SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Summary: My husband of 6 years cheated on me 8 times during our relationship. I found out about one of them (very early us, a kiss with a girl he met at a party) 3 years into our marriage and the rest just a couple months ago. At that time I forgave him for the first incident (I thought it was the first) and we moved on. The most recent time was more than 1.5 years ago and it was a couple dates with someone he met at a festival while i was out of town followed by an intercourse in our bedroom. We have no kids but share a business and properties. We are in our mid to late twenties. I’m financially protected with proper legal structures in place. A few months ago I myself had an emotional affair with someone that is over. I’m still considering staying - am I crazy? Can someone like this change? Naive? Can a relationship survive this? Is it even love, especially after my own unfaithfulness? I see he is trying to be different, he is asking me to not give up, give him another chance, fight, etc. That all those were 8 isolated instances (kind of like 8 days from the past 6 years) that he regrets immensely and that the whole time he only loved me and asking me to think about all the good stuff our relationship had all those years. I just don't want to be in a situation where he is good for a few years and then it happens again. And I fear that I won't even find out if it happens again because he knows if I forgive him this time, there is no forgiveness next time. But can there be a forgiveness this time? I NEED ADVICE, please. 

More on Him:

He is a good guy in many other areas. We've had a great relationship overall, little fighting, shared vision, goals (we have a mutual business and work together), love, respect (if you don't consider cheating huh), intimacy, fun, etc. He is very caring, kind, loving, emotionally mature, smart, does everything for me without asking, generous, great communicator, great with kids, etc. He however does struggle with motivation and discipline at times, which is a big deal for me. He is working on it, on and off. He’s had 50+ sexual partners before me and he’s cheated in his previous relationship (kissed a girl, had girls grinding on him). This past year I’ve had an emotional affair myself for a few months (I am not proud of it). He found out, forgave me. My feelings have changed substantially after all of this, I don’t have the same love in my heart for him. Obviously no trust. Yet I am still considering staying because I think he can be different? Loyal? Hard working? He talks so convincingly. He has shown big change in the past month especially. He’s begging me to stay, he is very attentive right now (does things for me even more than before), he’s been working on the business extra hard, offering marriage counseling, writing things he will be doing differently, etc. It could all be a facade or maybe he is trying to be different? He says he’s been a "straight arrow" since the last incident and nothing has happened then. Yet, I’ve witnessed myself things I don’t consider straight arrow - glances, smiles, "friendly" interactions with girls when we are at the bars and in groups with friends etc. Maybe nothing serious happened but I have reasons to believe he still struggles with lust. 

Details:

When he told me about his unfaithfulness, he was very remorseful, cried, showed genuine regret, told me everything in great detail. He obviously hid the truth from me for many years. He said that he wants to have family and kids with me and he can’t hide this from me for that reason. I believe partially he told me about that because I myself had an emotional affair with someone (so his truth came out a couple months after he found out about me). I am not proud of my stuff although it’s adding to the mess of this situation even more. 

Back to my husband:

1. First time was very early us, before marriage (a few weeks into us talking, getting close, I thought we were exclusive), he kept seeing someone he already knew for a week or two, had sex with them, broke things off quickly after. I could overlook that one given how early us that was.

2. Still early us (a couple months in), he kissed someone at a house party. He came to me that night, drunk and high. That was the night he met my mom for the first time. I actually found out about this incident 3 years ago and I confronted him and I forgave him then. Hurts a little more given how I thought we felt about each other.

3. We were already legally married but were going to have a second wedding. He had a bachelor party out of town and got a handjob by 2 women that were paid to be there to hang out with him and his friends, so about 2 months before we were having our big wedding. He says he was pressured hardly and eventually gave in. Regretted it. Big deal in my eyes.

4. He was out of country for a month and during that time he kissed and danced (grinding etc) with 3 girls (maybe same, maybe different nights, i don't remember). Then he had a day-time date in the city with one more girl and kissed her at the end of the night. Big deal in my eyes.

