SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey all, looking for some impartial third party opinions on this -

My former WH and I are, again, really struggling for a number of reasons. We would both describe the relationship currently as like live-in coparents. In an effort to reconnect, he asked that we both share a list of 5 things we love about the other person.
this was his list -

1 - you are such a beautiful person on the inside. You’re what I would want to be a person. You’re kind, honest, high Intergrity.
2- you are an amazing mother. There is no one in this world that I would want to be the mother of my children. You are a perfect mom in all respects
3-you as well have incredible work ethic, drive and ownership. That’s why you have always been successful in anything you put your mind to
4-your level of commitment. To us. To your family. Again, anything you put your mind to you are fully engaged and committed. Example would be your commitment to our marriage. You’re still here when you could have left.
5- you’re my wife. You will be and only be the one woman in this world that I can truly say I love and would call my wife. I am honoured to have you by side

My question is - if you got this list from your spouse. What would you think?

Eh. I would still be like, and yet all of these things you say are lovable about me and you chose to treat me this way. It holds no water to me when the actions don’t align.

But, that aside, it also reads like a list of things he aspires to be within himself and like he’s valuing your commitment to him and the family, and like he’s putting you on a pedestal. It feels like fluff. Like he’s gassing you up. At least, that’s how I would take it. Especially after infidelity. I’d be more interested in the why’s behind the choices and start to dig into what the heck made him choose to hurt you as badly as he did. Most of it is surely rooted in his own self views and lack of value with himself. And until he learns to work through those, he won’t really know how to honor and love you and treat you the way you deserve.

My two cents anyway.

Multiple things would bother me.

I would totally take being told Im beautiful on the inside the wrong way for one.

Then theres a list of highly positive partner traits that you carry. If you are like me, Before there was any notion of infidelity, you likely considered those traits a matter of highest personal pride in your life.

But in retrospect, because of the cheating, you might feel tricked, manipulated, used. And loved only for your uses and assigned responsibilities.

Which is the grossest feeling in the world.

Infidelity ruins our relationship with the best, most beautiful parts of ourselves.

Dont resent being a wonderful person, a loving parent, and a devoted partner just for his lack of those things. Not saying that you do. I presently struggle with that.

Take care of your heart.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 12:13 PM, Monday, March 24th]

I think it’s an awesome list.
I also think it supports what we always insist on here on this site: They don’t cheat because of us, but despite us.
I don’t think being called beautiful on the inside is any form of downer. Its not as if he said that despite your scarred and tired body then inside it there is a beautiful person. I would all-day prefer that my spouse value my characteristics rather than my looks.

Is he still sober?

My first thought was to tell awoel to stop bragging. Ha, ha.

But now I have to ask maise and 5blue, what are 5 things, or even a couple of things, you would hope would be on your spouse’s list?

Alright, thanks for the perspective! My immediate thought when I saw it was that almost none of these things have anything to do with who I am as a person or my personality…. And mostly just what I do for him or for our kids. Being a great mother, commitment, literally just being his wife…. Those are roles. What I provide for him, how I support him. Maybe I’m just being bitter about it. Like what is #5 even?? He loves me just because I’m his wife? Because I’ve filled the role? Because it’s a possessive thing he gets to call "his"?

awoel,

My advise is, keep that list somewhere safe.

When you get in a better place, you’ll treasure it.

My husband does the same thing in these scenarios. It is a list of who I am to him rather than who I am as hikingout.

However, I think he admires your values. That’s what I get from what he wrote. I think number five is a bit of a cop out- I love you because you are my wife?

However-

If you all aren’t feeling connected, these may be the ties that bind, and they aren’t bad ties. He might have a completely different list after reconnecting. And in reality, in long term relationships, there is an ebb and flow. Times that we feel madly in love, times we are further apart. Being able to know why you are committed during the ebb is a good thing for a ws. After all it means they are learning to honor their commitments when they aren’t getting all the love , sex, and connection they would like to.

I would also give him points for starting the conversation. He is telling you "I would love us to connect more and restore some of the softer parts of our marriage" and over all I would honor that as a bid for connection. Both things show growth from where you have previously been in your marriage.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:45 PM, Monday, March 24th]

I get it!

You want romance & passion and all that goes with it.

It would have been ok (I think) if he said you are the hottest sexiest woman I know.

We all want/need that.

Like so many betrayeds, he’s happy and content. He’s relieved you didn’t kick him to the curb.

For the betrayed, it’s sad the cheater doesn’t understand the trauma and pain and hit to the self esteem we endure.

I second what hikingout said.

