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Reconciliation :
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 HitByMacTruck (original poster new member #79301) posted at 3:34 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

Its a long story but I will try to summarize. Married for 21 years at the time of DDay.

-No kids, we tried

-Both mid 40's

-Not sure how relevant this is but she is the first and only woman I ever dated, kissed, had sex with.

-Wife didn't work most of marriage, problems started when she started working. I think she resented me asking her to get a job.

-First job I found out she was texting a customer, a lot. I didn't find a smoking gun as far as a affair but was a emotional affair at the least.

-Later on she got a new job, I ended up catching her in a emotional and physical affair. According to her sex was a onetime thing. She did this while I was out of town several days visiting a sick relative. I don't really believe at this point as far as the depth of the affair.

-Once I found out things blew up of course and she threatened to move in with her sister. I told her that was a good idea so she moved out the next day. We have been separated 3 years at this point.

-During the separation we still were in a relationship, it was very clear that we were still married and trying to figure out how to move forward.

-Over the 3 years I haven't once even had a conversation with another woman I wasn't related to or was work related. Haven't dated or tried to date etc.

-We tried marriage counseling at first and she completely derailed it, was a complete waste of money at $150 an hour for a top notch marriage counselor.

-During the separation within about the first year we talked about her moving back in several times and each time she derailed it over some small thing such as me saying she would need to work at least part time to help cover counseling and pay back some of the costs this ordeal has incurred.

-Over the 3 year period things seemed to be going better, she got counseling for herself, although it is all focused on her personally and not much to do with reconciling our marriage.

-She has been coming to stay at our house for a few days every few weeks and we meet for dinner, kind of like casually dating. We were planning a big trip at the end of this year.

-She agreed to turn on phone tracking for both of us and seemed like she was being transparent about things, letting me know she was going to visit a friend for dinner etc.

-No intimacy or sex since separation. IMO she should be the one to show some interest sexually after what happened, I may be wrong but it seems to me that she should be the one to reignite the flame at the beginning at least. I have done nothing indicating I don't want intimacy with her.

This has been the most excruciating and painful 3 years of my life, it broke me in ways I don't think will ever recover from and will haunt me the rest of my life. I went through a phase of about a year where every time I drove my car I noticed areas like trees, cement walls etc. and thought to myself I could just drive into it and it would look like accident and be less painful for my family to deal with, I never attempted or planned suicide but the thoughts where there regularly for a while, no more for over a year.

In the past 6 months or so, I finally started to get back to my old self and things were getting back on track. I have kept my job and life floating but haven't progressed much educationally and skill wise in the past three years. Picked up a mild drinking habit.

I can't go through this again. If I get divorced, I can't see ever getting married again, I might be able to get in a committed relationship though but I am so sensitive now about things like opposite sex friends it will probably ruin future relationships.

So this brings me to yesterday. Out of the blue I asked her if I could see her phone and I could see her immediately get nervous I never tried to force it or take her phone away or anything like that, I said it was her choice. She started quickly scrolling through her texts so I moved to where I could see her phone screen to make sure she didn't try to delete something. She finally pointed out a specific text and very hesitantly let me read it.

It was with a co-worker at her current job, a guy 15 years younger than her. It was flirty and not in tune with our past conversations of expectations of work relationships, but nothing obvious that something was going on. They were talking about things like shows to watch, work things, she started working from home a year ago and he mentioned that he really misses seeing her in the office, later he mentioned that they need to go out to lunch (sounded like it had been talked about before). A odd thing is there were no more texts after about 1.5 months ago, my first thoughts were...

-She deleted recent texts before I asked to look at the phone.

-She started using a different app to text that I did not get to check.

-Over the last year she goes into the office one day a week for a few hours to do paperwork that can't be done remotely so I thought maybe she was meeting this person then, no proof.

I tried looking at other apps, she was watching me the entire time, and she kept taking her phone back and didn't want to let me look.

She was visiting for a few days and I had to leave, she kept texting me that I kicked her out and forced her to move out, this is not true and attempting to rewrite history, I think she has mid to high BPD.

How in the world should I take this, things seemed like we were on track for her moving back in and getting back to a normal marriage but from 3 years ago these are all glaring red flags that are very similar to how the first dday unfolded. I noticed I have a weird issue with specificity with this stuff related to relationships. Originally I couldn't fully believe she cheated until she actually said it even though I had collected glaring evidence.