5. Last but not least… when I was out of town, he met this girl at a festival. They hung out that night, got drunk, kissed for a while. Exchanged numbers.They met up for a bar date a few days after. Talked, probably kissed etc. They then had another date and that night he brought her back to our place and had sex with her that night and the next morning. She found out he was married (wasn’t okay with her) and left that morning, never saw her again (according to him). He said he wept that morning, regretting it intensely. Big deal in my eyes, hurts the most.

6. Not cheating but during our time together we’ve had a threesome with 2 girls. That left a mark on me. I didn’t enjoy it and it wasn’t something I necessarily wanted, but was open to it. 

Since the last incident he claims that nothing happened and he’s been different. I have reasons to believe he still struggles with lust and desires for other women, although he might be better. But is better really enough after all? I know he loves me and wants to be with me but he’s always struggled with sexual desires. All these encounters are more or less one night stand situations, and not as emotionally involved. He claims they were all transactional. They all happened when we were apart (out of town etc) since otherwise we do everything together - work, fun, etc.

I am obviously attached and part of me is trying to justify things. Oh, but we’ve been together for so long. I pressured him with work too much and he was depressed, trapped. But he is so good in so many other areas. We share a business. He is working harder and maybe he will take it to the next level in business after all? Maybe he will be different this time knowing that this time is the last time I am gonna forgive something like this? Please tell me, am I naive? Am I crazy? Am I thinking about the wrong things? I’m still young, I know I have a lot to offer, physically and emotionally. And I know there are faithful men out there who have good qualities just like he does and probably even more. Is this marriage worth fighting for? I know he is fighting for it. I’ve done my fair share in it, I just don’t know if it’s worth fighting for. If I can ever regain trust and the same love.

[This message edited by lizmr at 8:03 PM, Tuesday, June 10th]

You have said

Maybe he will be different this time knowing that this time is the last time I am gonna forgive something like this?

You have forgiven him every time, Why would he think next time would be any different?

He is not only having sex with other women he is dating them! Through your whole relationship he has show you who he is and what he wants. Please believe him before you have kids.

Yes.

I don't want to generalize too much, but I think most people and men especially, desire and are attracted to many people of their gender of preference. Yet, most people don't cheat. He has cheated many times which is not a great indicator. I say cut your losses before you have kids.

Thank you for your responses. Technically throughout our relationship I had to forgive him only once, for that kiss with a random girl at a party that happened about a month into us dating. I didn't find out about the rest of the incidents until a few months ago. So in my head the 7 other incidents almost got all lumped in into 1 big cheating that he is now asking me to forgive him for. My mind is clearly poisoned and I am attached to this person. Had I found out about the second incident as it happened, I don't think I would be here right now. But this almost makes his cheating even worse - the fact that he did it many times and hid it for years, keeping me in the dark, without giving me a chance to forgive him or leave. And what's hard is that our relationship seemed so perfect like he didn't just come back from a trip where he kissed 4 random girls. Maybe that makes him even scarier, the fact that he is able to hide it so well like nothing happened?

And then he did tell me all of it eventually and I probably would have never found out otherwise. I am not trying to justify his actions. It's just hard to break that illusion of a perfect relationship I thought we had.

This is worse that just cheating. It is a life style and sounds very much as sex addiction. The number of people he has had sex with lines up with an addiction.

If you don’t love him why even think about staying with him? Is it because he cried and begged forgiveness? Did he disclose? If so, and he gets intense therapy, there might be a slim chance he is going to stop. But. You still need to make sure you don’t have some nasty critters lurking because you KNOW he did not use protection. You need to have tests and then visit a lawyer to make sure your finances are safe.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 1:17 AM, Wednesday, June 11th]

I don’t know if he will change. It is possible he never cheats again. It’s possible he continues to cheat.

Without professional counseling for him, the odds are he will not change. I’m not suggesting marriage counseling, I’m saying individual counseling for him w/ someone who is experienced in cheating and infidelity.

Now for you. I would suggest you don’t make ANY decisions about your marriage for 3 months. This will give you time to really see if your H is committed to you, the marriage, monogamy etc.

I think you would benefit from professional counseling just for you. Someone to support you as you go through this healing process.

Now for some practical advice. You need to financially protect yourself. You should have your own credit cards (not joint). I would suggest cancelling all joint credit cards. Now. If you decide to split up, he cannot run up balances that you might be responsible for.

