SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry you are going thru this. It is very tough. Stay strong and sane.

Before deciding on whether you want to give your marriage a chance, you need to know everything. You need to know your wife and how she thinks. She must be really stupid or brave or careless or all of them to betray you in your own house and with a friend.

Ask yourself what she would do if she felt she wouldn't get caught. How many times? how many other affairs? how many other dudes? ... all legit questions imo.

You must've felt something all those years but you ignored it. No?

1) you need a full confession. You decide if she is being 100% honest based on polygraph, gut feeling etc...

2) you need her to explain WHY. Does she love him? when did she lose respect for you? is she a serial cheater? does she have PD of some sort? you decide whether to accept it.

3) sincerely apologize. You decide if it is sincere or not.

4) Promise it won't happen again. Again, up to you to believe it.

It's very hard. Good luck.

[This message edited by techie49 at 2:43 PM, Wednesday, September 18th]

While couples therapy may be helpful, what would be more helpful is if you get your own counselor and individual support.

There may be things you want to say that you may not say in CT due to your fear of detailing any progress.

I can only say that my therapist not only saved my sanity b/c I was EXACTLY YOU for 6 months - couldn’t eat or sleep, had to deal with a very very toxic work environment and had kids I had to show up for everyday. In addition to being kicked to the curb and watching my H flaunt his affair in my face.

My point is when I really wanted to D my therapist helped me to release my anger and see my H may deserve a second chance. But had I not had a place to unleash my emotions and anger freely, who knows what the outcome would have been.

I hope this helps you.

Please take fear of the unknown out of your equation. I’m going to be vague here, but I know a couple where he had a wife with many, many issues and finally had to divorce her to stay sane. He did not look at older women or younger women, or in between he looked at all of them. As it turned out the woman he finally married had children of her own and was a divorcee. She was not the cause of the divorce and neither was he and that makes a big difference when you are looking for someone in the future. Both he and his wife had been on social media, gotten off, dated around, and finally found each other by happenstance. They are very happily married , and he will say that this is the marriage he should’ve been all of his life. I’m not pressuring you or even suggesting that you get out of your marriage because that’s too personal but I will say that you need to look at two things. First is sunk cost. Bs say I’ve been in this for so long, I hate to give it up or I’ve put too much money into my house or our business or whatever. That cost keeps people imprisoned in relationships they should not be in anymore. The second is whether you can ever get past it. There are many bs on here who have forgiven egregious behaviors and are still with their ws. And a third…50 is the beginning. People I know live long active lives well into their 80s and 90s. That means if you look after your health you have years of enjoyment in your future. Don’t let sadness rob you of that.
This is my mantra. Look after your health. Here is when you need to consult a dr about anxiety and situational depression. Both are dangerous. Anxiety makes your body think it is being attacked and you never relax. You are always looking for that "lion" that will attack you. That is what your primitive brain is doing. It is not rational. It just knows you have been injured and keeps wanting to get you out of danger. You might need help calming that down. Depression stops you from making any decisions. It paralyzes you.
Get outside. Walk, run, bike, skate, sing, play a musical instrument, spend time with friends, garden, play pickle ball, get sun on your face. Do something. The hormones driving your body into exhaustion can be shut down by being physical.

Absolutely OUTSTANDING reply from Butforthegrace! OP, please read his post about 10 times.

I also can’t get over the fear of being 50 and alone. I don’t want to be alone the rest of my life.

Oh my dear goodness dude. You have no idea. Single 50 yr old men who even remotely have their 💩 together have to beat women off with a stick. I’ve seen it even in men who look like they’ve been pummeled by the ugly stick. Asked one how it was going with the lady folk, and his sheepish grin said it all. You’re in hell right now, but DO NOT let this particular fear take hold. The exact opposite is true.

On the other hand, a divorced adulteress woman over 50? SHE’s the one who ought be VERY afraid. And no doubt, she is. She knows her "market value" is now crap. THAT is why she is in full CYA mode. THIS IS NOT REMORSE!!!

