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My husband suggested I post here. I am afraid to but I am also desperate. I lied to my husband for 10 years and just told him about it last year, via freudian slip. I was fingered by coworkers and a customer. Now he believes there was PIV because I was carrying around condoms "in case" but I never used them. I have passed a polygraph but it doesn’t matter. It is very hard to talk about. I am afraid I will leave something important out and he will come at me upset, understandably so. I am losing hope. We have seen marriage counselors to no avail and just got a specialist. I am praying she is more helpful. I am scared because she wants to latch onto my past alcohol use for reasons of memory lapse and I think that pisses him off. I don’t blame him. I don’t know what to do. I keep getting upset and making it about me. I feel so lost. I am so sick and tired of being judged. I like to think I’ve turned my life around but the truth is I’ve been deceptive recently without even realizing it. It seems to be such a badly ingrained habit. For example, when I switched purses I put the condoms back in the nightstand but forgot I had done that. I’m beginning to doubt myself after a year of being questioned but I know in my heart what I know to be true and I’m not willing to make something up to make it all go away. I know I must sound crazy, I’m at my wits’ end. I can’t stop crying. If people are unkind, I am afraid I will break.

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 5:06 PM, Monday, March 17th]

Look, I will not be unkind here but surely you understand this makes no sense. Maybe it’s in the retelling, so make it make sense:

Your affairs were back in 2014, correct? These condoms were all bought later like 2018 and 2019. Why carry them around? Why keep one of your AP’s in your phone?

And your husband says you don’t really drink? Other than drinking heavily around the time of your affairs? Can you elaborate why the counselor thinks you lost your memory to drinking?

What do you feel you have changed since back then?

Yes my affairs were in 2014. No the condoms that I was carrying were all around in 2014.
I carried them around because I didn’t think anything of it. You don’t have to believe me. I don’t expect you to. I don’t know why I posted here. I guess because I was in a lot of pain. I should’ve gone with my gut. I knew it would be a bad idea. Now if I allow myself I’m just going to be running around in circles with you here.
I kept my AP’s number in my phone so I could keep it blocked. Again, you don’t have to believe me. I know you’re not going to. I’ve made a mistake in posting here. You’ve already made up your mind.
I used to drink a lot back then. Now I don’t.
I used to allow myself to be around certain people. Now I don’t. I used to try to hide. Now I don’t. I’m sorry I said anything at all. I wish I didn’t.

I simply asked for your side of the story. I had your husbands. I found a lot of help here, in fact it was crucial to my recovery. I cheated on my husband, so if you think I am a saint or judgmental I am not. However, I will bow out so that you may feel more comfortable to stay, as I realize I have been protective of your husband in my posts to him.

I feel like both of your posts are extremely defensive, which means to me that if anyone questions that is not okay. I hope you will reflect on that as others chime in. We can’t help you if you have parameters around trying to understand your story or see what your side is.

I wish you both healing.

I guessed you were going to say I am defensive. It is very hard for me to open up and be vulnerable like this. Ever since I have cried wolf, now no one believes me when I am telling the truth. I’m not asking for pity. I’m just telling it like it is.
It’s not that questions aren’t ok; it’s that I’ve been asked the same ones over and over and even know that I’m telling the truth I’m not being believed.
I know my head isn’t in the right place. But I am trying to get there. I do love my husband more than anything. I want to do right by him. I don’t want to hurt him anymore. I want to make him smile again.
I know I’m a selfish entitled spoiled brat. It’s hard for me to admit because I don’t want to show weakness. I don’t know who I can trust. My marriage is the most important thing to me in the world. I know, so rich coming from me.
I’m embarrassed to be here. I’m trying to set that down so I can help the man I love who is hurting. It’s hard for me not to get caught up in the pain of seeing him suffer. I’m working on it. I am by no means good at it but I’d like to get there.
I know I need to be humble. I want to be. My ego is so fragile. I guess the first mistake I made right off the bat was making this about me. I am ashamed. I feel hopelessly irredeemable. I’m trying not to drown in that. I need to reframe my thinking. I know no one can do that for me.
I actually appreciate you being on my husband’s side. I just wish I was worthy enough to make you be on my marriage’s side. And it feels very dangerous to say anything derogatory about myself around people I don’t know when I’m fighting to hold onto the man I love the most, who I hurt the most, who I don’t deserve.

Thank you for responding.

I am on the side of the marriage if it can be healthy for the two people in it. I believe reconciliation can be beautiful and everyone is redeemable if they so choose that path.

