SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just want to say - on this we agree, schoolers. The things that challenged me a lot was deciding what my value system was and why. And I think ws have an easier time with recovery when they find that core.

All I am saying is that takes some time. My concern here is the same concern I actually have for new bs who come to this site. We often have folks frustrated at their timelines. It takes time to get oriented by both people. I find it natural a bs who has just been blindsided needs time to work through a process. Ws also have a lot of evolving to do. I think it would be disingenuous to be caught cheating one day and making grandiose claims about how strong they are in their marriage and knowing exactly how they must change to save it the next.

And while I can appreciate that the time it takes for them to figure it out can be hellish for the bs, I fully support honesty and figuring it out. Because in the end if you only try and adapt to fit the relationship, that’s just a continuation of being a chameleon. I want the ws to get sure of themselves, and I want the bs to detach so they can protect their energy and find their strength. Only from that place can the marriage start anew.

And when we have a ws being vulnerable enough to explore topics honestly on this site we often find ways of condemning them just enough that they leave. When in all reality, being able to say your truth and then see what you want to change and evolve it is where this place has power. And I think that’s true in both the bs and we side.

One of the most important things to me after I found out about my husbands affair was for him to take time to truly decide what it was he wanted and who he wanted to be. Only then would we be able to build an authentic marriage. I am a big proponent of you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it, because I feel both sides need to deeply choose it before you can act in unison.

It’s a process. I recognize Ghostie’s process, and I don’t mind people talking to her about that flexibility, where I get protective is when people start shaming a person who is trying to figure out if she can leave behind some of that shame or not. Most ws start with this question but then continue to wrestle with the shame until they can excavate where it all started.

But letting go of it is exactly what the bs needs because space is available to be created for them. It’s so intense and overwhelming for some ws that they can’t function in the way that is conducive in their marriage.

Any IC will start with talking to a ws about what is holding them back or making them act out, and a lot of times Ghostie is right - it all starts from this lack of self worth that makes our boundaries sway. Our relationship with ourself dictates how we have relationships with others.

So you are right about what you are saying in terms of the correlation of discovering your values and how they have impacted your decisions. It’s just not something someone often decides overnight. Nor is it possible because these are deep complex things that are intertwined with all the years we have lived prior to this one.

For that, I think the philosophical discussions can be helpful - if we can do it without shaming. (I am not particularly pointing at you here, btw) Otherwise we are not helping Ghostie and by extension her husband either.

She doesn’t know where she is in the process, she is still trying to find her way, and I see she has at least found the markers of the start of it. Are there things she may still be in the fog about? Sure- I think it takes about six months on average for that to all subside and to gain clarity. (Unless we are talking about the emotionless type of cheating)

Okay- back to helping Ghostie. Are you here, have we chased you off?

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:12 PM, Tuesday, November 4th]

"My goal?" How did you arrogate this role?

How snippy.

That response is a disappointing misreading of my entire position. I've written thousands of words here with the explicit aim of helping Ghostie shift a poisonous worldview toward one of genuine accountability. My post was intended to read precisely as: "My goal (in posting this) is to get ghostie, the WS, to face true accountability."

Suppose more evidence that if you are determined enough you can intentionally misread anything you like.

So I can see that the discussion turned into something unhelpful. I apologize for my part in that and any unhelpful comments that I made. Ironically, I think I felt like I was being lectured on morality, etc. and was in turn defensive. I'll have to think more about that on my own behalf.

That response is a disappointing misreading of my entire position. I've written thousands of words here with the explicit aim of helping Ghostie shift a poisonous worldview toward one of genuine accountability. My post was intended to read precisely as: "My goal (in posting this) is to get ghostie, the WS, to face true accountability."

And you’ve put yourself in the judgment seat. How arrogant.

Although I have not read your hundreds of thousands of words oeuvre, I remember being super irritated about the level of excitement you conveyed when you thought a wayward was being served a kind of justice of which you approved. You can follow the rules and still put on a cloak of judgmental superiority which means the words are pointless at best and detrimental at worst.

[This message edited by Pippin at 5:34 PM, Tuesday, November 4th]

This forum isn't meant to be Chicken Soup For The Soul for Waywards. (I don't think this is really a place to open up about serious FOO as people here aren't therapists.) It is more about *accountability* for the affair.

No. This is not THE agenda of the wayward forum. This is (apparently) YOUR agenda. I’d be careful with that —the bible warns of original sin (my will be done not thy will be done) and the classicists against hubris. There may not be a contemporary term for asserting control without consent, but would think such a word would not be positive. I can think of many ways that I used SI that had nothing to do with accountability: finding a friend, finding a community of others who shared my experiences, looking for words to describe my experience when I didn’t have them, dark humor, reading positive reconciliation stories, reading the first hand experiences of betrayed spouses, learning about the breadth and width of different kinds of betrayals (my husband called this studying the dog), sending posts to my husband for his perspective, learning about resources that waywards used to help themselves. I could come up with 20 more reasons if I took some time. All of them centered on hope, compassion, practical steps. None on accountability. I'm sure some waywards might want that. But how dare you put yourself in the position of getting to decide what the point of the forum is and what it isn't?!

Wait. I'm confused now. Is this turn in the conversation meant to be more helpful?

I mean maybe it is. Ghostie came here looking for support, she started this thread because she was feeling vulnerable about some of the harsh judgment she is grappling with that is exacerbating her shame.

She might at least see there are people here who see her and do care enough to speak up for her. Maybe she can also identify people in this thread she can reach out to privately.

I personally think that we should have an automatic stop sign until they get to their 50 posts that they need to dm. Just a thought.

Ok. Fair enough. Your ideas may be a good policy change.

I don't think Ghostie (or anyone else) can personal message someone until they have a certain number of posts though, right?

Yes. Rarely do new ws stay here long enough for that though.

Rarely do new ws stay here long enough for that though.

Threads like this one are a big part of why this is true.

I doubt Ghostie will be back.

I do hope that the next time a new WS shows up we can all do much better to make them feel welcomed and supported.

Although I have not read your hundreds of thousands of words oeuvre, I remember being super irritated about the level of excitement you conveyed when you thought a wayward was being served a kind of justice of which you approved. You can follow the rules and still put on a cloak of judgmental superiority which means the words are pointless at best and detrimental at worst

What an interesting perspective. We could play the whole: let's judge each other one action game and see who comes out cleaner? Are you sure this is a game you'd want to play?

I'm ready to be judged.

I don't remember the comment in question but I have no doubts I've not been perfect in all my responses here. I too get triggered. I'm not excusing it. I genuinely try my best not to. I do try my best to help.

How interesting it is that all of my writings can be dismissed due to thus comment though. You after all interpreted it as me being excited at perceived justice. I must ask, Is this in line with the forgiveness that is preached in your church? Is this in line with forgiveness you begged from your husband?

I guess somethings are forgivable but a comment that appeared to you as a little over zealous is etched in stone forever. Great perspective for a forum like this. I'm apparently irredeemable.

I think I will step away from this discussion at this point. I hope Ghostie reads some of what I said. I hope it helps her to challenge her beliefs.