Keep posting! The more you do, the more we can help. Stay strong bro!

I can tell my wife is truly remorseful.

I won’t belabor this as BFTG and other poster nailed it, but will reinforce that,

"True Remorse" is manifest in the form of consistent and progressively improving actions over time.

There’s a learning curve for WS’s, and a truly remorseful WS should be continuously improving their approach with empathy, therapy, and learning from their mistakes and overcoming setbacks.

Other posters have also given some excellent examples of Remorse vs Regret.

The fear of being alone at 50

I was 49 when I discovered my WW’s affair, 23 years into, what I thought, was an ideal marriage, lifestyle, social circle, romance, affection, intimacy, best friends, mutual adventures, mutual dreams, and the accomplishment of personal and mutual dreams. We had three happy teens/preteens. Our lives were absolutely commingled. The affair was an absolute blindside. No warning signs, no rug swept grievances, no neglect, not even in honest objective hindsight.

We divorced after failed R after about 18 months.

I too was fearful of starting over after 50. It’s debilitating fear. So much invested, so much at stake. A clear perspective was clouded by overwhelming grief. This site helped me maintain perspective.

Fortunately for you, your kids are older and through the majority of their formative years. Coparenting will be much easier. It will be much easier for you to transition to the next phase of your life.

The reality for me was, that there was a better future out there for me. There was no shortage of wonderful, intriguing prospects and opportunities that I could have never imagined, and only became clear after my first baby steps forward.

There was a period where I was alone, for the first time in 25 years, I was alone to indulge in myself, my interests, my healing. It was amazing and cathartic.

There was a period of reckless dating (Be careful with this, it’s the Wild West out there).

Then there was a period where I travelled and met beautiful people and had various adventures and experiences.

And then a period of careful dating.

Then I met my now wife, and so far, so excellent.

I look back on the first marriage, not with regret, but with reverence, as it was very good while it lasted, with great memories and the birth of our kids. And now, I’m/we’re off to new adventures that are just as special.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:52 PM, Wednesday, September 18th]

^^^^^ Yes, gr8ful (and @RealityBlows, we cross-posted) is right on the money here. Truth!

I think @butforthegrace--somewhere towards the bottom on the previous page--is right on the money as well.

OP, you got to remember this: just as YOU were doubly betrayed (your WW cheated on you AND the person she cheated with on you was a close trusted friend), **your WW herself, doubly betrayed**. She not only disregarded YOU in her decision-making but she also disregarded someone else--OBS--who viewed your WW as a close trusted friend.

What's this you say? WW was told that AP and OBS had an open marriage? (ETA: To be clear, OP has NOT said this in his thread so far, I am saying this, just in case that WW in discussing her affair, tells OP that POSOM had told her that POSOM and OBS had an open marriage, as a way of WW trying to mitigate her betrayal to OBS as well.) Sure adds to the whole premeditation aspect doesn't it. Your WW (and your ex-friend) doing you dirty like that--instead of getting carried away in a moment of passion (which is still absolutely awful especially witnessing it), boy I bet you never thought she (and he) had it in her (in him) did you.

Meanwhile, I would be VERY careful saying that your WW is remorseful. Right now her tears are (probably) mostly for HER. If you and she D, your WW is quite aware that her dating and social life likely will be very difficult.

Anyways, CT (couples therapy) such as MC (marriage counseling) is a waste of time. There was NOTHING about how the two of you related that made her betray NOT ONLY you but also your SON and DAUGHTER, and HER CLOSE FRIEND. For your WW to ever be a safe partner she needs to dig deep into her whys for giving herself permission to do these things.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:21 PM, Wednesday, September 18th]

And again....OP, are you POSITIVE that this is WW's only affair? Because I sure as hell would not be!

@Won’tbefooledagain- zero open marriage on either side. I can assure you. He has been very open with his wife about everything. He is completely defeated from what she says. She believes him. I have my doubts, but it’s not my place to tell her what to believe, or how to move forward.