I will offer this book suggestion- "rising strong" by Brene Brown. It helps me see that vulnerability does take courage, but it is so worthwhile. She have some some good examples to help me work on it.

The only way you will get to where you are going is to be vulnerable and open. But telling you that is a little like when you tell people "I am worried" and they say "don’t worry" because it is a complex issue you are working to overcome.

A lot of it is shame. I believe it’s not just shame from the affair but likely an accumulation of shame from the time you were young until now.

Guilt can be healthy as it can precipitate change.it’s "I feel badly for doing this bad thing"

Remorse can be healthy because being curious about another persons pain that we caused can help us strengthen our resolve and be there for them. It helps us to know what we have damaged and to make amends. Its "I feel badly for hurting you- I will fight to make this right"

Shame is "I am bad". Like it’s a core issue that demeans us and keeps our self worth very low. You are not all bad or good, nor are any of us.

Shame is not productive. It makes us avoidant, defensive, secretive. When we heal some of the past (which I am sure they will work on in your therapy) we can become present rather than avoidant, we can see we are simply people who Have acted on our worst instincts.

I have certainly done a lot of things I regret. Especially cheating. You have posted in the wayward forum with a stop sign so only fellow "waywards" can answer you. So don’t imagine us with pitchforks and criticism. Imagine us as people who have been where you have been, done some of the same things you have done, and many of us are healthy, happy, and in great marriages today. Some of us are healthy, happy and divorced.some of us are rill in stages of figuring ourselves out.

Your feelings of being criticized are coming up because you are that way with yourself.

If you have fully come clean, work on that- work on your self compassion and you will loose your defensiveness.

If you have not come clean, I would do that. It may make things worse temporarily but it’s like cutting open an area that is infected and letting it roll out so that it can be stitched and bandaged and the healing can begin.

I can’t claim to know which of those things are or aren’t. I am a stranger on the internet so I have to include all directions.

And I will include this- in some cases we have had people on here that have come clean and their spouse could never accept they knew everything because deep down they could not accept the affair. I do not know if that’s your situation either. If it is, it’s not something you can control, and you would likely need to leave the marriage because in that case the environment could never be healthy for either of you.

Right now, in my best ability to understand, Your husband seems to want to accept the affair and stay married. You both claim to feel gaslit. We are not judge and jury in here and now that we have both of you present we have to help each of you the best we can.

Also I am sorry I misunderstood the condom thing. For him to go through the telling of that made me see the strain he is currently under.

I will say I have been here a long time and defensiveness doesn’t always equal guilt. But when you write the way you do it comes across as manipulating. It sounds like I am victimizing you by asking you to explain it. And the manipulation is really to let us know you are going to hold us at an arms length and if we do not abide you will just leave and it will be our fault.

I will say that I don’t read your husbands posts this way. This to me doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have the truth, but it does mean you are in a heightened state. I hope you will continue to try and post and if you would rather me step away and leave it to the others to help I totally respect that. If not, I will do my best to be impartial, just know even when the ws comes here with no bs on the site I am still going to push them on things. Not because I think they are bad but because I can’t help you if I am just an echo chamber. People pushed me early on and I remember the tenderness. But I stayed and I got mad and conceded over and over again.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:46 PM, Monday, March 17th]

I was a Madhatter in a former relationship, so I have been on both the BP and WP sides of the fence.
First, you simply being here is a major step and I applaud you for that. It's evident that you're very upset right now, but trust that the people here want what's best for your marriage.
I can't offer any more wisdom than you're getting. But I will say that HikingOut is first-class on this topic. You're getting very good counsel. I recommend you let your guard down and trust her.
Stay strong.

Thank you both. I am open to the idea of letting my guard down but am still learning how to do so.

I really appreciate the reading recommendation. I had actually heard of it but hadn’t gotten it yet. I just ordered it.

Yes, there is definitely a lot of shame for almost as far back as I can remember. While I can recognize that it is not productive, I find it difficult to change this particular thought pattern. It’s almost as if certain neural pathways have been formed and they are very ingrained.

I am not sure how to not be critical of myself. I have come clean but no one believes me because I’ve ruined my reputation. It’s hard for me to see how I can justify self compassion when I’ve done so much damage to the person I love.

I am very thankful he does want to try and work this out. I know I am lucky. I have been failing miserably without even always realizing it honestly. I appreciate your desire and willingness to help.