This seems like a good starter list, but it seems almost like an employee review. I'm wondering what would happen if you agreed to give each other lists once a week or so and agree that there can't be any repeats.

My husband and I did this little exercise where we picked one word that encapsulates the other person, and the word he picked for me is "SOLID". It's not sexy, but it is true. I mostly like it, but there's a little bit of underlying resentment that I have to be the solid one in the relationship. I am the pole to his flag. What's really, really cool, though, is that he's working very hard to try to be solid for me, too. He also views me as his muse, so that's cool.

I'm curious - what was on your list for him?

There's a lot to be proud of on that list! BUT Awoe, I agree with you 100%. Don't think you're being bitter at all. I'd be disappointed if my H handed me a list like this one. You're right - he's mostly complimenting how great you are at fulfilling your roles. How you're of service - such a great wife appliance. And it's supposed to be a list of things he loves about YOU, but he managed to make it about him. He's a focus and his "wants" are in four out of 5 items "you're what I would want to be...... I would want to be.the mother of MY children......." etc.

The wording of # one felt strange as well. Kind of a backhanded compliment. Why not simply say "You are such a beautiful person" a leave out the "on the inside" bit? Maybe I'm reading too much into that. Could be he was trying to not make it about your superficial appearance. An inherent pitfall of these forced romantic written exercises is how one could endlessly parse and judge each word.

Wondering where he got the idea to do this exercise? It feels like an MC assignment or some kind of "love languages" stuff. It could be a positive sign he wants to get an exchange going. Important to honor that. **ETA: Warning - unsolicited advice ahead :-). Been thinking about how I'd use this experience to open an honest dialog if this happened to me. Take it or leave it. Hope it helps.** But......If he's serious about hoping to reconnect, he should be open to uncomfortable emotional honesty as well as glib structured romantic exercises that force reciprocity. Hope you'll be honest with him about how this list made you feel. It won't be the response he was hoping for, but sometimes emotional honesty (even brutal honesty) is crucial to building a new TRULY reciprocal partnership after infidelity. Sharing how that list made you feel could be a great way to really connect emotionally. Give him an opportunity to put himself in your shoes. And vice-versa - why did he choose these attributes? And, even if the exchange is challenging, it's a reminder that rebuilding/maintainig intimacy can be a tough slog. It's not all "here's my love languages" and bam we're good lol. Heck, maintaining healthy emotional intimacy can be a challenge in marriages without the added burden of betrayal! Hang in there, Awoe.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 2:34 AM, Tuesday, March 25th]

I have the same exact list.

I think the same as you, none of it is about me but what I provide for him and our family.
My H is emotionally inept so when he gave me the list I was slightly disappointed because I would love to have seen something cute and romantic but in reality that is not, nor has ever been my H strong point.
I know he thinks I’m beautiful, sexy, funny etc, these are a basic requirement for most men, they don’t need to tell you this, it’s just standard. The qualities you possess and provide for them however are much more important and valuable to them than a pretty face.
Please don’t take offence to your H list, he’s basically telling you that you are irreplaceable.

(But I also know we like to be told we’re pretty, they don’t get it)

Thoughts around these topics bothered me for a long time after the affair. The question I asked was what initially attracted my WH to me, other than intense physical attraction because that was obvious. I think I had read a study from the Gottmans that said if you can recall why you were initially attracted, it indicated there was still respect and not contempt.

Anyway, my WH's answers haunted me because it's the exact opposite of what his AP and he exhibited during their affair. If you admire/love "kind, honest, high Intergrity" or "Solid", why pursue the opposite? Granted his answers were a bit different, but in that general area. I really had to work to resolve that conflict.

My therapist when I was a teen/young adult once asked me what quality I admired or loved most about each parent. Then she asked which one I disliked the most. She asked if I could see that in some ways they are part of the same quality or trait. I could. I tried the experiment after the affair with my WH and his own parents. It was similar. Maybe we can love or want qualities and also at times dislike those qualities or pursue their opposite.

A movie that I always thought portrayed an affair accurately is "Intersection". Richard Gere is the husband, Sharon Stone is the wife, and I don't know the actress who portrayed the AP/mistress. The couple ran a business along with the wife's father and had a child and full life together. The AP is single and spontaneous and fun. You can't say that Sharon Stone from the 1990s isn't drop dead gorgeous and sexy. She is also very much about keeping the family and business and life running smoothly. She's solid. The WH is selfish and self-centered and thinks he deserves everything without giving.

The movie paralleled my own father's affair and the dissolution of our family. I also got to see the rest of the fallout. My father eventually wanted to return to his life and family but was no longer welcome by many.

