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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 12:32 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

Yeah, I almost asked about SA. It’s so personal that I didn’t want to drag that up this early into things. I don’t think you are going to find a therapist that won’t ask you that. An affair is sexual in nature and some people have them to relive the abuse in some ways. It’s just going to be a question, but I trust she has other signs of being a pearl clutcher.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8840044
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 12:37 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I get that, but it wasn't related to the affair it was related to my "unconventional" sex history. I didn’t feel very comfortable talking to her about it and I felt like she wasn't comfortable either.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840046
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 12:39 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

That's why I'm switching! I feel like she's giving me a pass. She actually told me ppl who are rigid (my husband) get cheated on more often!

Wow, if that is true, she could also have made better assumptions about blame - that opposites attract. Someone rigid might be very attracted to and marry someone who is fun. Unwittingly selecting them not realizing what could go into the being fun. But sometimes people are fun because they don’t have a lot of inhibitions. And that can result in a lack of boundaries and have other traits that are not conducive to a marriage.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8840047
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 12:49 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I really can’t believe that you have the audacity to go to marriage counseling without blocking your AP. Just saying "oh he said he won’t contact me and I don’t want to hurt his feelings so that’s good enough" is absolutely ludicrous.

R is all or none. I get it, I’m a stranger on the internet, as is everyone on SI, so do whatever. If you don’t have the ability to do whatever it takes to prevent AP from reaching out to you (yes of course he can always find a way you can’t control that, but you should be doing everything in your power, you should be wanting to do everything possible to prevent it), you are never going to R. Ignore me and everyone else who is telling you this, as we say F around and find out.

Right now you are in the F around stage. Just like the affair where you never thought you would be caught and find out, sooner or later you will find out why this step is necessary. It’s non negotiable for R to even have a chance. Your complete lack of self awareness and stubbornness to this point only shows how useless MC is.

Every affair recovery platform differs a lot for how to actually R. None of them say that keeping a secret and a door open to AP will help.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 503   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8840048
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 12:52 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I don't. I'm nervous. Therapist told me don't sweat the first session. He still hasn't wanted to talk about it and therapist is saying it's a form of passive aggressiveness

Goals are important to make therapy effective. Understandable to have some uncertainty going into a first session, but get clarity on that quickly. And remember, DO NOT attempt to use this MC to fix the marriage before addressing the affair. It won’t work, it will make things worse.

And assigning passive aggressiveness to a traumatized person is complete bullshit. This therapist sounds like she was trying to be your bff instead of doing her job.

So did you block him yet?

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8840049
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 1:38 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I’m certain that even affairrecovery has a video that covers the specific topic of No Contact with AP, and why you should and what it means. I’ve been around infidelity land a long time, over 2 years, I have been to just about every sight/resource/book/blog you can find.

There are a few podcasts/youtube channels and websites that are made by women who as affairs, who claim to have fully recovered and reconciled, and they all say the same thing.

Every WS on this forum will tell you the same thing, in fact the ones who have commented on your post have said it.

I don’t care at all if you d or R, not my lane, not anything I can offer you advice on. What I can’t stand because i went through the hell of it myself is pretending to R while still keeping AP above your BH. That was the most depressing, demeaning, and just disgusting time of my life. Pretending to R all the while holding AP above me, saying that his feelings mattered more than mine, after 5 kids and 20 years of marriage. And again, you haven’t even told your BH this, still keeping him in the dark. Still keeping control for yourself.

As what hiking out said, just grow the hell up and actually face yourself and the consequences of your actions. Do something instead of wasting time and waiting for others to guide you.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 503   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8840053
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 2:31 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I feel like I'm in a different situation than what is common. We just had a conversation about marriage expectations, sex with each other/outside marriage and how I went about stepping out all wrong. He isn't interested in the affair at all but moving forward with how we can incorporate that kind of lifestyle in our marriage.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840056
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 2:46 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

Yeah, ok that’s fair enough. If that’s the path you’re both going then yes everything I have said doesn’t really apply, and won’t really matter much for you.

Open marriages and all of that is way beyond anything I know.