It was scary for him because when I got a new purse and was transferring things over from the old one, I moved them to the nightstand without thinking. I gave it so little thought. It was so natural. If I was covering my tracks, I don’t understand why I wouldn’t have thrown them away. I didn’t realize until he showed me and I was holding it in my hand. That’s why I say, I feel like I’m losing it. That’s why I’m doubting my reality. Not complaining, just trying to explain. I’ve been questioned and (again, understandably) not believed for over a year, even after having passed a polygraph, so I’m really having trouble questioning my own memories. It is really frightening for me to both go through this and admit that I am going through it. The way this whole thing came out over a year ago was, he said, isn’t it crazy how people live double lives with other families? And without realizing I was saying it, I asked, you’re not going to leave me, are you?

I think I am manipulative without realizing it and need to become more self aware. I guess I do have a tendency to go into victim mode but it is not a conscious effort. I need to realize when I’m doing it so I can stop it.

I was very tempted to leave because I am very afraid to put our marriage in the hands of strangers. At the same time, I can recognize that I’ve really mishandled it. I would like to grow but I’m still trying to figure out how. This probably goes without saying but; Of the two of us, he is the more mature one.

I don’t have a lot of people to talk to. I don’t have a lot of friends and I’m too ashamed to talk to my family about it even though they already know and I don’t really trust them anyways. So thank you for lending an ear.

I understand the engrained comment. I had no idea how much I was getting in my own way. It will take realizing patterns and being mindful of what you tell yourself.

My self talk was very demeaning. What we think affects how we feel and how we act.

This is why when you talk about self compassion, I will tell you that you have it backwards.

I learned in my so far almost 8 year journey that if I don’t love myself, I can’t properly love others. It blocks me from feeling their love. It blocks me from being a fulllfilled person who is responsible for my own happiness.

I am sure it’s hard for you to read things people are writing. You just have to remember you know yourself. It’s scary because your husband is hearing things that you do not want him to get swept up and leave.

One of the fundamental things, and the hardest things to do is try and release the idea of what the outcome will be. Release the things you can’t control. Instead focus on what you can control.

I hope you will come and feel safe to ask for advice. At the end of the day, all most of us want here is healing. From what your husband is writing it’s obvious he has been traumatized, and whether there is truth behind his fears or not, only you know. I am not here to accuse you of anything. What your husband is writing doesn’t sound good, at the same time he is only a year out from knowing which makes better sense now that I know what it is I am looking at.

If he doesn’t have the full truth the best way to work through your shame is to practice honesty in all levels. It’s also the same if he does have the full truth. The fact he hasn’t had the truth in ten years means that he doesn’t have trust and that means you have to get very mindful about what you are telling him. It will only stabilize through earning trust from today forward. I am not accusing you of not being truthful about your level of affairs, because only you know the truth, I am responding to the idea you say you lie easily and without realizing it sometimes. We have many members here that do this. There was a recent post about that. I will find it and respond to it so it will come to the top of the forum. Lying wasn’t my issue but they had some very good tips about it.

And as for your shame- it’s the same thing. When I started taking everything day by day, hour by hour, and kept mindfully exercising my integrity, kept reaching for the next right thing, this is how I redeemed myself in my own eyes and it let me come out of the shadows of avoidance. I promise it feels better here and that’s when you can have self compassion- when you have grown, healed, and made things with those you hurt as right as you can. There is so much freedom in that and I want that for uou- I want that for him.

Keep posting. This site changed my life. It’s not as active in this forum as it used to be but there is still plenty here to read. Writing was beneficial for me, and admitting my human flaws eventually, when I was ready, helped me be less afraid of them. And then I could be the humble person I truly wanted to be- when I was my authentic self, and acting each day in love - for myself and for others. Taking yourself out of the self love takes away your ability to do it well for others. But building it takes a converted daily effort. You can do it if you really want it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:59 PM, Monday, March 17th]

I bumped the one about lying and one called the things I had to accept by daddydom. Also another one by daddy dom the title started with owning it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:04 PM, Monday, March 17th]

Thank you. Another thing I have been struggling with is I’ve been trying really hard to remember and when I try to remember, I can’t. And then things will randomly pop into my head when I least expect it. And then I’ll tell him, and then it’s like I’m trickle truthing him all over again. So that’s been really hard and I’m not sure what to do about it. I know my situation is probably unique in that it’s been a decade.

There are some other ws who talk about this. But you are right this wasn’t one of my particular issues.

One thing other members do is work out a timeline. It can help order things and give your mind time to bring some of those things to the surface.

Hopefully someone else will see your posts and chime in to fill in parts that I can not, as we all have different experiences. Keep in touch with us!