Get your own bank account and put $ in it every month. It’s your $. Figure out other ways to financially protect yourself too

Welcome to SI and I'm sorry that you're here. At the top of the forum, there are some posts that we encourage new members to read. There are some other posts that aren't pinned but have bull's eye icons that are also good resources. The Healing Library is at the top of the site and is another great resource. Also, take a look in the ICR (I Can Relate) forum that you may find helpful.

You should be tested for STDs/STIs because there are some nasty diseases out there that can turn into cancer and kill you. So, Mr. KindandCaring is willing to put your life at risk with his behaviors. If you're having trouble with depression or anxiety or sleep, ask your doc for some meds to get you through for the short-term.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist can be very helpful. This is trauma and it can affect you in many ways. Some people who have experienced infidelity have been found to have lesions on their brain similar to stroke victims.

And you really haven't been with him that long. Maybe take some time to detach emotionally and evaluate what you would like in your life. You really haven't been together for that long.

Your WH (wayward husband) should read the book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald and Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. HTHYSHFYA is a short book and is a nice blueprint he can use. NJF is much more detailed (you can read it, too). One of the chapters is about setting boundaries. She uses the analogy of windows and walls to explain. You have windows between you & your spouse because there are certain things that are only for the two of you. You establish walls with others because they are not in your relationship and shouldn't have access to certain things.

Because he's a serial cheater, change for him is going to be rough. A lot of serial cheaters don't put forth the effort to change. There are some that do, but they're a unicorn.

I wouldn't recommend MC (marriage counseling) at this time. The M (marriage) didn't cheat - he did. BS heals the BS, the WS heals the WS and then you can work with MC if you would like. Many MCs aren't equipped to deal with infidelity and can subtly shift part of the blame to you, or help the WS not disclose information to you. They are good at helping communication and with the relationship.

One thing to remember is that the cheating is 100% his choice. It isn't because you did something or didn't do something, said something or didn't say something. It was his selfish choices.

I just don’t know if it’s worth fighting for. If I can ever regain trust and the same love.

These are things you may never know, and things we can't tell you, unfortunately.

It's all quite a mess, though. I wonder if you're considering staying because of your own guilt for your EA.

You say you're young, I kinda wonder how old you both were when you married. Even though you say he had a number of sexual partners prior to marriage, it sounds like it just remained part of his "lifestyle" and that he really was not ready for marriage. I do think you're fooling yourself thinking he "can be different". He's never been different, and I think that it's rare for people to really change who they are. I wonder what prompted him to tell you. The dubious me thinks that he thought you were about to find out some other way, and he had no choice.

I don't think you're naive because naive implies that you don't know better. The term that I would use is willfully ignorant.

You know that you have no reason to trust your husband, who has cheated on you and every other relationship that he's had. You know that he's a rampant serial cheater, you know that he's screwing around behind your back whenever the opportunity arises, but you're choosing pretend you're stupid even though you're clearly not because it's easier than confronting reality.

My guess is that you've already exhausted all your friends and family talking about this, which is why you're now on the Internet, hoping that you'll find at least one person who disagrees with them. In fact, I'm willing to bet good money that he's made passes at your friends in the past. The type of guy you're describing is not respectful or discreet, and would cast his line into a parking lot puddle on the off chance there was a fish in it.

For every cockroach you see, there are 100 you don't. If you've discovered him cheating 8 times-- which is a truly astronomical number, in my opinion--then he's probably been very actively cheating on you for your entire relationship. I also don't believe for a second that he's just running around just giving people "kisses"; I think he's admitted to the bare minimum of what he believes you're willing to tolerate.

Don't waste your time, your fertility, or your sanity on another second with this guy.

SackofSorry

I wonder what prompted him to tell you. The dubious me thinks that he thought you were about to find out some other way, and he had no choice.

I thought about this, too, and assuming he had no reason to think she would find out on her own, I think he gets off cheating on her, rubbing her face in it a little bit, and getting away with it. Some men really get off on creating high-drama situations.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:32 PM, Wednesday, June 11th]

Thank you all for your responses.

