SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I actually have considered it but haven’t done it yet. Thanks so much for your feedback! I hadn’t heard of anyone else having experience with it so I wasn’t sure how effective it would be but I really appreciate that advice.

This morning I told him that it’s possible I was drinking so much that I don’t remember; but before I met him, when I would blackout, I would be aware of it ("oh, I blacked out"). So it’s hard for me to understand why I wouldn’t at least have been aware of blacking out back then if it happened that way. I know it’s selfish to say it’s scary for me to question my reality and feel pressure to create memories out of thin air or have fears of creating false memories. Because I know it’s also scary for him to have his reality shaken. I don’t want to keep destabilizing him with all of this. I want to do the right thing. I’m just struggling to accept all of this as a possibility but I know he is too.

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 11:00 AM, Tuesday, March 25th]

It’s been about 8 years since the start of my affair. So I am not so much different on this timeline.

I can remember what acts occurred or didn’t, but not in order or enough to give a full play by play of what happened first, second, third. I can remember some of the things we said to each other. I do not remember all of it as we had voluminous conversations. Probably I recall the things we said more than once or themes of some of our discussions.

So when you say you don’t remember, what kinds of things are you digging for? I am trying to relate to what you are saying. I did not drink heavily in any of these days we were together, but if you asked for a narrative I could not give you a complete play by play sort of thing.

I mean I remember being fingered. I recently remembered the older man P flashing me. I remembered my shorts being down with J one time because he wanted to see my butt in the mirror while we were making out. I know I recently moved the condoms out of my old purse and into the nightstand but I don’t understand why they were unused and I didn’t throw them away. My husband is convinced I slept with them. I would hope I would remember something like that. I am scared. I don’t want to make things up to appease him. I can see my memory is spotty and choppy.

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 2:29 PM, Tuesday, March 25th]

You passed a poly so it makes sense to me that either you didn’t sleep with them or you don’t remember it.I am not saying it did or didn’t, just saying I am not really questioning it at this point for the sake for these discussions.

However, you see why he doesn’t know what is true or not true- right? Can you put yourself in his shoes? All the smoke and mirrors and things that do not add up to him? This is all caused by years of trickle truth that is traumatizing to him.

That is not to guilt or shame you, I would like you to set that aside for a moment. I want you to focus just in him and what he is feeling. Some of the problem that needs to be resolved to deescalate this is for you to break through that guilt and shame and really identify with where he is and why.

I am not saying don’t try and remember. But recognize that is not going to happen in those stressful moments. Memories may unleash through meditation or other relaxation techniques.

What I am saying is instead of thinking he is punishing you, instead of losing control really try to put yourself in his place. He believes for 11 years he has been lied to. As a result, he is analyzing you from every direction. If you can put yourself in his shoes and recognize it’s normal response, there are things you can do for him in the moment that would still help.

Try identifying with him on a much deeper level. And pehaps see when you say "I would hope I would remember sleeping with them" isn’t a strong statement so every where you are wishy washy smells funny to him.

If he did these things- say he got multiple handjobs by multiple women many years ago. Then he remembered one of them pulled down her pants to help him get more excited. And then he accused you of punishing him when you were hurting, and you were getting a lot of "I didn’t sleep with them, I hope I would remember that"

What would be your reaction?

That all sounds very tough but if you can identify with him, empathize with his pain and confusion, you would stop being defensive and you would be calm enough to anchor him. This is as much of the problem as anything else. Eliminate the problems you can to stabilize the conversation.

Also maybe consider the things that has him puzzled over the truth.

When the ap was in your phone and not blocked, you accused him of doing it. You carried condoms in an old purse for 11 years? It feels like to me the minute I was free of those guys and trying to live in with my life I would have either wanted to destroy evidence or I would have wanted to get rid of anything that reminded me of that time.