I will admit, no you’re not in a normal affair recovery situation.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 503   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8840058
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 3:32 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I hope ppl don't feel they wasted their time on me. This is not even where I expected this to go. I do take everything here to heart and know I have alot to do to work on myself. We plan to stick with therapy, both individual and marriage. I'm feeling really hopeful that as long as we keep communication open and I identify and address if/when I start pulling away again we'll be ok.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840062
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 3:50 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

But your husband has expectations about the affair partner, doesn’t he, like no contact and that he will never be around the kids again ever?

That would be a boundary, wouldn’t it? Nothing in the home and completely removed from the kids?

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 364   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8840063
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 4:13 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

But your husband has expectations about the affair partner, doesn’t he, like no contact and that he will never be around the kids again ever?

That would be a boundary, wouldn’t it? Nothing in the home and completely removed from the kids?

I'm not sure about forever. It hasn't come up yet. I am not planning to reach out to him anyway since I'm pretty certain he wouldn't approve of our arrangement. Also bc of the way I handled it I wouldn't even ask my husband about him as a possibility. I think it's best to start fresh. We will need to have a whole new set of boundaries and fo it right this time. I'm also wondering if we should find a mc who is knowledgeable in unconventional marriages.

[This message edited by Elliebellie at 4:16 AM, Tuesday, June 18th]

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840065
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 4:18 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

Ellie, you can’t retroactively un-betray your husband! I don’t give a shit if your husband is trying to think that way, it will never work. You can’t change the rules after the betrayal to undo the trauma!

I’m pissed right now. I know that doesn’t matter, but I am. If this is honestly what you are going to talk about, I’m out.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8840066
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 4:24 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

Ellie, you can’t retroactively un-betray your husband! I don’t give a shit if your husband is trying to think that way, it will never work. You can’t change the rules after the betrayal to undo the trauma!

I’m pissed right now. I know that doesn’t matter, but I am. If this is honestly what you are going to talk about, I’m out.

I'm sorry. I'm not planning to post anymore unless ppl have questions.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840067
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 5:23 AM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I apologize for using profanity in that charged emotional post. To you Ellie, and everyone, I expect better from myself.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8840069
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 1:36 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I apologize for using profanity in that charged emotional post. To you Ellie, and everyone, I expect better from myself.

No need to apologize to me :) It's been a roller coaster the last week and clearly there are a lot of emptions. I'm sorry for the chaos, dragging everyone all over the place with my weird life. I don't think this is the site for me. You've all been amazing and insightful and I'm going to strive to be someone with purpose and intent.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840076
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 2:35 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I am finally caught up on your thread.

I feel like I'm in a different situation than what is common. We just had a conversation about marriage expectations, sex with each other/outside marriage and how I went about stepping out all wrong. He isn't interested in the affair at all but moving forward with how we can incorporate that kind of lifestyle in our marriage.

If I understand you correctly, what you are talking about is what is called an "open" marriage... right?

If that is the case, then I don't understand anything about that sort of marriage.

What I am about to say is not meant to be judgmental or a condemnation. What other people do with their lives is no concern of mine as long as what they do doesn't affect me in any way.

In my opinion, an "open" marriage is not really a marriage, but a situation where two people are "shacking up" for the convenience of finances, children, taxes, etc. I am between 80 and 90 years of age, so I am very traditional and conventional. I have always believed in the bibical sense that when two people marry they become "one" in a spiritual sense. Opening up the marriage to have sex with other people sort of does away with that concept altogether. I don't mean to bring religion into the discussion, but that is the best way for me to describe my belief.

Sorry if that feels like I am judging you because I am not. How you want to live your life is your business, not mine.

I have two questions.

One, do you expect that your husband will also have sex with other women? Has he ever done this since you two have been married? If not, how are you going to feel about that? I remember an episode on the tv series "House". An ill women was in an open marriage. She became shocked when she found out that her husband wasn't even entertaining the idea of going outside their marriage because he loved her too much to do that.

Was this open marriage thing your idea or your husbands? It is hard for me to believe that both of you are equally enthusiastic about this concept.

Second, how do you think your children will feel about this situation when they get older? When they see Mom getting all dressed up to go out and fuck another man? What if they overhear a conversation where one of their friends is calling one of your children's mom a slut or something similar, just because their friends have "Betty Crocker" for a mom... like my mother was and my wife is? Have you and your husband thought about how you will handle that conversation with them?

