SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Affair life is life inside a bubble, an escape from real world problems that the WS refuses to confront. So, what happens when that bubble burst and then the shit hits the fan. When I found out my life changed completely in an instant and have never felt so lost and alone than I did at that moment. I would not wish this kind of pain and despair on my worst enemy. Do the unfaithful ever really see or understand what they have done to someone they say they love? After the fog wears off and their eyes are wide open do they see and feel our pain? I really don't think anyone could understand the pain of infidelity unless they have experienced it firsthand. Infidelity is now part of my life's journey, I have been bruised but I am not beaten. I sometimes wish that the spouses who are contemplating being unfaithful could feel our pain for one minute prior to crossing that bridge. Most will still cheat regardless but I imagine a lot would turn and run away and never look back. It is a pain like no other!!

I'm sure those WS who have an empathy chip do feel the pain. Not at the same level a BS experiences it though. I know there are some here who believe the pain for a WS is worse but I am not in that camp. Infidelity literally made me mentally ill for years. Gave me c-ptsd and STDs. My xWS is diagnosed NPD. I actually believe he's a sociopath too. When I was at my worst points he left me to deal with it. I had to carry my bag of pain and the pain of him not having any empathy for me.

Do the unfaithful ever really see or understand what they have done to someone they say they love?

A precious few do. Most don’t, by far. Think about it: by definition, betraying/adulterous people have proven themselves to be incredibly selfish, entitled, and un-empathetic individuals. The exact opposite of these traits are the very thing needed to "understand what they have done", at least so far as to how it has impacted the betrayed. Sure, plenty of betrayers don’t like the consequences THEY themselves receive after their evil deeds have been exposed, and therefore they exhibit "regret". Tragically, so many betrayed mistake regret for true remorse, where remorse has its focus & full empathy on the *betrayed* and not merely on themselves.

You can’t force your betrayer there. You can’t change them at all. You can’t even lead them to true remorse. It’s something that must well up in themselves for there to be any chance of it being real. And what truly sucks, is that the betrayed must at times wait YEARS to see if true remorse ever comes. And so many times, it doesn’t, meaning the betrayed just waisted even more years on their betrayer. Years they’ll never get back.

At best, reconciliation is a big gamble, and one with low odds of true success. Yes, it has happened, as some here will attest to. Doesn’t mean that’s common in any way.

[This message edited by gr8ful at 5:40 PM, Wednesday, December 11th]

I sometimes wish that the spouses who are contemplating being unfaithful could feel our pain for one minute prior to crossing that bridge.

Many betrayeds here at SI will share that the cheating spouse was once the betrayed spouse.
So the cheaters (who were once a BS) know the pain and devastation but chose to do it anyway.

Shaking my damn head (SMDH)

I think it is different depending on the WS. For my WS I think he can now see and understand the pain he caused but I don’t think he will ever ‘feel’ it.

Since starting to work on himself, it’s is obvious, my WH doesn’t love the same way I do. Not even close. He knows it and hates it but it is what it is. He was selfish, arrogant, lazy, conflict avoidant, and a very poor communicator. Sometimes I wonder if he ever really felt any emotions at all.

But it would seem that after seeing his wife (aka me 😂) many times cry hysterically naked on a shower floor, punch and throw things and say the nastiest things to him, I think he finally saw the pain I was in and that he caused. And I think he actually felt scared for the fist time in his life, because he came very close (still a possibility) of losing everything he ever wanted in life.

I think everyone experiences pain differently. Speaking from my personal experience (maybe mine might be more of a "one off") … what I’ve witnessed from my WH, I truly believe he is currently and will continue to "suffer" far worse than I ever will from all of this. I can physically see the pain in his eyes when he tears up looking at me/his children (knowing that he risked losing us/knowing that he still might) and I can hear his pain through our multitude of conversations over the past 14 months. I’ve never seen him so "emotionally distraught" in my life (I guess same would go for him to me). I believe he really didn’t think and/or expect that what he had done would pour into every crevice of his life the way it has. Literally, everything he worked so hard for his whole life, HE shattered within seconds. While he could never fully understand the pain he’s put me through, what he’s done to himself is by far the worse pain he will ever have to experience.

I don’t think my husband fully understands my pain because he hasn’t lived it, but he’s more in the camp of heartbroken wife’s husband. His affair caused him a LOT of pain and trauma too. It’s different than mine, but deep regret, true remorse, and clear-eyed living with how your terrible choices affected and wrecked so many things you valued can be incredibly painful. I think many people aren’t willing or capable of being cleareyed in that way, but for the ones that are, it’s very, very painful. As awful as this all has been, I’d rather be in my position than my husband’s. I think.