I believe it’s possible you didn’t go further with these men. But I also believe that some of these details he is trying to work through such as the condoms and Ap in your phone doesn’t make sense and it’s implausible to me you do not know the answers. I think it’s you know he won’t like those answers.

I don’t even believe the answers to that are bad things. They may have more reasonable explanations. But I know you are afraid of inflaming him with them so you are denying them, throwing them away, turning it back on him.

Just like when we were talking about some of your truth earlier in the thread? All you are concerned with is whether he will accept it. We were talking about needing to feel your feminine allure by the roles you were playing back then. If that’s the truth then be firm in it. This is how you will become reliable saying things despite it being something he will have a bad initial reaction to.

You think the truth will drive him away. You fear losing him more than anything you have ever feared in your life. But what will drive him away is not seeing it from his perspective and not giving him the solid truths you do know.

To me, it’s natural a little that you might have suppressed these memories, it’s not that I don’t believe that. It’s that fear you are in makes you feel unreliable, and then turning his reaction back in him to say "stop punishing me".

You have to find your empathy and courage or you will for sure lose him. This is some tough love, because he has been walking away as slowly as he possibly can. He doesn’t want to leave either. But he is not going to be able to take a lot more of this lack of empathy and transparency. It’s less about whether you slept with them at this point (though if you did of course that matters), it’s the way you are reacting to his trauma and being afraid of what answers you give.

I hope you can see I am telling this to you for YOU. Because I want you to be able to help him and to help both of you move past this, help you restore your sense of worth by making amends, standing in truth, and in the light. I am not trying to hurt you or make this worse. I am just telling you that the way you are looking at all this is what’s in your way.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:04 PM, Tuesday, March 25th]

it’s the way you are reacting to his trauma and being afraid of what answers you give.

So I have never quoted my own self in here but I want to explain this part a little deeper.

The fear you have is what is creating fear in him.

When you are fearful you will lie.

He needs to feel you are solid, and in many ways that would differentiate who you are now versus who you were then. I think he could move past things better if he could start trusting you today.

But that fear make you hide which makes you feel unreliable.

This will not be something you can change overnight but if you see it and work towards it that will feel better to both of you. It will make you able to have more connections on your relationship.

By digging your heels in because you fear the reaction makes you untrustworthy. Even if he has the full truth. Which I believe could be possible.

I am trying to find the words to help you turn that key. And I am sure it feels more like to you I am coming down on you. I am not trying to. I believe you are redeemable and I am trying to help you avoid common pitfalls that will only sabotage your goal of having a happy, healthy loving relationship.

Love is more than a feeling. I believe you feel love for your husband. But it’s also an action, it’s work. And your work is to understand him while trying to understand yourself. Because you need time to do that, the only thing that can help is to learn the ways of making the situation have enough stability that you can unlock the rest.

Yes mam, I can’t thank you enough for helping me see it more clearly from his perspective. Unfortunately I’m at work and that’s why I can’t respond as much as I’d like to right now but I really appreciate everything you’ve taken the time to write. I know it’s hard to tell with me but I’m actually not taking what you said in a harsh way. It makes perfect sense to me. I just want to have time to respond more thoroughly.

Oh of course, I do not expect immediate responses. I am
Just giving you things to think about and when you have you can always ask questions or send back thoughts.

I am at work too. But am in. A crazy slow spell and just have time right now more than usual.

PHMBB, for the entire first year after my wife's betrayal, EVERYTHING was suspicious. If she took too long coming home from work. If she took more than one shower in a day, if she didn't text me back right away, if she was really with the people she said she would be with, if HE was going to be where she was. I wanted to GPS track her car. I wanted access to every account she had. I wanted to read all of her messages and check all of the deleted folders. I just kept looking for ways she could be keeping more of the truth from me. And every day I would read these forums and found a new way to investigate, I would reopen that wound.