I really don't think I'm co-dependent, if anything pushing her to have responsibilities and take care of herself is when things started going down hill. But I struggle with the idea of ending it and her moving on with someone else.

How would you interpret this? Am I overreacting? I have that sinking gut feeling like I did 3 years ago, maybe just CPTSD. My first thought was its time to pull the plug and get divorced because she may have cheated again or is the start of a emotional affair. It's too late now to ask to see her phone again as she can just delete anything she wanted. It's so easy to hide things with tech today.

If this is a new issue I am really having a hard time grasping how she could lead me on and also be too friendly (at the least) with another guy.

Sorry, I meant for this to be a short post, its a lot to compact into a short statement. Thanks anyone who takes the time to read it.

[This message edited by HitByMacTruck at 3:40 PM, Wednesday, June 12th]

posts: 3   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8839387
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 5:23 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

Your wayward wife does not seem remorseful or wanting to work on getting the M back on track. You have been separated for 3 years and she balked at getting back together because you asked to help pay for counseling rolleyes

And you just found flirtatious texts on her phone.

Honestly if it were me, I would pull the plug. She's not initiating intimacy or an interest to work on herself or the M. You have already been separated for 3 years and what she is doing just isn't enough IMO. Reconciliation is hard work she should have been working hard on herself and proving to you she wants to be IN the M with you these last 3 years. Instead it's been more like 3 years of Limbo.

Why not file for D? Maybe she will pull her head out of her ... or maybe not. It takes some time from filing to finishing a D. I wouldn't bank on her changing though. I think you should work on detaching from her and living your life. Life is really great on the other side of this. I too thought I would never want to remarry but my stance has changed and I've met an incredible partner who has shown me what I should have been looking for all along.

fBS/fWS(me):51 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(21) DS(18)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorcing

posts: 8834   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8839398
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 6:44 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

What are you getting out of staying married to her? She's not a partner, a wife, or even a friend. You can't trust her. She's not interested in emotional or physical intimacy with you, but she is interested in being intimate with other people.

You say things seemed like they were getting back on track, but were they really?

I noticed I have a weird issue with specificity with this stuff related to relationships. Originally I couldn't fully believe she cheated until she actually said it even though I had collected glaring evidence.

We often see what we want to see, not the truth. Our minds have a story about how things are and will sometimes only recognize things that support that story. I experienced this as well. Badly. All the red flags were there for me all along, but they didn't line up with my story so I dismissed them. The tired old trope that "Denial is not just a river in Egypt" really tracks.

But I struggle with the idea of ending it and her moving on with someone else.

I 100% get this. We don't want to lose. But you're losing out on precious time that you could be spending at peace.

My recommendation is the same as crazyblindsided's. Move towards D. Speak to an attorney and get your ducks in a row. Your W is showing you that she's not interested in reconciling with you. She might want to maintain the status quo if she's getting certain benefits from being married, like health insurance or financial stability, but she's made it clear that she doesn't want to actually be your wife.

I'm sorry.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1335   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8839407
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 HitByMacTruck (original poster new member #79301) posted at 7:11 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

crazyblindsided
Reconciliation is hard work she should have been working hard on herself and proving to you she wants to be IN the M with you these last 3 years. Instead it's been more like 3 years of Limbo.
I think you should work on detaching from her and living your life. Life is really great on the other side of this. I too thought I would never want to remarry but my stance has changed and I've met an incredible partner who has shown me what I should have been looking for all along.

Thats exactly what it has been, 3 years of limbo, not only in the marriage but in my personal life. I am just grateful I have been able to keep myself afloat.

It's unfortunate, there is something in the back of my mind telling me its done.


SacredSoul33
I 100% get this. We don't want to lose. But you're losing out on precious time that you could be spending at peace.
My recommendation is the same as crazyblindsided's. Move towards D. Speak to an attorney and get your ducks in a row. Your W is showing you that she's not interested in reconciling with you. She might want to maintain the status quo if she's getting certain benefits from being married, like health insurance or financial stability, but she's made it clear that she doesn't want to actually be your wife.

That bothers me too. I'm 45 and still have many good years ahead of me but basically losing 3 years of my life eats at me and I don't want to keep in limbo.

The only thing that makes me thinks it was getting better is because she did personal counseling even though its not related to the marriage issue and we were doing more things together but I think I am just fooling myself. The reality is she has done very little in the way of actually working on reconciling between us. I asked her to read several books after the separation and after about a year she said she read one but never wanted to discuss it. As I type this out and thinking back about it I should have ended it a long time ago. I guess I had hope things would eventually work out.