In these situations I worry about how we go about influencing our children when we raise them. What values and beliefs we instill in them with both our actions and words. They might grow up to believe that "open" marriages are the norm until they get out in the world on their own and discover differently. Then they are really going to be fucked up when they find out their mom and dad are in the minority with their style of marriage.

Good luck to both your and your husband.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 2:49 PM, Tuesday, June 18th]

posts: 286   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8840078
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 3:06 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I wish you well. I fear you are walking a path that will just take your deeper into the pain, or worse into numbness, but for your sake I hope I’m wrong. Best to you, your husband, your kids, and even your AP.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8840081
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 4:29 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I am not sure if you will come and read this but i will just say I hope you work on your marriage greatly before opening it up to other people. From what I know that sort of lifestyle requires good communication, boundaries, ethics , a mutual sense of adventure, and a relationship with a strong foundarion. If your MC goes along with this I would be 100 percent surprised.

The reality is it feels like you don’t want things to get better. You betrayed your husband and now in efforts to keep the marriage he is trying to consider a marriage set up that he really never seemed to want to begin with. That’s called the pick me dance.

I think one of you are going to meet someone else in this situation and get a divorce.

My husband and I dabbled in that lifestyle before we got married, and so this is not me being judgemental. It feels this is just another way for you to escape accountability rather than build a strong intimate loving marriage.

But we all have free will/ I am sure there are many lurkers who did benefit from our messages, so I don’t see it as wasted time. I just feel disappointed that this was the solution that you settled in, I feel like I would have been happier to hear you decided to divorce him. Somehow that would seem more authentic and responsible.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:34 PM, Tuesday, June 18th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8840083
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 4:55 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

Second, how do you think your children will feel about this situation when they get older? When they see Mom getting all dressed up to go out and fuck another man? What if they overhear a conversation where one of their friends is calling one of your children's mom a slut or something similar, just because their friends have "Betty Crocker" for a mom... like my mother was and my wife is? Have you and your husband thought about how you will handle that conversation with them?

I understand. Some ppl will think it's unhealthy for the children but we're living in an age where gender is fluid (whether you ascribe to that or not) and there is so much emphasis on self preservation and worth that I think the kids today are so far ahead of us in terms of bodily autonomy, not marrying for security (or at all), and making sure their mental health is priority. I think for them to see their parents happy and respectful takes precedence over what happens outside the home. If there is respect and boundaries we're teaching our kids the same. It doesn't mean we have to live piously or biblically in our relationship. Like I've said, there are a lot of affairs here and that is more disrespectful behavior than an open marriage, imo. Our community is very open, our friend group is very supportive, and I'm not going to worry if someone chooses to use the term slut to describe me bc that says more about them and their misogyny than about me. That's not even a term i hear anymore. What's the male in the equation then? Just a regular guy? It's none of my childrens' business what my husband and I do just like I wouldn't discuss our sex life with them. When the time comes, we will be discreet and choose ppl who are trustworthy so not sure why any kids would know. Our children are being brought up as open minded, accepting ppl. I can't imagine they'd even bat an eye if later on they knew we are/were in an open marriage. I hope they wouldn't judge bc we didn't raise them that way. Of course some kids grow up to be the opposite of their parents and choose to be more conservative in their beliefs.

[This message edited by Elliebellie at 5:00 PM, Tuesday, June 18th]

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840084
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 5:05 PM on Tuesday, June 18th, 2024

I am not sure if you will come and read this but i will just say I hope you work on your marriage greatly before opening it up to other people. From what I know that sort of lifestyle requires good communication, boundaries, ethics , a mutual sense of adventure, and a relationship with a strong foundarion.

Yes, we are not opening it up until we both feel secure in the marriage, that means I need to work on why I didn't communicate with my husband before having the affair and why his mo is to bliw up at us. We are already so much more attentive with each other. We had sex again last night, which was much better, and we are planning things we want to do over the summer. The kids can see we're getting along, the house is calmer, and my middle child seems happier. I'm feeling really hopeful.

Getting divorced was a knee jerk reaction. All my emotions flood in at once and I get really fixated on them but I need to remember tat if I give it 2 weeks usually things are clearer and what felt like an emergency is actually not.

[This message edited by Elliebellie at 5:07 PM, Tuesday, June 18th]

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8840086
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