For your husband, this wound is VERY fresh, even though the events happened eleven years ago. If you manage to work through this, expect it to be a long, difficult slog. Even if he says otherwise, trust is gone. Demolished. Reduced to ash and cinders. And he may really WANT to trust you, but it isn't as simple as switching on a light. He'll be dealing with internal cognitive dissonance for years, unable to discern between reality and his worst fears and nightmares. There are going to be triggers for a long time, and as HikingOut said, your job is to help him through it. He can come out the other side, and maybe things will even be better in your marriage. But the scar is going to be there forever, and he'll feel it on his soul every day for the rest of his life.

I can post here because I had spent years betraying my wife's trust. While I never cheated on her physically, I would get caught having conversations that crossed boundaries, I would regularly break promises and lie for no good reason at all. I would gaslight the hell out of her (without even doing it intentionally). So once she did this to me, it was a wake up call as to how I had damaged her so much over the years, and it was ONLY that experience that allowed me to see her not as the enemy, but as another flawed person who gave in to their intrusive thoughts.

It's been three years of trying, and it's still hard sometimes. Our relationship is a lot stronger, and we do trust each other more than we did. I know neither of us will ever truly trust the other fully again, which leads to arguments sometimes and accusations of wrongdoings from something small all the way up to accusations of infidelity (despite what we've been through and learned).

You're going to have a rough road ahead of you. If you both make it out, it will still never be the same.

Yes, I can see why he doesn’t know what is true or not true. Thank you for helping me better put myself in his shoes. I can definitely see why things don’t add up to him.
I don’t feel like you are trying to guilt or shame me, but I do feel like me shaming myself is holding me back from being able to face and accept the pain I’ve caused him. It’s true, It is a long period of time to lie to someone when you think about it, especially someone you profess to love more than anyone.
I can see how that would be unnerving if he told me he’d hope he’d remember sleeping with someone. I had thought about the handjob scenario, but not about the part to get someone more excited. That sounds incredibly hurtful when you put it that way. I don’t understand why I am having so much trouble thinking this way on my own and need you to hold my hand. Thanks for that. I feel so dumb.
I guess I would think it was totally ridiculous if he said I was punishing him when he was hurting. At the time it made perfect sense to feel that way. Now, not so much. I guess it all comes back to my fear and control issues.
I want very much to not be defensive. I am doing it before I realize it and then it’s too late. I’m struggling to become more self aware right now for some reason but I don’t know why. I want very badly to be calm enough to anchor him.
I am very confused as to why the AP number was not blocked because the reason I blocked it years ago was because I was afraid of him blowing the lid off this whole thing if he ever contacted me again. I guess it’s beside the point because what matters is how it makes him feel. I just don’t see how can I fix it if I don’t understand how it got unblocked in the first place. I am struggling with going in these circles that I don’t have answers for.
I did destroy a lot of evidence (i.e. text messages). To me the condoms were just some kind of strange oversight since I didn’t use them and thought they were irrelevant. Once I found them, I panicked and went back into my old mode of naturally moving them out of my purse. I don’t understand why I put them them back in the nightstand and not in the trash.
I don’t know myself, so I don’t know why I did these things. I feel like it’s a million reasons.
I see what you’re saying. The fear is so innate, it is so hard to know how to stop.
The empathy I hope I can do with enough practice. The brain patterns are so difficult to change but I’ll try to have more courage. I know you want to help us and I appreciate that very much. I know you don’t want to hurt me. I want to learn how to look at it in the right way.
It’s the declarative statements that really scare me the most. I know you are just trying to give me a wake up call.
Thank you for explaining that to me in more detail. It was a huge help. Now if I can just get it to stick in my brain, maybe if I read it or write it over and over again.
I see what you’re saying. It doesn’t feel so much like you’re coming down on me as I’m so afraid the more he hears people talking badly about me and about how we’re not going to make it, I’m afraid of it coming to fruition. But I guess the fear isn’t doing me any good. Thanks again for all your time and patience.