Anyway, if I'm anything like Sharon Stone in that movie, I'm fine with it. However, I will point out that if you asked the AP's husband what qualities he admired about her, I bet he would say she's a great wife and mother, kind, high integrity, hard working, committed to her family, etc. I read plenty of texts between AP/WH. She displayed other qualities in her affair. She played a different role. How do you resolve that?

I’d be scared to include "beautiful, sexy, great body, etc." in a list I posted here.

I’d get flamed into ashes.

I sometimes feel like this sort of list is a trap and don't like forced sentimentality or romance.

It can be criticized for what is left off. It can be criticized for phrasing. It can be criticized for being superficial. It can be criticized for insincerity. It can be criticized for being too cheesy...

Love isn't a list of features that add up to love.

Thisisfine,

That’s where I get stuck a little too.

When my husband thinks about what I mean to him I don’t think he thinks I am an interchangeable wife appliance. But the things he appreciates are going to be things that feel good about me to him.

He never puts I like that you wash the clothes and the dishes. But he loves that I am loving.

I think the husband in this scenario is saying "I would like us to work on our closeness" but because he cheated, she is going to be looking for more romantic things from him. To him, these are romantic things.

I mean I don’t sit and write down "I love you are a good provider" or that "I feel safer or more protected that he is in the house" but what he wrote here would be kind of the equivalent.

I liked the idea someone else through out there- kind of an ongoing gratitude list that you do each day or once a week or something. Where you affirm the things you noticed through the day or week or whatever.

I even struggle with the daily gratitude list or other stuff like this.

I mean, I get the gottman "Turn toward" stuff right. Work on closeness.

But we humans like things that benefit us. You are never going to be able to make a sincere list about what you like about another person without somehow saying "I like that you make me feel good".

This0is0Fine,

I agree with this. If I'm honest, I like the quality when it benefits me, but not when it doesn't. I like that my WH is hard-working and ambitious. I liked that when I met him. I was the same. After I felt we had enough, I wanted him to slow down. Now it's annoying sometimes. But really, he's the same person. He just takes that quality past where I like it now.

I don't feel like any of this is superficial or sentimental though. It is good for us to recognize and appreciate the difference between our personalities, and to also elaborate where that causes friction and conflict in our relationship. We can do both.

I don't like acknowledging this or thinking about it, but I would not marry my husband as he is now and I am now. I mean in my current life or circumstances, if I were widowed or divorced, I don't think I'd choose him now. We were building a life before when we were younger. It was great and successful to all my dreams. I wouldn't want to start at nearly 60 with the same goals. I'm still counting on all of our past being a continuation of that life, but I'm not sure either of us would choose each other without the background. I'm ok with that, and I trust he is too.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 8:40 PM, Monday, March 24th]

You are never going to be able to make a sincere list about what you like about another person without somehow saying "I like that you make me feel good".

Agree with that wholeheartedly. Most people can not do that. I think some people can but I have tried and it’s hard to do. I mean I do admire his resilience, work ethic, sense of humor, etc. but that’s just traits it doesn’t encompass love. Love is an action.

To me a gratitude practice really wouldn’t be framed this way. It would be more about appreciation of things that were happening (actions)more as a way of noticing those efforts.

If you are a disconnected couple in the throes of parenting it’s sometimes easy to fall away from noticing all the other does. I wouldn’t think it’s "today I just want to say you are pretty"

It’s more "hey I really appreciated when you did this…"

To me that’s more about noticing the other and building some goodwill towards reconnecting.

I am big on gratitude practices though, because in having them it causes you to notice more of the good. In marriage, I think it’s important you accentuate the good of the other.

We do not do anything that structured anymore but we are both still very good to say thank iou and other words of appreciation. Recently he helped me with my spring garden clean up and reset and I made sure to say more than thank u oh but to notice his motivation to go out of his way to make me happy (he spent time sourcing materials and hauling stuff, and he did it all cheerfully)

That’s what I meant. Sometimes it takes a grateful heart to start moving towards each other. Besides, my affair happened when I was taking him for granted, telling myself I sacrificed more, etc. this creates a more abundant feeling in our marriage. But, I would marry him again how he is today.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:04 PM, Monday, March 24th]

I had the same reaction as BoundaryBuilder in that this list reads more like a customer service review of a wife appliance than qualities or characteristics that he appreciates specifically about your as a human being. It's also so... generic. Like he could put in "What are the 5 qualities of a good wife and mother?" into ChatGPT and get this exact same response.