In the past I never in a million years would have realize dealing with being betrayed was so difficult.

posts: 3   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8839408
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 7:18 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

You just don't know how it really is - or how you'd really react - until you're in it. And people think they have all the answers until they're the ones wearing the shoes. It's not an easy thing to navigate. I'm sorry you had to experience it.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1335   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8839410
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 12:09 AM on Thursday, June 13th, 2024

You have to draw a line. She broke a boundary. You tried, she failed.

Move on, she’s showing you who she really is not who you think or want her to be.

You’re still young and have the best part of
Your life ahead. You really want to retire with a serial cheater? And that’s what she is btw. She will cheat no matter who she is married to or with. It has nothing to do with you.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 488   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8839451
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 12:29 AM on Thursday, June 13th, 2024

Welcome to SI, man, the worst club I never want to leave.

To cut to the chase, I’ve been thru the wringer, I’ve read a lot of stories, from what I see your wife is a disaster that you have no reason to have any hope is going to become an acceptable partner. Her sense of entitlement, lack of vulnerability and empathy, all sustained over three years, it’s definitive, that is who she is.

Set yourself free, seek joy. You don’t need to worry today about whether you’d get remarried or not. Getting clear of your betrayer will help you heal and reframe things.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2186   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839452
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 7:54 AM on Thursday, June 13th, 2024

she did personal counseling even though its not related to the marriage issue

Do you have any inkling of what was discussed in these session? Just because she goes for IC does not mean she is no longer wayward in her thinking.

These session could have been a 'You go girl! You are strong! You are an amazing person!' self-empowerment sessions. This would build up the self-confidence of your WW, but not address the baggage, in which case, the session could exacerbate the underlying issues.

If your WW was not forthright with the IC, the wayward behaviour is not addressed, and could have been passed off as a lack of self-worth/confidence. IC would then work on the stated issue of low self-worth/confidence without addressing that the base issue, making your WW feel more that she is 'right' in her behaviour as her self-worth/confidence is shored up.

Might be a good idea to get your WW to spill the beans on what was discussed in her IC sessions.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 1157   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8839493
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:59 PM on Thursday, June 13th, 2024

i'm concerned that you seem to have done little in the way of advancing yourself and blame the infidelity for that. The infidelity happened. You can't change that. You can, however, decide how you will respond to the trauma of being betrayed.

Have you done any IC? If so, what outcomes did you expect? What outcomes did you seek? What outcomes did you experience? What have you done to heal yourself?

You can thrive even though you've been betrayed, but it takes effort from you. No one can do the work for you. What actions have you considered? What actions are you willing to do?

First, heal yourself. Then work with your W to define the M that you both want. If you can't agree on what the M will be, end it. If you do agree on an M that serves you both, great - start R.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30044   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8839521
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 7:35 PM on Thursday, June 13th, 2024

What do your family and friends think about your situation? What have they advised you to do?

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 2011   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8839542
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StillGoing ( member #28571) posted at 12:15 AM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

She's been cake eating for three years while you've been separated, dating and sleeping with who she wants while keeping a loyal husband on the hook.

180, get into IC. She is not going to be honest with you in your current situation.

If you divorce then you don't have to do anything you don't want to. Way back when I thought my wife and I were going to get divorced, well over a year into her affair that I had not yet discovered I had similar worries. I don't know how to talk to other women, we met at 16 and she is still my only at age 47, so I understand the kind of panic and even frightening feelings the idea of having to learn to be intimate with someone else. Then I came to the realization I didn't have to be with anyone I didn't want to be with or who would make me feel uncomfortable. Hell even just being alone without all that sounded like a great place to figure shit out without painful distractions.

For me it never got that far. I was ready to leave my marriage once I realized that even thoough being alone without the person who had supposedly been my best friend and confidant since I was a kid was absolutely terrifying, it couldn't get worse or be worse than the situation I was in.

You're not alone here, and it's okay to be alone out there for a little while until you feel safe again.

I strongly recommend finding a professional you can trust with your feelings to help. Be safe man.

Tempus Fuckit.

- Ricky

posts: 7918   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8839574
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 HitByMacTruck (original poster new member #79301) posted at 6:12 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

@RocketRaccoon
She’s talked to me about it in some detail. Her IC was cheated on and has experience with reconciling but WW has mostly talked about dealing with her own personal issues, a lot of it is about self esteem issues and child hood trauma. I mentioned to her that one of the main points for IC is to deal with what happened. It’s not uncommon for her to stick her head in the sand and hope it goes away for things she knows she is at fault for.