Zero reason for marriage counseling at this time. Zero.

You need Individual Counseling with a speciality in trauma.

She could probably also use IC, assuming she is being truthful about remorse, healing you and fixing herself.

Also, see a lawyer. It can't hurt to understand what your options look like.

We are both in IC. Mine specializes in grief/trauma/PTSD. I asked her what she thought about MC. She said I should try it, but not to be afraid to stop if I did not like the therapist, or did not feel it was working at this time. I appreciate all of your feedback, but I will follow her advice on this one.

Unthought,

Not the same situation but my EW had her AP in my home. The whole place was an instant trigger for me!

I ended up trashing/giving away the entire household furniture because I didn't know what they had "touched".

May consider the same for your basement as I bet it's may be a constant reminder for you.

I suggest you read the following posts:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/586809/beyond-regret-and-remorse/ - an excellent view of the behavior of a remorseful WS (though the author prefers 'contrite' to 'remorseful').

https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/ - an excellent outline of what to expect from your WS

https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/497843/fear-vs-reality/ - self explanatory, I think.

*****

A lot of posts in this thread are about what the posters think they would do in your sitch. I hope that helps you make your own decision.

I believe it would be very difficult to R with a double betrayal and actually seeing the infidelity. But you have to make decisions for your future, and though the past impacts the future, your past leaves you with options.

You can lead a joyful life whether you D or R. If you want to R and if your W is, in fact, remorseful, and if you're both willing to do the necessary work, my reco is: don't let fear keep you from it. And don't let fear keep you from D, either.

You have to blaze your own trail through this horror. Take all advice with many grains of salt.

There’s a ton of disrespect here for WW to be screwing OM in BH’s house while both BH and their son were in the house. The fact that WW was willing to do so, even if she was drunk, suggests a long time affair IMO.

Just something I want to reiterate to you. It’s been said here already but I’m going to chime in and agree.

DO NOT make decisions on fear of being alone. Really man. If you are not a crazed alcoholic or drug user and have a decent career, you are not going to be able to catch all the panties flying at you. (To be as crass as possible) 50 years old and have your shit together? You really need to understand just how many divorced women are desperately looking for that. You’ll only be alone for just as long as you choose to be.

[This message edited by OhItsYou at 9:06 PM, Thursday, September 19th]

There’s a ton of disrespect here for WW to be screwing OM in BH’s house while both BH and their son were in the house. The fact that WW was willing to do so, even if she was drunk, suggests a long time affair IMO.

Yes, either that, or it is not WW's first rodeo, so to speak. Anyway OP you in all likelihood do NOT have the full story, either in regards to WW's affair with your (former) friend, or WW having had another affair, or possibly even both.

75 thanks for the updates

I think you've been getting very good advice and in particular, I would urge you to reread Stevesn's comments several times.

I've previously stated my concerns about starting MC at this point however I agree with what your IC has has told you.

She said I should try it, but not to be afraid to stop if I did not like the therapist, or did not feel it was working at this time.

My biggest concern is that many MC's will attempt to spread blame between the two of you. When it comes to the A, the blame is entirely 100% hers. You should not allow any suggestion that anything you did or didn't do had anything to do with causing her A. If you use MC as a safe, less threatening space for the two of you to discuss her A, it may very well encourage WW to be more open and truthful regarding the lead up and extent of the A and allow both of you to express your current feelings about the viability of your marriage.

You stated your intent to talk to your son this Saturday and keep it as vague as possible. I agree that discussing in detail what happened could be very traumatizing to him and his relationship with his mother. However, I strongly believe that you should make it clear whose fault it is that this crisis has occurred. Not just that the two of you are having difficulties but that his mother has done something wrong and that you are having difficulty forgiving her. Be sure to stress how much the both of you love him and that will never change. Let him know that this is something you and WW need to work out between the two of you.

If you don't make it clear that this was something WW did to cause the crisis then you being angry and WW crying all the time may lead him to believe that it was something you did to cause this.It should be very clear that WW is the one who is at fault here. Her accepting blame should be one of the consequences of her actions.