This might be a good read for you:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/586809/beyond-regret-and-remorse/?ap=101

Thank you for the recommended reading. The ones about "getting it" and contrition really spoke to me. I think I’ve been rationalizing this to my self for such a long time that it is very hard for even me to wrap my head around in an authentic way. I know I need to and I want to but it is so hard to accept the pain I’ve inflicted on him. I guess I’ve just been lying to myself about the whys of it and it doesn’t really matter why so much as that I did it. I’m having a really hard time seeing things clearly. I’ll talk to the therapist about it. It’s very unnerving to admit I’m uncertain about my reality. I don’t feel safe saying that. That also makes me feel like I’m not a person, like I don’t know my own identity. I’m not really sure where I’m going with this. That’s just where I’m at right now.

I think I am manipulative without realizing it and need to become more self aware. I guess I do have a tendency to go into victim mode but it is not a conscious effort. I need to realize when I’m doing it so I can stop it.

I want to applaud you for taking the risk to share here, and for owning your stuff. That takes guts.

Have you tried some counseling? Is that an option for you?

Thanks, I appreciate that.
We were seeing a couple of marriage counselors over the last year but we just found a specialist and met together with her last week. I am meeting with her alone this Thursday and then he’ll meet with her alone the following Thursday and then she’ll meet with both of us again the Thursday after that.
I know he has some trepidation about it because she seemed to want to latch onto my past alcohol use affecting my memories but I’ll try to address that with her.

That also makes me feel like I’m not a person, like I don’t know my own identity. I’m not really sure where I’m going with this. That’s just where I’m at right now

I understand this statement in a deep level. I felt this way after my dday, but all my stuff had a condensed timeline. Two month affair, two months in therapy, I confessed. I was too afraid what would happen if I didn’t. So I didn’t have the memory problem but the knowing myself was very sketchy.

I think whys can be a clue, but again, who you are today is not the same as when you had the affairs so they maybe less relevant. The counseling will help you sort through that.

I can only offer this- I was terrified, but as I began the process of holding these questions like "who am I", became more of a process of who do I want to be. I think that might be an easier question for you to ponder. As you become more mindful then you can start saying to yourself "is this helpful towards the person I am becoming". I encourage you to look for some of your strengths and passions in that process. Think of it as nurturing yourself. Pay attention to what you want and need and question your motivations when you feel you are saying or doing things that are inauthentic.

When I wanted to talk better to myself I would ask " would you say this to your best friend?"

Another great tactic is I would imagine that little girl I once had as and how I would be a person who could protect her, love her. And when I would say mean things about myself I would think about how I am talking to that little girl.

The way to overcome fear is love. Start by loving that innocent little girl. Think about the things she likes to do, or things you would pretend. There are a lot of clues about you from when you were younger. I remembered liking art and so I took some art classes. I liked watching my moms flowers grows so I started a garden.

These things seem so unrelated but they are part of your identity that you can get in touch with more immediately.

Then each day start thinking about what you value, what you are thankful for. It sounds like you are having a bit of an existential crisis from sleep walking through your life. The more you can start pulling those things together the more in touch with yourself you will become.

You want to start these things to get that base level stuff and adding those positive/light things you get in touch with will make you more balanced and less afraid of exploring the darker places.

We all can manipulate. Not all manipulations are intentional or malicious. It’s a passive aggressive way of stating what we want. It’s much easier and less veiled to just be more clear about what those things are and beginning to believe that you deserve them. It’s a long but worthwhile process.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:41 PM, Tuesday, March 18th]

Thank you so much for your reply. It was very helpful. It’s nice to not feel so alone and crazy in all of this.
Last year, when I told him, I literally didn’t recognize myself in the mirror because it was hard for me to see myself as a liar.
I am currently struggling with seeing myself as a monster.
I really like the idea of thinking of it in terms of who I’d like to be. That’s sounds workable, as long as I can keep myself focused.
I’ll have these revelations and then forget them so quickly. It’s very discouraging. For example, I woke up this morning with the idea in my head that I am so small in comparison to the universe; I am not the center of it. The fact that that was a revelation I had this morning is embarrassing to say out loud.
I didn’t realize how much I lacked self-awareness until I was at work today and then it suddenly became very apparent and hard to unsee. I take everything as a personal slight, even if someone is just innocently correcting me. I had to catch myself from going into a blind rage. I do have a lot of trauma from workplace bullying at my last job so that could have something to do with it, but it is unprocessed like everything in my life. My way of doing has always been to leave things in the past where they belong. I can now see how this has stunted my growth as a person.
It is very difficult for me to see my strengths and even know my passions right now. I like I have lost myself. I don’t believe I deserve to be nurtured. There is a lot of self-hatred.
I don’t believe I’m entitled to have wants and needs at this point. I do think I am able to get in touch with what feels authentic however.
I also blocked out a lot of my childhood, intentionally (my parents fought a lot and I was an only child so it really got to me). So even getting in touch with my inner child isn’t easy but I can try to give it a shot. I like the idea anyways.
That is actually one thing that has really been bothering me. I don’t understand how one goes from being an innocent little child to something so evil. I don’t understand how it could have gone so horribly wrong and how it all got so messed up.
Thank you again for your thoughtful post. I really appreciate it. It’s a lot to take in and a little overwhelming but I will keep trying to show up and know it could be worth it in the end. Thanks for your encouragement.
It’s hard for me to believe I deserve to have wants but interesting to entertain the idea I guess. Thanks again for your input.