Icedover84,
Over the last year, I have given him access to my phone, iPad, passwords, location tracking, etc.
The other day he came to go through my car while I was at work and I didn’t get mad. I actually understood where he was coming from because I used to get really scared of his ex girlfriend’s trying to contact him when we first met and I would constantly go through his phone and computer. My suspicions were unfounded; his are justified. I just mean I can relate to the fear and panic part of it.
I want to work through this more than anything. I know it’s difficult. I want to help him through to the other side. I love our life together, even when it’s hard. I don’t know if it’s fair to ask him to go through with this but I don’t think it would be kind to leave him abandoned to pick up the pieces either.
Yes, him not believing me now that I’m telling the truth after I’ve lied for so long has given me an idea of what it’s like to feel gaslit. I’m not saying he’s gaslighting me! I know that he’s not. It’s just the only way I know how to relate. I understand why he doesn’t believe me.
I really admire you for working it out. Thanks for sharing your experience. I also appreciate your honesty. That’s really encouraging that your relationship is stronger and you trust each other more than before. I’m sure the idea of that is hard for him to imagine. I know it won’t be the same but I don’t care. He’ll still be the same person I love. I just can’t picture my life without him and don’t even want to try to do that. I do want what’s best for him but I don’t think me saying, "see ya bye!" Is the way to do that. He’ll just feel like I skipped out on him the moment it wasn’t easy anymore.

It takes time to work on patterns that are engrained.

I would not worry so much about the forum commentary. I see your husband is going to think for himself and certain things he isn’t going to let stick. He has said he is going to give you time to anyone who suggests otherwise. Anonymous strangers are not as powerful as the love he does feel for you.

Don’t feel dumb. I wish you could see my posts when I got here and all the tough love (and worse) messages. But it did wake me up. And because it did I started doing better and better. And you will too.

Someone once wrote that I was the foggiest ws who ever came on this site and he was surprised that I hadn’t walked off a cliff.

The situation you are in is difficult. Once you really start understanding him and not fearing it means he doesn’t love you or that he is leaving…then you will naturally be that a better at that for him.

I have to say sometimes you already are- I thought your answer about divorce the other day was a good one. You stood your ground and told him what you want. That was natural to you. You just have to keep building on that.

I think of this situation can relax, you can keep studying these concepts that you are striving for and then you can practice them. Failure is part of the process, even though we wish it wasn’t or that we could avoid it somehow.

Detach a bit from the outcome. Get comfortable with the idea that if the marriage ended, you would grieve it but still be able to heal. Not because I think you are or should get a divorce. In fact, I have my fingers crossed for you both that doesn’t happen and that you two can learn how to heal together. But the reason I am saying that is divorce is your worst outcome, your biggest fear. You have to sometimes be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And your grip is super tight, that’s why I know you want this. That’s why I believe in you.

Trying to control the outcome is natural in your position, I have been there and it’s hard to let go of those reigns. I in no way wanted a divorce.

But when you instead start being your authentic self, and let your guard down and think of him as a friend telling you what happened to him by the hands of someone else. Try to be objective in what he is saying. Take yourself out of it. Then you will be able to be curious like you are with a girlfriend. You will start asking good questions.

How did that make you feel?

And by letting his experience into your heart, you will feel the remorse instead of the guilt and shame and you will learn to comfort him.

"I am sorry I put you through that."" I want to make it up to you." "If I had a Time Machine I would go back and make this never occur. Short of that what are things that I can do to help you?" Those sort of things. And I think that you do this sometimes already because in your earlier post you mentioned that you said "would it make you feel better if I could figure out why I did these things?" (I quoted you but it’s not a direct quote.)

This man would be your best friend, find ways to work through that angst so you can sit and actively listen, ask questions. I think if you did that it would eventually lead the two of you to begin strategizing together how to navigate making this a process gentler for each of you.

Foster working together. Try and detach from the outcome, encourage his openness, work on engaging him in discussions.

You can do this!!!

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:53 PM, Tuesday, March 25th]