This is incredibly important

Not just that the two of you are having difficulties but that his mother has done something wrong and that you are having difficulty forgiving her

Unfortunately the man is always assumed to have been the perpetrator without clear information to the contrary. Sucks but IMO there is a societal bias that women are inherently good and men inherently bad. That’s the default starting point. Just think of your initial reaction to seeing a clearly angry man talking loudly at a crying woman….. strangers that you don’t know….

Ugh- I completely understand where you are coming from by suggesting I tell my son that this was something his mother did and I am having difficulty forgiving her. I want to, but this is very hard. I agree I should not get the brunt of this in anyway. He is a smart and intuitive kid- it’s won’t be hard for him to connect the dots, and then tell my daughter away at college. Such a fucking shit show because of her fucking decisions!!! I need my kids protected as much as possible. I’m so fucking pissed. Their decisions hurt so many people.

Late to this party...

I want to address a couple of points – and I am addressing them from MY point-of-view based both on personal experience and what I have learned over the years on this site.

First of all: Was witnessing them having sex worse than maybe learning about it some other way?
I walked in on my then-fiancé having sex with another man. Although not in any way a "good" experience, in retrospect it beats whatever I could imagine had I learned of it some other way. My imagination can visualize her having tantric, porn-star level, groaning and moaning, all-the-best-pages-of-the-Kama Sutra-style sex with a man hung like a horse, the tongue of a calf and the stamina of a Viagra-maxed porn-star. Instead, I saw two people grunting and humping.
What was happening happened. It wouldn’t really be less painful hadn’t you witnessed it, but having witnessed it might give you – in the long run – a better possibility to deal with it, accept and move on (move on as in learn to live with the reality of what happened, not move on and rug-sweep).

I don’t see that you witnessed it as some "ultimate disrespect". She never intended you to witness it – she wasn’t playing some cuckold-fetish-fantasy. You simply happened to witness it.

Yes – there is undeniably a level of thoughtlessness – even disrespect – at having sex with a close friend of yours in your house. In my experience the issue was not really that OM was in my home and in my bed. The real issue was that OM was in my fiancé.

Location certainly adds a new twist to triggers... I had to deal with serious triggers for quite some time after d-day, but when I finally had the sense of seeking professional help for PTSD part of that treatment was how to handle triggers. I guess the basement, the couch they were on (or whatever furniture) and all that can trigger you, but that is something that can be dealt with in so many ways. Key issue is that IF it’s a problem you deal with it.

I’m not making light of any of your issues. Believe me – I know you have a boatload. But I don’t see any profit whatsoever in making them worse, especially based on what WE think or on OUR moral yardstick. The Stoics said something along the lines of "a man can be as equally drowned in one inch of water as in ten feet of water". Your one-inch of issues is bad and deadly enough, without us pouring some more water on you.

Second: I would wait with sharing what happened with your son.
I am NOT much for hiding infidelity, and IF this ends in divorce OR if the affair was ongoing I would wholeheartedly recommend letting all stakeholders know in an age-appropriate way. But for now I would hold back on telling you son more than mom and dad are having issues, but that they are MARRIAGE issues right now more than family issues. That the two of you will find some resolution and will update him as necessary as far as they relate to family.
Frankly – I suspect some are suggesting you tell your son the truth more as a form to get revenge or payback for the betrayal of your wife. I’m big on honesty and truth, not so much on revenge. Nor am I big on dragging others in what really isn’t their war to fight.
I remember Dr. Phil once sharing how he and his wife had been arguing, and then one of his sons got short with Mrs. Phil. Dr. Phil took him aside and warned him that a) he never talk to his mom that way and b) he never talk to Phils WIFE that way. Keep in mind that even if this is a betrayal to you that can have permanent impact on the family, then she is his mom, and at the moment your wife.