I understand how overwhelming it is. Having self awareness allows you to work on it. It’s like peeling back the layers. When you become aware in something you notice it, and you work on it, and it leads to something else.

As for what I mean about being in touch with that little girl, it’s more like reparenting her. Protecting her. I imagine her and what I would have given her if she had been my child. And I do things specifically for her. It helps because at first things are as you describe- you can’t imagine nurturing yourself. You give it to her for a while. I had a lot of abuse in my childhood. I would picture singing to her or holding her when chaos was too much. It’s a strange exercise and I didn’t do it all the time, but as we started working in my Foo those memories will come up. You comfort the child you were. You tell her she is Ian no ent and deserves more. You tell her you love her.

Getting in touch with our strengths, wants, needs, what we like about ourselves reminds us that we are not all good or bad. Feed the good parts so they are stronger for the looking at the bad parts. You deserve to lead a better life, and you deserve to feel like you walk in the light. That you tell the truth and you live your values and you do things you feel proud of. By building that up, it allows us to say "this thought or behavior doesn’t feel as good as these other things." Or things like "I wish I hadn’t been that insensitive here. What would I do differently the next time." It allows us to feel stronger to apologize, to show up vulnerable and who we are.

By building your good, you will see others good. You will appreciate more. When you respect yourself you can respect others. When you love yourself, you can love others. All our outside relationships are a reflection of our inner relationship.

Knowing what we want, who we want to be, those are things that help us with that identity thing. Start with what you want to give yourself. Time in nature to calm your mind. Time to exercise to help your brain chemistry.

These all seem counterintuitive. But there is a difference between being selfish and having self love. If you can gain a sense of of self, build on the good, you will do good to keep the momentum going. You will feel a purpose behind seeing the pain you inflicted and find ways to make it right. You won’t hide from yourself, and that means you can show up for him.

There is a saying around here "the ws heals the ws, the bs heals the bs, and together they heal the relationship."

Healing is a process of nurturing yourself to be a stronger yet gentler person. And the person you have to start with is yourself.

I understand what you are trying to convey when you talk about having epiphanies about how mall we are and noticing things like defensiveness at work. It’s the process of being mindful. Use that for taking yourself in the right direction.

Maybe write down who you want to be. Mine would have looked like "I want to be a loving, honest, empathetic person. I want to be reliable, emotionally intelligent, etc" start with those kinds of wants. Don’t worry how you will get there. Holding this and then noticing if what you are doing helps you be any of these things.

We can’t change the past, who we were or what we did, but we can change the future. Start clean, start again, give yourself permission to remember and share what you can with your husband because the woman that you are striving to be is one of integrity, one who can put her husband first and show him the love he needs. He loves you or he would not still be there. That’s a seed you can nuture and grow.

Go out and create the life that you want. And through that process you may start to believe you also deserve it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:00 AM, Wednesday, March 19th]

Thank you, that’s a really good idea and you described that very well about way to nurture your inner child.

It is hard for me to see what there is to like about myself when I just keep messing up with my husband. Everything I say and do is wrong. My thoughts aren’t even right.

Every time I try to be vulnerable, I feel like I botch it up and it makes me recoil.

Any time I feel like I’ve upset him again, I panic and then he feels like I’m not allowing him to feel his feelings and he ends up not feeling understood or heard.

How do I start clean if I can’t change the past? I’m sorry, I must seem like I’m full of excuses. I’ll try to re-read what you wrote and take it all to heart and put it into practice as best as I can. Thanks again for your advice. I really appreciate it especially since I wasn’t very receptive at first.

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 1:17 AM, Wednesday, March 19th]