@Cooley2here He said the morning after he had sex with another girl, he went to get tested to make sure he didn't get anything. Both of us are clean, thankfully. He said he did use a condom though, which I hardly believe anything anymore and frankly I don't care. That's the part i don't understand, why am I still here? I think I just created this fantasy in my head of a perfect guy and a perfect relationship and also the changes he's made this past month or so, that I think I could overlook what happened? We've been inseparable since we first started talking, we've been building a business from the start together, so it's hard to imagine life without him and that all that I dreamt will just vanish. But I know I shouldn't think about business, finances and all that when it comes to this. I know there are probably plenty of good men out there who will share my passion for building a business and do it with me or I can do it myself. I know it will be harder but not impossible. He did disclose but i think partially why he disclose is because of my emotional affair. I think he thought that now i would be more likely to forgive him now that he forgave me. Plus, the girl he had sex with most recently lives in the same city and I know he was nervous about that - he didn't want to take a chance and me finding out from her, although it was a slim chance. And of course, he felt guilty and could't live with this lie, especially because he wants a family with me, so he says.

@SackOfSorry You are right, he wasn't ready for marriage. Everything happened so quick with us, we didn't date long before getting married, we were very early twenties. I knew about his sexual past and decided to ignore it because I thought I was different and was able to change him. And that's what he also told me, that he would tell every other girl, that he wasn't ready for a relationship, wouldn't commit, it was all casual sex/dating, but when we met, it was different, we fell in love and got married. Reckless, really. In terms of telling me; I think he thought that now i would be more likely to forgive him now that he forgave me for my EA. Plus, the girl he had sex with most recently lives in the same city and I know he was nervous about that - he didn't want to take a chance and me finding out from her, although it was a slim chance. And of course, he felt guilty and could't live with this lie, especially because he wants a family with me, so he says.

@BluerThanBlue You are right. Oh and he did have sex, most recent time. Although it's possible there were more times that he is not telling me. I haven't talked with anyone about this. In my family's eyes he is the perfect guy and always has been. He has a very good relationship with my mom, always helps her with everything. She loves him. I am very close with my mom but I feel like i can't tell her. I know the moment I tell her, it might change everything for us, change their relationship. That's why I am trying to make this decision on my own. I know if I decide to stay with him, I would burry this information and never tell our families. Maybe that's not the way to do it? I don't know; I've never been in this situation before.

All in all, what makes it hard now is all the good memories, his treatment throughout our relationship (cheating aside) - he cleans, he cooks, he is kind, caring, we communicate well, he handles fights in a mature way, he is patient with my emotional outbursts, generous, list goes on and on. Plus, how he is acting now - the changes he is making (but i know it's way too recent to judge that). Plus, the freaking business that we've been building together from the start and now he is working extra long hours and all disciplined and stuff (he struggled with that in the past) and i keep thinking, oh what if I leave him and he will take it to the next level, like we always dreamt of? And i was there all these years but will leave now and won't enjoy the fruit of it after all. But I know that's the wrong thing to think about. I am clearly so poisoned. So broken.

Please insist he find a SA therapist today. His addiction is so entrenched that he has basically split his personality in two. The loving caring partner vs the trawling sex addict always on the look out.
Addictions are so difficult to conquer. All of his energy would be trying to hang on by his fingernails and yet do his daily pretend life. Because his real life is his addiction.

That is your reality. What you can tolerate. I can only insert what I would do. If I stayed I would give an ultimatum that sobriety would be ongoing for at least a year. His brain, in his addiction, works differently than yours. It needs time, lots of time. I would also look for the support group for SA spouses.

  Moving to General

I am happy reconciled and believe in redemption.

However, you are young enough to start over and I think you should. I am with Cooley on this one, and while I recognize some people do not believe sex addiction to be real, I certainly do and have known two people long term who struggled with it and never really overcame it. We are talking I have known them both since my early twenties and they are now well into their fifties and fidelity has never been their strong suit. Stable relationships have come and gone in their life, and each tend to stay with their new spouse or girlfriend for 5-15 years until she gets tired of the cheating or finally discovers it, whatever may be the case. They both like having a wife appliance-but also tend to hang into their freedom.