Third: Be very clear that neither you nor your wife have any obligation to reconcile. You are in this marriage by your OWN choice. You can argue about how much D would cost, splitting the family and all that, but that’s just excuses and terrible reasons to remain married. If you want out – get out.
Same applies to your wife. You can – and should – remind her that she CAN leave for OM, and if he doesn’t want her, she can leave to find whatever was missing that she found with OM. She has NO obligation to be with you, and that if she choses to remain in this marriage it will require tremendous hard work. Work that she is committing to by remaining.

Seriously: It would be idiotic not to give divorce a very serious consideration. To the level of consulting an attorney to fully understand where you might be 12 months from now if you go that route. I fear too many claim they are "trapped" in their marriage because of [place any excuse you can imagine here like losing pension, paying alimony, splitting the family, cant afford living alone...] because they believe the mathematical enigma of divorce: Neither party get’s a fair share. In total 100% honesty I can confirm to you right now that if you are emotionally OK with divorce, you will be fine in about 24 months from filing. However – life is so much more than a financial equation, so the emotional acceptance has to be there.
Not telling you to divorce, but don’t remain in the marriage under the belief you can’t divorce. If you reconcile, it’s solely because both of you want this marriage.

Fourth: Carrying on from the divorce thoughts... This is possibly going to require a lot of life-changes anyways... Those friends are out of your life. Forever. Not for a year or two, but forever. You won’t be sending his widow a card in 30 years time, nor will you two be friends on social media. It’s a clean cut. Your basement and triggers might lead to a change in residence... Seeing as jr is 15 then maybe that was already on the 10-year schedule. Might have to speed that up, depending on if you two are married or not and if jr goes to college or whatever. Or... you manage your triggers.

Fifth and final: I am a big believer in the truth. I do think you need to know if this is the second or the gazumptionth time this happened. Was it limited to the visits, or did they meet at other times. I think that if you are left with doubts and questions on key issues then those doubts can only fester over time.
I think that getting the truth is a bit like tearing the band-aid off in one go. If you can then offer her an amnesty. If she tells you NOW and answers your questions for the next week so that you can get a sense of understanding the scope of the issue... you commit to not divorcing for the next 90 days.
Personally I would limit the questions to factual ones like: Who initiated, when did it start, how did it start, how often, did they plan, did they meet in-between visits etc. You can also clarify issues like had she had other affairs. I would omit questions on body-comparison and romantic emotions because they can seldom be answered in any constructive way.
Your 90 day commitment is only worth what you put into it. If she were to share they met every Thursday because on Wednesday’s she was doing the pool-guy... you can start packing if you are so inclined. Whatever she shares might make you leave, but whatever you discover maybe 6 months from now definitely will make you leave (thanks Sisoon!).

A key element for this honesty is her understanding that trust is shattered, and that you have reason to doubt the whole past. By being open and honest she is showing you that she trusts you with the truth, and that if you can verify that truth then it creates a base for you to reestablish trust towards her. Ask her how she thinks your marriage can ever become whole again if you don’t have that base.

I think there are different types of cheating.

Those who introduce their sexual partner to their family and allow them to attend social events are absolute trash.

Being comfortable enough to have sex while your children, you and her partner's wife are sleeping a few meters away is beyond what I call garbage.

Your wife lost weight, she was regretful, miserable, etc. These are nonsense, you caught them, your wife was being raped?, she was a willing participant, wasn't she?!! She was enjoying every moment of it and if she hadn't been caught, they would have smiled at you in the morning and said they had a great time.

I believe that this is not the first time your wife has cheated and that the time you spent with her current partner until she was caught/they had an intense sexual relationship assuming they met outside,

Don't cling to the past and dream of the future, offer a polygraph.

Say that you want to ask how many people your wife cheated on you with, how many contacts she had with her partner after she was caught, etc.

Do not be ashamed to disclose the relationship, those in your social circle should know about it, and do not ignore the possibility of having an affair with other spouses. Disclosure is important.

Continue therapy and consult with a lawyer to take steps towards divorce.