I don’t know though; it all sucks.

There have been plenty of posters on this forum reporting on WS having suicidal thoughts, and a few on WS killing themselves.

I think everyone experiences pain differently.

Absolutely. My bet is that we BSes don't even know each other's pain - all we know is that we each of us is IN pain.

Speaking from my personal experience (maybe mine might be more of a "one off") … what I’ve witnessed from my WH, I truly believe he is currently and will continue to "suffer" far worse than I ever will from all of this.

Not a one-off. IMO, many WSes enter an A as a way of avoiding pain, if only to avoid the pain of saying 'no' to the ap. After the A, a remorseful WS needs to deal with the pre-A pain, the A pain of knowing they're doing something very hurtful, and the post-A pain.

But I go further and state that, IMO, any WS who feels a need for external validation and any WS who is co-d probably experienced pain in their life that they don't want to deal with. Instead, they live moment to moment, doing anything they can think of to avoid dealing with that pain - and adding to their own and to other people's pain.

I guess I'd like to have avoided infidelity, but since I couldn't, I am confident my recovery was easier than my W's. Hell, she still feels shame when triggered. I don't.

I'll be interested in reading testimony of WSes.

I think many WS have betrayed not only their SOs; they have betrayed themselves.

And I think some of them feel that very deeply.

Our pain? Sometimes. Sometimes not.

That said, much like alcohol or narcotics, infidelity is often a cope for dealing with internal pain that the wayward feels. So they seek external validation, culminating in them seeking intimacy outside the confines of their current relationship.This is not an attempt to excuse waywards, rather it is an attempt to understand what is happening.

That said, the brokenness of the wayward is actually more reason to dispense with their presence in your life rather than a reason to find a way to make it work. Most people do nothing more than lip service when it comes to making themselves a safe partner. Even smaller are the number of folks who legitimately seek out self improvement. The number of people that TRULY change are damn near unicorns. There are a few on this site.

Hurt people hurt people. That will never change.

Do the unfaithful ever really see or understand what they have done to someone they say they love? After the fog wears off and their eyes are wide open do they see and feel our pain? 

To varying degrees they can. My first wife had a very low EQ and apparent severely diminished capacity for empathy. Others have high EQ's and a healthy capacity for empathy but short circuit that capacity through cognative dissonance (still struggle with this concept but am prepared to give it mental assent after going over my thread on this subject) and the "affair fog" (see prior comment). The very very tough thing is that when certain WS's with otherwise strong EQ's including empathy do feel that empathetic pain after the analgesic effect of the affair wears off, it completely overloads their emotional circuits. I lost a good friend due to this and there are examples of complete breakdowns on the part of the WS when faced with the destruction and pain they have unleashed on their faithful spouse and family.

So, just as with the rest of life, somewhere between the stone cold heart of a psychopathic marital traitor to the otherwise extremely empathetic WS, the capacity to share in the pain of the betrayed runs the gamut. Sadly, for me, my first wife lived in a empathic deficit.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 5:27 PM, Thursday, December 12th]

No not my wife.
My wife has no empathy and the few times I have tried to explain any form of pain even after 24 years out comes the anger and the blame shifting.

After 3.5 years of false R, no, they don't feel our pain. He lashes out at me for *daring* to show my pain. He will never change because he doesn't want to change. Our kids are in high school and this is the worst. He had the audacity to tell me that I need to prove to him that I'm all in on the marriage else we're done when the youngest graduates high school. It's bonkers how distorted the thinking is with a WS. FML.

I agree that it is hard, neigh impossible, for a WS to understand or feel their BS's pain. Period. It is a highly individual and I think even two different BS have different levels and forms of said pain.

I talked with my W for years to give her an understanding of my pain on a logical level. The emotional understanding part stops at some point. Only the specific BS in any given post Dday situation is going to react based on a lot of different variables specific to one individual. This is where IC can be invaluable. I don't know about anyone else, but hell, I could barely understand what I was feeling. Much less explain it to my wife in a way she would understand let alone feel.

I think most "normal" BS and WS experience pain. I've been there. Not able to get out of bed, crying in the car, being extra angry for no reason, etc.

My W has pain too and I am not going to try to say who had it worse. Different pain, for different reasons is still pain.