I will add that both are narcissistic (like text book) and very charming. Like probably could sell you the San Francisco bridge. And when you realize you don’t own it, can still somehow sell you a different bridge in its place saying they made a mistake.

If you aren’t ready, you should get into therapy. Some women tend to be drawn to these bad boy types and you should evaluate if this is something in you. Add the element of an emotional affair and I think you are drawn to chaos like a moth to a flame. You spend a lot of time here defending him, meaning you do not seem ready to let go, but this marriage sounds way more like a trauma bond than love.

Work on yourself, focus on what you need, find a way to get more objective about your husband. If your best friend wrote this, what would you tell her?

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:30 PM, Wednesday, June 11th]

I don’t really know what you want us to say. After all – I don’t think you are ready or want to end this relationship, and I think probably 99% of us here think either that it’s the best thing to do, or that you are bound to an inevitable next d-day.

Well... I might strive to give you some hope.
Only... that hope isn’t nor shouldn’t be based on hopium alone, but rather around some reality.
Your husband can change. There is nothing forcing him to hit on other women or to cheat. It’s not as if he melts into a puddle of molten flesh if he doesn’t pinch an ass or get someone to orally please him. There is no life-necessity to flirt online.
At the same time – changing isn’t as easy as just deciding to change. Many need professional support or peer-support. Like an alcoholic might want to stop, but chances are he needs detox and then support of others to keep sober.
So his ability to stop, to change – is IMHO based on two factors. One is his own determination, and that is key. No matter what help he get’s, if he doesn’t want to quit he won’t. The second is the help he gets. A good indicator for the former is how active he is in searching for and utilizing the later.

Crying at your shoulder and wondering what you, he, his family... all that... that made him "have to" cheat... That is not working. That is simply trying to guilt you into remaining.

So definitely look into his actions. If he’s going to counseling (IC) and it’s not because you needle him into it then that’s positive. If he’s being accountable that’s positive. If he’s staying away from situations that enabled him to cheat, that’s positive.

That could give you hope, but you need to be so ultra-realistic that if he does none of the above then he’s about 99% going to cheat again. And be remorseful again. And promise change again. And cheat again.

While waiting for the change, you should look into separating your personal and professional lives. Like have a very clear charter that outlines ownership of your joint company, and a plan in place as to how things will go when/if he cheats again.
Make consequences clear to him. Not with threats or unclear messages. More like:
For my own sanity I can’t condone any new infidelity, and if you decide to cheat again then be very clear that I am leaving this marriage, and we do this with our company (whatever "this" is).
I think you definitely need to be clear on what you want. If you aren’t into threesomes then don’t accept them. If you aren’t happy with him partying then don’t accept it. Be clear on what you want, and what you can’t accept.

Maybe even have a small book where you outline whatever progress – or lack of it – he is making on a weekly basis. In the same book, outline how you are creating the conditions where you can clearly move on with the minimum of disruption IF he fails again. Because – friend – without IMMENSE change he is going to fail again.

All in all, what makes it hard now is all the good memories, his treatment throughout our relationship (cheating aside) - he cleans, he cooks, he is kind, caring, we communicate well, he handles fights in a mature way, he is patient with my emotional outbursts, generous, list goes on and on. Plus, how he is acting now - the changes he is making (but i know it's way too recent to judge that). Plus, the freaking business that we've been building together from the start and now he is working extra long hours and all disciplined and stuff (he struggled with that in the past) and i keep thinking, oh what if I leave him and he will take it to the next level, like we always dreamt of? And i was there all these years but will leave now and won't enjoy the fruit of it after all. But I know that's the wrong thing to think about. I am clearly so poisoned. So broken.

All of these qualities that he has are qualities that you should expect from a loving spouse; they aren't exceptional qualities that somehow negate all of his cheating.

And while you're responsible for your own behavior and reactions to things, you need to consider whether your "emotional outbursts" and your own EA are due to the fact that you're not safe or valued in your relationship.

