untruths about ourselves is often extremely difficult.

I don't know if you're walking a fine line between forgiving yourself and letting yourself off the hook. I think this question stems from the same issues you described above.