I am a ways out and bought my IC several vacation homes. . .so I guess I am somewhat healed. I get triggers, but they pass quickly now. I can look back and remember the pain, but I also know that I did not cause it. I can look back at my actions the past few years and feel a "survivors" type of pride. It reminds me I can handle almost anything. Further I showed grace to someone who did not deserve it. Don't let anyone tell you that grace is weak or easy. I had to find a lot of strength to take that road. It was easily the hardest thing I've ever done.

My wife? She can see positives, but those are offset by having to accept responsibility for making the choices in the first place. It will always be her greatest regret and Achilles heal. Her insecurities that played a part in the A are now worse. She panics every time there is even a chance that I might question her about something pointing to lies big or small. She can't really talk about telling the truth anymore without wincing. She can't watch certain shows, etc. She doesn't think about her A everyday, but she brings it up a lot more than me. She has constant fears I will D her for trivial reasons. No, not near as soul crushing as what I went through, but it sounds like a metaphorical prison to me. When I began to feel healed she was relived and sad. The fact that I had to heal due to her is heartbreaking for her still.

Honestly if I had a choice I would still choose neither being a BS or WS. I would be one of those people that don't react to infidelity like my W and I do. Alas it has given me perspective to appreciate some things in a way I never would have under different circumstances. Sweet things taste sweet because we know what sour tastes like. KWIM?

So sorry to hear ShatteredJam. I pray things improve for you.

Hell, she still feels shame when triggered. I don't.

I think many WS have betrayed not only their SOs; they have betrayed themselves.

And I think some of them feel that very deeply.

These two things sum up how I feel about this.

Having an affair was by far the worst thing I have done to another person, and the worst thing I have done to myself.

Do I feel his pain? No, I think I understand his pain the best I am able to. I will carry guilt for the rest of my life over it.

Over time I have learned to try and counterbalance that with some self-compassion to the extent that I have done the things I can to bring as close amends as I can. I have learned countless lessons, worked hard to be more self aware.

I don’t think I lack the empathy gene, but I do think when one is depressed and no longer cares about themselves, their life, etc it’s hard to feel anything empathetic towards others. I believe that our relationship with ourselves is reflected back at all times.

The best I could do after all that was work tirelessly on new coping skills which is the foundation of healing from other ways people cope poorly- whether it’s alcoholism, drugs, other addictions, escapism has always been my go to with everything- ignore and avoid. I just didn’t need a bottle, a pill, powder, etc to do it.

Nothing will take away the pain we have both been through but it’s certainly lessened. I say this as someone who is married to a madhatter, and still I can’t compare the pain I felt in that to his because it’s impossible and not productive. But the damage is not at all lost on me either.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:25 PM, Thursday, December 12th]

Hiking out, I do think depression can impact clarity, empathy and the strength to hold onto one’s values when they’re tested. I think this was part of what was going on with my husband when he had an affair. Caring for his dying sibling was brutal, and he was depressed and having all sorts of midlife crisis-y feelings about death and the shortness of life. He also lacked solid boundaries; something neither of us was really attuned to because he’s a reserved guy whose personality and lifestyle don’t typically lead him into situations where boundaries are tested. So, when his married coworker confessed her undying love to him after they worked closely on a project and traveled together, he was in a weak place and followed his feelings, making excuses to himself all the way.

Possible T/J -

Shirley Glass states that As happen in good Ms when the WS has poor boundaries. IMO, depression can enable a person to do things they wouldn't normally do.

Cheating by a depressed person may make it easier to forgive that person, if the WS gets effective treatment, but an explanation of why the WS cheated does virtually nothing to mitigate the BS's pain. The BS still has to resolve the awful grief, anger, fear, shame, whatever that comes with being betrayed.

IOW, my reco is: do not let compassion for your WS take away any compassion for yourself.

I did that, and it did not work well. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:00 PM, Saturday, December 14th]

I think part of the reason I’m on a longer healing arc is precisely because I didn’t have enough compassion for or room to focus on myself the first year+ of the process. I was trying to support my husband, children, and mother in law through the pain and grief of losing a beloved family member, we were building a garage apartment and moving my mother in law in, it was the height of Covid and my job was insane, I was incredibly worried about my husband’s mental health, which was in the toilet, and I was pick-me dancing for all I was worth, even though he had already picked me (🤦‍♀️). I used to kick myself so hard for not doing things differently, but nowadays my compassion for myself consists of looking back at that time and giving myself grace for not knowing how to handle things better.

I think this is also why I still have a lot of empathy for newly betrayeds. Sometimes life and circumstances beyond the betrayal are so much that it’s hard to figure out what putting on an oxygen mask even looks like.