@sisoon
That’s one thing that bothers me. I’ve been stagnant and need to get things moving again. I always have high expectations for myself )career, health etc.), always do my best to keep moving onward and forward, and this issue put that part of me in a coma.

I went to IC soon after and it helped a lot just dealing with the initial trauma but I have been thinking about going back for more of a "get your goals back on track and deal with the trauma" type thing.

It bothers me its effected me this much, I’ve always been the pillar of the family that could deal with tough issues with no problem but this broke me and now I feel like a athelet that broke his legs and is sitting on the sideline watching the game, I don’t know if I have some type of OCD or ADHD or some type of thing that makes you ruminate too much but its another reason to go to IC.

My father also passed away last August in a freak car accident and it has not helped things for me mentally at all either especially since I always knew I could talk to him and get good balanced feedback, I really haven’t thought much about the combined effects of the things going on.


@BluerThanBlue
Only my immediate family knows the details and they have been supportive of me and I think bit their tongue until I figured out how I want to move forward.

@StillGoing
That’s very similar to how I have thought. Our early marriage was really difficult navigating certain issues with her and I guess in my mind I imagined every relationship went through the same growing pains but I see things differently now and not everyone has big blow up issues, honestly I probably should have divorced after the first year of marriage (not related to infidelity type stuff), a lot of red flags that I am now aware of but at the time we were in a very religious Church that put guilt and shame on people for getting divorced for any reason. It did get better after a while and we have had a lot of good times together and then this happened and it was like being hit by a truck so to speak.

posts: 3   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8839748
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:29 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Its a long story but I will try to summarize. Married for 21 years at the time of DDay.

-No kids, we tried

You're no spring chicken but it isn't too late if you find another partner. I'm going to go through the rest of the post, but my recommendation for people without significant practical entanglements like children or a business is to run.

-Both mid 40's

-Not sure how relevant this is but she is the first and only woman I ever dated, kissed, had sex with.

Extremely relevant I would say. You lack any point of comparison and so you are willing to accept crumbs. Hell you might have never had a full slice of cake in your life.

-Wife didn't work most of marriage, problems started when she started working. I think she resented me asking her to get a job.

What exactly was she contributing as a stay at home wife before this? No kids...

-First job I found out she was texting a customer, a lot. I didn't find a smoking gun as far as a affair but was a emotional affair at the least.

-Later on she got a new job, I ended up catching her in a emotional and physical affair. According to her sex was a onetime thing. She did this while I was out of town several days visiting a sick relative. I don't really believe at this point as far as the depth of the affair.

-Once I found out things blew up of course and she threatened to move in with her sister. I told her that was a good idea so she moved out the next day. We have been separated 3 years at this point.

Your marriage is broken and essentially over. You probably provide significant utility to her (based on your story and that you are bringing in the income that she is presumably living off of). What does she provide to you?

-During the separation we still were in a relationship, it was very clear that we were still married and trying to figure out how to move forward.

How was it clear that you were still married functionally and trying to move forward? What marital activities were you involved in?

-Over the 3 years I haven't once even had a conversation with another woman I wasn't related to or was work related. Haven't dated or tried to date etc.

-We tried marriage counseling at first and she completely derailed it, was a complete waste of money at $150 an hour for a top notch marriage counselor.

-During the separation within about the first year we talked about her moving back in several times and each time she derailed it over some small thing such as me saying she would need to work at least part time to help cover counseling and pay back some of the costs this ordeal has incurred.

She's just not that in to you.

-Over the 3 year period things seemed to be going better, she got counseling for herself, although it is all focused on her personally and not much to do with reconciling our marriage.

-She has been coming to stay at our house for a few days every few weeks and we meet for dinner, kind of like casually dating. We were planning a big trip at the end of this year.

-She agreed to turn on phone tracking for both of us and seemed like she was being transparent about things, letting me know she was going to visit a friend for dinner etc.

-No intimacy or sex since separation. IMO she should be the one to show some interest sexually after what happened, I may be wrong but it seems to me that she should be the one to reignite the flame at the beginning at least. I have done nothing indicating I don't want intimacy with her.

More like buying/making someone dinner once every few weeks if there is no intimacy. Or is she making the dinner?

What is the trip for? Why?