As for you shared business, I can tell you that someone who is deceptive, impulsive, and engages in high-risk behavior (such as hooking up with strippers and having one-night stands) is not someone you can trust as a partner, either. Cheating doesn't happen in a vacuum; it's part of a larger pattern of behavior. What if your business gets big enough that you start hiring employees and he hooks up with or harasses women in the work place? What if he moves money around without telling you or makes false statements to clients? What if he decides to leave you years from now and you have to start over from scratch in your 30s, 40s, or 50s? What if you get an STD? What if he gets someone pregnant and you end up having to pay for prenatal care and child support?

If you're smart, capable, and hard-working, you will be able to start up again on your own and be successful. You're in your 20s and you have time on your side. It will be much harder for you to recover if you invest time, energy, and money into continuing your venture with a person you can't trust, only to have the business crash and your professional reputation destroyed.

I also advise you into avoiding latching on to the sex addict label. First, it's not officially recognized as a clinical diagnosis and there are a lot of quacks out there with dubious certifications calling themselves SA therapists. Second, it's too easy to dismiss his choices as an "illness" rather than an expression of his character (or lack thereof). The fact is, he sounds like a good looking, clever, and charming guy who is very adept at getting what he wants from women-- whether it's obtaining them as sexual partners or convincing them to give him multiple "second chances" that he doesn't deserve.

But if you do choose to remain in this relationship, I would advise the following:

-Use condoms and other barrier methods during sex with him to avoid getting an STD. You should probably go on PrEP as well.

-Keep your finances separate, both to protect your own financial security

-Get a post-nuptial agreement

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:58 PM, Wednesday, June 11th]

No kids? And he cheated 8 times I would run like the wind. This is something that is going to stay with you for the rest of your life. Being exposed to the perpetrator (WS) keeps those A memories alive. With a track record like his I wouldn't doubt he cheats again. Don't be me. I stayed with a serial cheater and it wrecked me and my mental health. I unfortunately had kids with the perpetrator but I did eventually get enough wits about me to D. Life has been amazing since my D. I'm no longer exposed to him, I don't have to worry about catching an STD from him (he gave me 2), the A's no longer haunt me, I have peace of mind.

I don't weigh in with an opinion very often on these threads because I'm fairly new here, but eight times six years into the marriage is not a good sign at all. I was married for 26 years before my wife strayed with a guy, and that was only a couple of months ago. I'm still on the fence over that one. I can't imagine 8 different times ovet 27 years, let alone within the first six. I see this as a pattern of behavior that is very unlikely to change. I would get out.

Sex addiction is not a diagnosis, and we are not qualified to diagnose people any way. Love addiction is similar in that way, but I know what I have experienced. My affair was not the only love addiction I have had in my life. I simply had a 20+ year sobriety period. I was treated for OCD and given referrals to addiction groups. It will always be a possibility should I ever choose to enter the dating pool again.

However, it’s splitting hairs- because other than that I am on the same page as blue. I would strongly argue just because someone has a disorder doesn’t mean you should feel sorry for them and stay with them. Doing so can be extremely detrimental to your on well being depending on how much the other person wants to manage it. There is no cure for addiction- it is something that has to be managed for the rest of your life. And relapse is often part of that process. And people do not often wer condoms in the affair, just because he hasn’t brought you herpes or some other incurable STD doesn’t mean he won’t.

I brought up NPD earlier because frequently it’s linked to many types of addiction. The way you describe your husband I strongly suspect he should be evaluated for that above all else. And please if he has that, do not even consider staying, it’s incurable and by the time you get out of the marriage you will be an empty husk.

Regardless of if he has something more pathological going on, Addiction takes years to overcome and many never overcome it at all. You are young and can find a loving, less complicated relationship.

One day of you want to have a baby, you want to do it with someone who isn’t going to act out when your energy and attention must shift towards the infant. Nor do you want to bring up a child in a relationship that is slowly killing you,subjecting them to resentment and turmoil.

The resentment will build because I truly believe at this point he is unlikely to stop. Especially when there are no big consequences to his actions. You already mention your feelings rent the same, imagine where you will be the next time and the time after that.

Please go to therapy and sort this out with someone in real life. I understand why you haven’t told anyone- but at least talk to an objective party who can help you work though this.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:07 PM, Wednesday, June 11th]