This has been the most excruciating and painful 3 years of my life, it broke me in ways I don't think will ever recover from and will haunt me the rest of my life. I went through a phase of about a year where every time I drove my car I noticed areas like trees, cement walls etc. and thought to myself I could just drive into it and it would look like accident and be less painful for my family to deal with, I never attempted or planned suicide but the thoughts where there regularly for a while, no more for over a year.

In the past 6 months or so, I finally started to get back to my old self and things were getting back on track. I have kept my job and life floating but haven't progressed much educationally and skill wise in the past three years. Picked up a mild drinking habit.

I recommend you stop drinking. At least as a bad habbit. I'm not saying you need to be totally sober, but that's easier for some people.

I can't go through this again. If I get divorced, I can't see ever getting married again, I might be able to get in a committed relationship though but I am so sensitive now about things like opposite sex friends it will probably ruin future relationships.

Sample size is one here. You've got basically no idea what a healthy relationship is like. You have only had the one, dysfunctional, lopsided relationship with your current abuser.

So this brings me to yesterday. Out of the blue I asked her if I could see her phone and I could see her immediately get nervous I never tried to force it or take her phone away or anything like that, I said it was her choice. She started quickly scrolling through her texts so I moved to where I could see her phone screen to make sure she didn't try to delete something. She finally pointed out a specific text and very hesitantly let me read it.

It was with a co-worker at her current job, a guy 15 years younger than her. It was flirty and not in tune with our past conversations of expectations of work relationships, but nothing obvious that something was going on. They were talking about things like shows to watch, work things, she started working from home a year ago and he mentioned that he really misses seeing her in the office, later he mentioned that they need to go out to lunch (sounded like it had been talked about before). A odd thing is there were no more texts after about 1.5 months ago, my first thoughts were...

-She deleted recent texts before I asked to look at the phone.

-She started using a different app to text that I did not get to check.

-Over the last year she goes into the office one day a week for a few hours to do paperwork that can't be done remotely so I thought maybe she was meeting this person then, no proof.

Considering she is a proven liar, it's safe to go with your gut here.

I tried looking at other apps, she was watching me the entire time, and she kept taking her phone back and didn't want to let me look.

She is actively hiding something.

She was visiting for a few days and I had to leave, she kept texting me that I kicked her out and forced her to move out, this is not true and attempting to rewrite history, I think she has mid to high BPD.

How in the world should I take this, things seemed like we were on track for her moving back in and getting back to a normal marriage but from 3 years ago these are all glaring red flags that are very similar to how the first dday unfolded. I noticed I have a weird issue with specificity with this stuff related to relationships. Originally I couldn't fully believe she cheated until she actually said it even though I had collected glaring evidence.

Nothing is back on track. You are so far from a normal marriage. You are a fully boiled frog that thinks a sous vide bath isn't cooking you.

I really don't think I'm co-dependent, if anything pushing her to have responsibilities and take care of herself is when things started going down hill. But I struggle with the idea of ending it and her moving on with someone else.

How would you interpret this? Am I overreacting? I have that sinking gut feeling like I did 3 years ago, maybe just CPTSD. My first thought was its time to pull the plug and get divorced because she may have cheated again or is the start of a emotional affair. It's too late now to ask to see her phone again as she can just delete anything she wanted. It's so easy to hide things with tech today.

You have no frame of reference and you are just trying to make things work. That's a noble effort, but you don't see that your wife is your enemy.

If this is a new issue I am really having a hard time grasping how she could lead me on and also be too friendly (at the least) with another guy.

Sorry, I meant for this to be a short post, its a lot to compact into a short statement. Thanks anyone who takes the time to read it.

Your marriage stinks, and you should get a divorce.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2672   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8839777
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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 2:57 PM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

Only one of you has been separated, and it’s not you. You have been as attached as ever.


For three years she has been living life and you've been…waiting. On pause.

IMO she should be the one to show some interest sexually after what happened

You are just playing games, while getting played. She’s better at manipulating than you are.

Sisoon

i'm concerned that you seem to have done little in the way of advancing yourself and blame the infidelity for that.


Indeed

It looks like you’ve put on the victim mindset, and it fits so nicely you don’t want to take it off. You know who you are, you are her victim. If you are comfortable there, keep playing the game. She seems accommodating.

But it won’t change until you force it.

Sending strength!

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 3252   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8839844
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:04 AM on Sunday, June 16th, 2024

Start putting yourself first and stop being held hostage by someone who is a lying cheating coward.

I’d bet the ranch she’s still cheating and has been the past 3 years.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13971   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8839884
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